Abducted - kicking the horse

Originally posted by DeadLights
Pub Med Health

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it hard to:

Tell the difference between what is real and not real

Think clearly

Have normal emotional responses

Act normally in social situations

Holy crap are you not reading what it is saying...C'mon use your brain.

Having all those symptoms makes you schizo..not just one or two.

The major one is "difference between what is real and not real" if you are not under the influence of drugs then yes..that would be an issue.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


If you go to the link I provided and take in all the information you can clearly see that it wouldn't be hard to diagnose some random person off the street with it.

Basically schizophrenia is this. Adhd,Insomnia,Add,Depression,Manic Depression,Aspergers, and many other commonly known "illnesses" or mental disorders.

The fact that the medicine given for schizophrenia is more detrimental then beneficial and actually causes the person to be more "schizo" is proof that is b/s. Sorry man!

Hey there astro-arachnid :-D,thanks for this thread,s+f.Good info,and in a nice cohesive form.You go right ahead+flog that dead horse,there's plenty of interested people who'll enjoy this thread.The case of Jason Andrews interests me most,i happened to pick up the paperback copy of "Abduction" by Ann Andrews and Jean Ritchie,at my local SPCA charity shop some months ago,which was a very synchronistic thing in itself,in relation to a personal matter.Thanks again,have a good day.

reply to post by Druscilla

I would think that statistically,there are many people who confuse "abduction memories" with dreams,and in some cases,delusions brought about by mental illness or drug use/flights of fancy.However,when you look at the over-all picture,statistically speaking,logic tells me that there are cases where the people claiming abduction had No record of mental illness or drug/alcohol use.Sane normal regular boring everyday people.You have every right to bring your schizophrenia theory as an explanation for the abduction phenomenon,but logic should tell you-it cannot possibly account for all,or maybe even half of all the reports.I have read some of the articles you provided links to,during google searches,its not to be dismissed,that's for sure.But its also not to be dismissed that there are cases that defy the explanations provided in these articles.

nice post, good source of books/some info as I'm a newbe ISBE.
Survery recommends I should seriously consider looking into the possibility of alien abduction, which i already knew. Star and flag.

Originally posted by Raxoxane
reply to post by Druscilla

 

I would think that statistically,there are many people who confuse "abduction memories" with dreams,and in some cases,delusions brought about by mental illness or drug use/flights of fancy.However,when you look at the over-all picture,statistically speaking,logic tells me that there are cases where the people claiming abduction had No record of mental illness or drug/alcohol use.Sane normal regular boring everyday people.You have every right to bring your schizophrenia theory as an explanation for the abduction phenomenon,but logic should tell you-it cannot possibly account for all,or maybe even half of all the reports.I have read some of the articles you provided links to,during google searches,its not to be dismissed,that's for sure.But its also not to be dismissed that there are cases that defy the explanations provided in these articles.

Please RE-READ my initial post.
Re-read it carefully.
Re-read it carefully and take special note that I do NOT say anything about Schizophrenia.

I DO mention Schizotypy, but, there's a big difference between Schizotypy and Schizophrenia.

Someone else here that understands nothing about a diagnosis except what they've read online started beating on the Schizophrenia drum.

Please click the links in my initial post for Schizotypy.
There are some relations and similarities to Schizophrenia, but, if you pay attention, you'll notice there's such a thing as a "Healthy" Schizotypy, and that in many cases Schizotypy can actually be quite beneficial to a subject such that many that have it will not, in fact, have any histories of Mental Health concern.

If you paid attention to my post and read it carefully, you may in fact learn something rather interesting.

The hypothesis that these experiences are due to psychosis or other various psychiatric disorders is pretty strong.

There is the element of cohesiveness between the stories, even when they come from people of many backgrounds, many parts of the world, different age groups, even ones not exposed to modern popular american mythology.

This has always raised the question in my own mind about the possibility of archetypes within the collective subconscious. When they arise in individuals who are not consciously aware of these figures beforehand, that gives these "entities" almost a life of their own. They could be thought forms created by others, but once infecting the collective subconscious, they can arise and have an effect on anyone who is vulnerable. -Anyone with unstable ego borders, anyone who is especially receptive to their subconscious.......

In that sort of a case, it really wouldn't matter whether they were created by man or not; for we can be victim of our own creations. (even if it is someone elses creations)

My mother once told me that a huge percentage of child molestation/incest accusations were actually false memories. But in the end, in the long run, the psychological damage remains the same whether they are false memories or not. So from the standpoint of the therapist, it makes no difference whether they are false or real.
(that question only becomes relevant from a legal point of view, if charges were being brought against someone, for example).

That always made me think the same thing applies here. Especially if you add in what we know about the placebo effect.

(.....it also leads into the meaning of memory itself and our capacity to create alternate pasts, according to what we want to experience now... )



One aspect that is curious though is that for the most part, the phenomenon has stopped, just as it became very widespread in media. In fact, the myth seems to have sprung from the experiences, rather than the other way around. If people were imagining abductions because they were influenced by hearing about abductions, then we'd be seeing a huge wave of them now.
But that is not the case.

Most of the abductees I know had their experiences stop inexplicably around 1998-2002.
I see there are cases listed in the OP after that time. The people I am in touch with did not generally go for any publishing or exposure, nor any hypnosis. (the hynosis cases always make me suspicious of planted memories, purposeful or not. It is always the doctor or therapist that chooses to open the case to the public).

Hey all
Just wanted to add this newer 42 min documentary about the subject


Peace

Here is another great documentary


Enjoy

They have not stopped. That seems to be a myth that is circulating in the face of many many countless abductions. They do run in families, ie if an adult is abducted, and has odd recollections, dreams or events, their children will too. They are very monitored by the military. ie. you mention about contact to some online "friends" who befriended over the ufo issue to begin with and usually were ex military, but had injuries and had to recover, or other experiencers with friends in bases in Germany, kind of odd how quickly you pick up interesting friends. And scout planes fly around out back for a couple days, joined by a TR3B, that one flying right your house, very low. Scout planes is a term used for something very odd, and not like any other day in years of being at that location. Two planes arriving same location, flying close together, and just scouting around out back, not traveling anywhere, just doing circles in the valley behind your place, then the pair leaves the way it came, while another pair come out. And the surveillance doesn't stop.

I suggest that people quit allowing this suppression and speak up freely about everything they've encountered. With so many dark hats posting, who have no reason to do more than mention their "opinion" once or twice and if they really have nothing insightful to say, should perhaps find another thread, people need to choose. Talk UFO's elsewhere, or really talk mind boggling stuff.

As for schizophrenia. I wanted to be a psychiatric nurse when I was younger. But not actually strong enough for some of the work, did a practicum with the elderly and couldn't do the lifting/hoisting parts. Two that I know who have this, one is accute, she responds well to medication and is a writer. I've never seen her off her medication, though apparently like many, she has once in a while done that, which is a common problem. The old fashioned meds work for her, so low side affects, and she's not an abductee to her knowledge.

An elderly woman who's had this diagnosis for decades, chronic. She never has this go away and has been on many types of medications. Her family has a very hard time dealing with it. While some kind of sight into other realms is possible, the condition does not make her talk about ETs or UFO's. In fact she considers everything "angels". She has such strong symptoms she can't watch the news, no longer sews, reads books, does anything really. Nor does she think or respond logically, in fact, almost stuck in a grove repeating patterns. If she has a toothache its because a witch used a weapon in her mouth.

Bi polar, something else. My ex has something that runs in his family, his aunt and his son. He didn't get diagnosed, he's borderline, but his son, my sons half brother, was bipolar. Their symptoms are paranoia at times.

In the people I've met, and knew, never actually saw anything that fits one or more people sharing sightings or experiencing abductions.

Oh, as for sharing sightings. We don't share brains, so no, that isn't mental illness either.

During one our abductions, I first of all knew it was going to happen, tried to stay up, but was overcome by sleep. The covers move and felt hands and was given a choice, sleep or stay awake. I chose sleep.

Next morning, my then 18 possibly, son, reported missing time while he was up. Waited to watch a late night show, the room spun, he spun and turned to the xbox, and the show that show that was just beginning was long past and it was an hour later. He's had 2 hours missing time while in the kitchen using the toaster oven to make a grilled cheese that normally took around 5-7 minutes maximum. He was also waiting for a show, and the ads were on. He came out 2 hours later and the show was over.

Over a year later, someone who wasn't told about the circumstances on ATS, asked me if I saw them in the kitchen with my son and knew about the missing time.

There are some very good posters on ATS, some with interesting information, such as someone who told me quite a bit about my family, and if I had seen a craft only I could see (affirmative as well as the others) despite the very negative ones.

Throwing around mental illness diagnoses as if you have the credentials to do so, and using the word as a catchall for all people who experience the real world, (example, the anglican and catholic priests I spoke with told me half the congregation attended because they had experienced Spirit/God, miracles, healing and felt the Connection, versus the other half that merely went out of family tradition), should be illegal actually. Also, everyone would be delusional by their definition instead of waking up, and taking note that many humans don't fit their version of reality, so maybe they need to change their version of reality and open up windows in their tightly shut dark little boxes.

Another point, usually the ones throwing these words around don't even know what those diagnosed with those conditions live like, how most aren't talking UFO's and abductions, but demons, angels, witches, zeus and gods of old, and lots of insects, even giant spiders in their living rooms. Chronic or accute (accute means the condition comes and goes and responds well to medication) they don't see ET as a reality. And those who are more chronic, that the meds don't work well for, and therefore still experience "hallucinations" usually don't write well, and their day by day living is highly compromised.

Maybe they should volunteer to help out some real families dealing with it, and give them breaks, to educate themselves. If they don't already have friends and aquaintances caretaking this problem.

Well since adbuctees are often well spoken, and can function in the real world, though if you watch any of Dr. Turner's videos, the fear based things do tend to stress out families. The names being diagnosed by unqualified skeptics and bullies, aren't a good fit.

Maybe these unqualified doctors posting all over the board should invent a special new category of mental illness. All UFO experiencers, and list symptoms, shared sightings with family (obviously its an inherited gene and despite the hallucination, they still magically see the same thing, so for a while they share brains), with other odd similarities, such as imaginary missing time and memories of abductions. And dreams of being aboard UFO's.

Oh, and another idea. Perhaps those kind of skeptics who are so interested in labeling everyone with a mental illness, should pursue the topic in a thread all of its own, and respect others who don't share their belief on UFO threads, where they might want to watch and discuss matters at hand.

Such as the video in the OP.

Giving it a go finally this morning, its a bit long, didn't have time, but making time now.

reply to post by Unity_99


Okay, well I will re-phrase- they have stopped for me and my family. They have stopped for the people who I know who had similar experiences.

I slowly developed stronger and stronger aptitude at focusing emotional energy and was able to push them away, and taught my kid to do it too.

The military associations you bring up are an interesting factor though! When our experiences went public I was contacted by all kidns of people and researchers, one of them was a guy who was researching a lien he had found between people having these experiences and their parents or grandparents having been in the US military and involved in experiments. I waved his idea off, but later ended up finding some pretty suggestive stuff about both my maternal and paternal grandfathers that raises some questions there.

What is strange too is that nobody in the family had thought to ask any questions- how a soldier with no education past the age of 14 was integrated into work in the Los Alamos laboratory, and ended up working with some famous scientists? .. and his path after that gets more full of holes, up until becoming a multimillionaire and selling his company to Lockheed Martin.

Neither my mother nor my father ever noticed that their fathers had been stationed in New Mexico at the exact same time either. Considering my mom was born there, I would think they would have noticed that at some point.

But her father got "weird" there. When he got out, he was obsessed with psychic phenomenon and sat the family down to teach them this stuff every night.

I'm rambling...... didn't mean to go so far. I just am often bothered by a bunch of suspicious discrepencies in the family history too.

what ticks me off is the complete arrogance of "abduction victims" who completely discount the possibility of an explanation when presented from a scientific standpoint. I have a gut feeling that many of these people hold-true to their "experience" because it's something that sets them apart from everyone else in their hum-drum, boring and non-affected social-life. Believing in what they claim happened to them lets them think they're different and to present fact-based scientific possibilities for that comes across as an insult.
I feel the same way about the Near Death Experience people as well


Yes....we know something extraordinary happened to you. You say that you want nothing more than to UNDERSTAND what it was. Here......have a serving of "possible" explanations that we found based on scientific research and tests. What....you don't like that? Well then...why the F did you even ASK for help in trying to understand what happened.

reply to post by TXRabbit


They don't need that scientific explanation. They already know, have stood there with family AND FRIENDs and wtinessed and experienced. They're putting together what the shills trying to control this, are doing all they can to muddy waters on.

And some of them already out perform most of the professionals they've ever met for logic, also for awareness of their world they're in since they were young. They're the ones correcting doctors, bringing in printouts from university/harvard research to get their meds changed, ie my synthroid changed to dessicated, and have to do a lot of leg work educating the so called health care professionals.

And a hell of a difference between family sharing a sighting, someone seeing a grey, and next morning, 2 recalling very odd things from memory glimpses to missing time and this one very saintly by the way, almost an archangel herself (I actually have a lot more respect for schizophrenics for having known this woman by the way and even think we dont really know alot about things medically, could be a really calcified pineal and distorted looks into other realms). Though she has seen ufos, she considers them fallen angels. She sees thousands of projections of everybody, there is not one of you, there are many of you, and she is nonstop battling and lecturing and attempting to convert all the angels, and Zeus, who is the ultimate evil of the universe in her books and talks to God nonstop to create healing gardens for all those fallen ones. Quite a Woman. Not into Ufology though. And very difficult to live with from her family. Wakes up screaming in the night, every illness or physical symptoms is a witch or demon/angel using weapons in her. She gags on food because of the weapons in her throat.

Really really really, give it up. You don't have the qualification to diagnose people. Nor the right to condescendingly tell experiencers they should accept the mundane scientists, they are so arrogant if they don't. Whereas the arrogant shoe belongs on someone else's foot.

I had thought ATS had gone beyond very tiresome wash, rinse, repeat type of bullying. Apparently a new wave of the same abusive skeptics has emerged.

This isn't delusion.

In fact there is some humor to be had in knowing that everyone experiences this, often without knowing, according to some of the great minds on this subject, such as John Lear, and Sleeper. And his other information is right on, so I trust him on that one.

Makes me wonder what is under the wraps on so much attacks on ufology information. Something that needs a little soul searching perhaps, a little healing up.

Originally posted by DeadLights

I don't know if you know this but schizophrenia does not exist. It's an excuse to get rid of targeted individuals who may "spook" the sheep out of the farmers pasture.

The clue is in the side effects of the medicine they prescribe also the clue is in the symptom. Believing a reality that is not reality. Who doesn't do this?

Umm, yes it does exist. You are being ignorant. My wife was schizophrenic, and certainly was not "targeted". She had a brain hemmorrhage and her schizophrenia went, she was also under no illusion about the reality of her condition, she was quite clear that she was mentally ill.

No conspiracy about it, just mental illness caused by a physical brain abnormality (in this case, a blood clot played a part).

reply to post by mcrom901


Hey mcrom, good to see you.

I have always thought that plasmas seem to fit the classic abduction scenario rather well. A hovering light that can cause a vehicle to stop running, as well as potentially causing a mind altering state. Interesting stuff indeed.

Originally posted by DeadLights
Pub Med Health

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it hard to:

Tell the difference between what is real and not real

Think clearly

Have normal emotional responses

Act normally in social situations

Common side effects from antipsychotics may include:

Dizziness

Feelings of restlessness or "jitters"

Sleepiness (sedation)

Slowed movements

Tremor

Weight gain

Go to this web site soak it all in. And then tell me if all this information was not contradictory could be explained away by things like adhd, Insomnia, Being anti-social because of people who live in dumb reality's.

Thank you for your time

Hallucinating, having paranoid delusions, and struggling to separate reality from complete fiction are signs of very real mental illness. If you cannot see that, and you really think these disorders are not real, then you very may well be schizophrenic yourself.

Maybe that's why you think everyone has the symptoms of schizophrenia, because you have it? Or perhaps you're just "targeted"...hmmmm.

Think those who want to explore the various alternative opinions of various professionals viewing this field, and they do vary, should start their own thread on it, instead of hijacking this one. Once, twice, by the third time, its bullying.


Alien Abductee Under Hypnosis - WTF SCARY!!!

I took notes on the first almost 11 minutes. Though 5 abductions have occurred since childhood to 16, he has shared 2 of them.

They are showing him nice things while this is going on. A beach. He's thinking of his mother, mommy. And they let him touch his brother? He's as scared as I am.

What are they explaining: they help humanity.

--next encounter he is reading an animal encyclopedia. He's 16 now. He's reading about cheeta's. He gets funny feeling like electric shock. He's gone stiff like sleep paralysis but he's awake. He doesnt want to come. He is seeing his now deceased mother and is saying, I am not ready to die and I don't want to come. When he realizes who they are again, he says he hates these bastards, they keep coming to get me. How may times: 5.

Do you understand why they're coming for you? Yes. To collect material, so they say, and information transfer.

What kind of information transfer? Cellular. Memory and genetic.

To you or from you? Both!

What's the transfer to you all about? Future! Future us. Future them. Intermingling. Where we came from, why we're here.

They're picking me up, they're not touching me, they levitate. They're carrying me out the window, I'm fighting. Out through the front window, across the road into the ship.

How big is the ship? 30 feet in diameter! Roughly 3 levels. He's taken to the bottom level. They're sticking a big needle in my side. It bloody hurts. The little (exclamation) Put me back home! Put me back home!

They used your mother in what way? They somehow used her (not sure what he said, think they fashioned themselves to look like her) to keep him calm.

Is your mother aware of being used in this way? Yes.

How does she feel about it? She says she's sorry. (maybe he thinks it really is his mother and not just a program in his perception they give him)

Who else is there with you John? Two other people, I don't know them. Male and female. The lady looks old, about 45, the man about my age, I guess 16.

As an experiencer myself, one thing that is cautionary is that bug like or hooded beings, are reportedly workign with black ops. My youngest son broke free of the sleep paralysis that occurred when he woke up one morning. He came down the stairs in a high state of fear and panic and threw his quilt on the floor and said it had paralyzed him. After calming down he said, there were hooded beings in the room and that everytime he tried to move, they used a wand, cattle prod, stick, to touch his stomach and he said it was like a big punch in the stomach. BUT he broke the hold and ran downstairs.

And someone wrote and told me they are called jackyls adn work with black ops and can portal in and do their bit.

Don't know if all of them are like this, the hooded ones, however.

But, alot of memories even what comes in hyprnosis is said to be implanted. And most only remember negative things, kind of akin to being taken out behind the shed, and given a stern wake up, paddling. It's not pleasant memories. Other types, more information, visits, are usually kept/stored as memories. Though you can also get glimpses of those, but they're harder to stay here afterwards for.

This is only one type of experience, and not all are like this.

He does mention the cold slab, I recall being on something hard and was freezing to the bone and kept telling them that Love Does Not Do This! And the man called humans insects, but when I suggested that in that case, he should leave us alone then. "But of course some would happily their entire lives studying insects".

Originally posted by Unity_99
Think those who want to explore the various alternative opinions of various professionals viewing this field, and they do vary, should start their own thread on it, instead of hijacking this one. Once, twice, by the third time, its bullying.

Having a different opinion is now bullying? Who is trying to suppress who here? To post a thread on a public forum is an open invitation for anyone and everyone to participate.