Fiscal Cliff: In Your Face

reply to post by Indigo5


So didn't watch the video ?

And just play the blame game

That speech right there tells exactly why there is a fiscal cliff but hell no why let common sense get in the way of ideology.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by neo96


Do tell explain how it does considering those charts show who is consuming the majority of tax revenue

Your charts are bunk. They are Heritage Foundation propaganda props. If I thought you were capable of admitting error I would take the time to tell you where in each, but I leave you with the obvious.

In your skewed, BS, chart about federal expenditures...where the Iraq and Afghanistan look ever so tiny and the evil entitlements look huge...let me ask you this...

Does your bank consider it an expenditure when you withdrawl savings you have deposited?

See "Entitlements" are paid for by contributions...

Where as the unfunded wars your idealogical hero got is into were unfunded...

Entitlements cost the government money the same way withdrawing savings costs a bank money.

Now you can shout about how the bank has invested that money poorly and is about to fold, but for effs sake, that is not the depositors problem. The bank should stop spending on effen unfunded adventures in the middle east to occupy oil rich nations...whoopee for the GOP!

edit on 28-11-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-11-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

The charts are not bunk - I love how you have the nerve to call them bunk without even checking the US governments own statistics.

It's really convenient to deny the problem exists when your argument would be destroyed by the actual economic facts.

You also show your ignorance when you claim entitlements are like bank savings, That is total BS. Not even 50% percent of them are currently funded.

Only 25% of the money that is paid out of medicare on average is currently covered by the medicare tax. Medical costs are going up 9% a year, and the tax has not been increased so this number is actually getting much worse every year.

Far less than 100% of the unemployment benefits are covered by the unemployment tax now that they have been radically extended since 2008.

Social security is also only being about half funded since Obama cut the rate in half two years ago - although that tax will hopefully come back as part of the fiscal cliff negotiations because it was absolute idiocy to cut it in the first place.

Food Stamps aren't covered by any tax, and have been expanding like crazy.

I am so damn sick of liberals pretending there is no deficit problem, pretending money grows on trees, and worst of all claiming their own set of facts.

I wonder how you base jump - financially speaking?

The whole system is a blatant rigged scam. Yet everyone keeps falling for it.

What is in your face is all the evidence: the govt is NOT bankrupt at all! cafr1.com...

They lie about EVERYTHING: www.shadowstats.com...

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Thepump

 

Want to try again?

We have always had these problems ALWAYS.

Want to know how much someone who made 30 grand a year in the 80s would be worth in todays dollars?

$84,000 and some change,.

Tell me again "our problems were caused by the right in the 80s".

edit on 28-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I would try again, but I have learned that you can kill a dead horse any deader than it is.

Ronald Reagan is the fellow who created this modern spending spree - he single handedly indebted the country more than all the presidents before him combined.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Here is the truth of the Fiscal Cliff...

Until now the GOP has held hostage the middle class tax breaks for the top income tax breaks.[/quote]

This is tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. No amount of taxes to the so called rich is going to even dent the deficit. It will hurt jobs and families though when small and medium entrepenuers are caught in that class warfare clap trap.

If we go off the cliff Jan. 1st, all the Dems need to do is introduce a stand alone bill for tax breaks for those making less than 250k.....let the GOP publicly oppose that stand alone bill.

Let em, first question back should be "wheres the budget" asked just like Wendys "wheres the beef" commercial, no budget = no basis for discussion. Why is there no budget anyway?

Then the GOP can introduce a bill to give tax breaks to those making over 250k and see where that gets them..

Thought it was mantra for libs and democrats that all be treated equal - did I get that wrong? Equal treatment under the law is part of constitution is it not? How about a flat tax and end this class warfare crap?
.

See...if we go over the cliff, the GOP loses it's hostage and goes down in flames. Believe me a bill to re-instate the tax breaks for the middle class will be on the table by Jan. 2nd and the GOP will be forced to vote against a tax break for the middle class or go along.

It is just this kind of game that keeps anything from being done in Washington, its all positioning and posturing forgetting what effcts class warfare has on economy and individual lives - group think is the antithesis of the American way and IMHO is unpatriotic bordering on subversive.

Then what? The GOP tries to pass a stand alone bill for those making over 250k?

Koolaid and icecream makes ones stomach upset, fat chance.

The rest of the budget deals to re-instate neccessary spending will also get done piece-meal.

The GOPs best option is to compromise for all they can get now, which is less than they could have gotten a year ago when John Boehner celebrated getting the Fiscal Cliff deal "We got 98% of what we wanted!"...which caused a first ever Credit Downgrade of the USA.

Compromise was fact that dems demanded the original across the board tax cuts be temporary instead of permanent. Your own tax loving folks in congress thought they were good idea and extended them for couple of years knowing the economic as well as electorial impact of ending them until winning the presidency which all the sudden changed your position? Thats hypocracy at its best definition in my book..

Partisanship aside...from a pure strategy standpoint the GOP has thoroughly screwed themselves is such a way that could only be done when a political party aims to destroy a sitting President even if it means being economic sabatuers. It is difficult to feel any sympathy for the state the GOP is in and will continue to be in.

Again, no amount of taxation will prevent the Titanic from striking the iceberg, wish you may, wish you might, nothing will stop it from doing so.

All you are doing is rearranging the chairs. A new definition of insanity.

reply to post by Thepump


RE: Reagan

I made more money, made more economic progess in my life and set myself up real good asset wise thanks to President Reagan and his policies.

Geatest U.S. President who ever lived and I miss his honesty and frankness in really communicating with a country who believed in "can do " attitude.

We could use his wisdom today, god bless his soul.

Let's just go over the cliff.



It's bound to happen sooner or later.

(strapping bungee cord on. . . . . )

Originally posted by beezzer
Let's just go over the cliff.

It's bound to happen sooner or later.

(strapping bungee cord on. . . . . )

edit on 28-11-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

Actually I agree first recognizing you humor, second facing the fact that somewhere beyond three more percent of government gobbling up GDP lies inflation and then hyper-inflation which will either bring us back to our roots or break us up as a country.

Either way I am ready for the shoe to drop and the games and suspense to end. Sooner the better for many reasons IMHO.

reply to post by Phoenix


The reason why I believe all this to be nothing more than poo-poo on the lawn, is that despite the cuts, despite the raise in taxes. . . . they are still talking about raising the debt ceiling.

Which means spending is going to continue to increase well beyond our means to pay any of it back.

reply to post by beezzer
You're exactly right on that. They are quite literally 'damned if they do and damned if they don't'. This is the culmination of years of bad deals and partisan "gamesmanship" as Politicians view the lives and fortunes of real Americans trying to lead a meaningful life.

Let's not stand on opinion though. Lets see what the Congressional Budget Office has to say on the question here. They are non-partisan and as much who Pelosi used for numbers on Obamacare as who Republicans use numbers from to make points with. I.E. It's accepted by all to be as fair as it gets, for what that's worth, in reliable sources for statistics on virtually anything along these lines. It's all they do.

CBO had already estimated that going over the cliff would spark a recession, while simply voiding the tax and spending increases would add trillions to the debt. But the new study breaks down the costs and benefits of allowing various parts of the fiscal cliff to remain in place.

Indeed, they have. Numerous times, and their numbers and reports have made it pretty clear without even having to spell it out and actually say it. Math is math and it's not pretty here, whichever way this goes.

It finds that unemployment would rise from 7.9 to 9.1 percent by the end of 2013 if the nation went over the cliff.

Well, quite literally, most of Obama's first term has been spent around 9% so that's not new territory. Entering it a second time, back to back with the first fall though.....will be painful. People have cushions built up to cover unemployment and things like that but not multiple things coming non-stop. err... They get the other part too. This is the kicker about this whole thing.

Avoiding the cliff altogether would add 3.4 million full-time-equivalent jobs, the report estimates. Just extending the payroll tax and unemployment benefits — as some Democrats are advocating — would add 800,000 jobs.

Preventing the cliff would also expand the deficit. The report says it would add $503 billion to the deficit in 2013 and $682 billion in 2014.

Source - The Hill / CBO Data

So, if they fix the multiple issues that are combining to cause this, (There are FOUR totally different things happening in Janurary to form the cliff and Bush's tax cuts wouldn't be enough...but combined, they add enough) They do so at the expense of staying in deficits above 1 trillion, which adds to an exponentially building interest (Net, not gross) liability to be paid every year. It's a downward spiral that never stops beyond a certain line of pure math, IMO.

Originally posted by Phoenix
reply to post by Thepump

 

RE: Reagan

I made more money, made more economic progess in my life and set myself up real good asset wise thanks to President Reagan and his policies.

Geatest U.S. President who ever lived and I miss his honesty and frankness in really communicating with a country who believed in "can do " attitude.

We could use his wisdom today, god bless his soul.

Good, you are still paying compounded interest on his spending

I say lets all go off the cliff together.

The people that have a good work ethic will always be able to provide for themselves and their families. The people that don't can wallow in their sorrow, collect their gubermint bennies and die as inflation goes up three times as fast as the handouts.

Your gubermint phone, your 99 months unemployment and your EBT pittance won't buy you a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk or a gallon of gas then.

Then we won't have to support those dead beats anymore.

The Tea Partiers will persevere. The OWSers will sink and rot in the filthy caldron of their own making.

Originally posted by neo96

Article says 2 billion. and 42 over a decade which is 4 billion a year 25 billion per year is what the feds make off the gasoline sales tax.

Nope....BS

The Top 5 Oil companies get 2.4 Billion annually in taxpayer free money in the form of subsidies

The Oil industry at large gets 41 Billion and change ANNUALLY of taxpayer money

Budget hawks: Does US need to give gas and oil companies $41 billion a year?
www.csmonitor.com...

And NO....they didn't produce more oil...they produced LESS and YES they did show all-time record profits last year

Here are some more highlights from the big five’s activities in 2011:

■They produced 4 percent less oil and “oil equivalent” in 2011 compared to 2010.

■They spent a total of $38 billion, or 28 percent, of their profits to repurchase their own stock.

■They are sitting on more than $58 billion in cash reserves as of the end of 2011.

■They spent $1.6 million on campaign contributions and $65.7 million on lobbying efforts.

■For every $1 spent on lobbying in Washington, the big five received $30 worth of tax breaks.

www.americanprogress.org...

AND it is just insane that you want to eliminate safety nets for Americans while continuing to funnel Billions of those same Americans money to an industry making record profits and outright buying our politicians

Originally posted by beanandginger
Then we won't have to support those dead beats anymore.

The Tea Partiers will persevere. The OWSers will sink and rot in the filthy caldron of their own making.

edit on 29-11-2012 by beanandginger because: (no reason given)

I wouldn't be so sure...HALF of those that identify themselves as TPers (openly admit) they are in households that recieve Medicaire and/or Social Security....I imagine the real number is much higher if complete honesty was involved.

Q's 106 and 107
documents.nytimes.com...

I think it would be cool to draft a bill where folks could OPT-OUT of Social Security and Medicaire, they immediately wouldn't be able to recieve any benefits from either and would be exempt from contributing.

Secondly ...make it simple...a one page opt-out document that just requires a signature and photo ID.

Third...take a stack of them to the next Tea Party rally and see how many are willing to sign

Next all GOP in DC should immediately exempt themselves from Government paid healthcare and their FAT pensions.

Let's start putting our money where our mouth is?

As for OWS? They can keep thier government safety net and continue to contribute to those programs...they are young and aren't collecting benefits now...so let them see if it is solvent in 40 years after the older TPers/GOP who are collecting the vast majority of hand-outs are purged from the roles.

Problem solved.

By the way...not just SS and Medicaire...The majority of those collecting unemployment benefits? Welfare assistance? Older whites.

Lets get this done.

DP

Originally posted by Indigo5

■For every $1 spent on lobbying in Washington, the big five received $30 worth of tax breaks.

www.americanprogress.org...

That line says it all.

However, the Conservative Entertainment Complex has the likes of Neo convinced that this person is a Welfare Queen


Generic Older Woman


and not this one.


Rex W. Tillerson, CEO Exxon Mobil

reply to post by Indigo5

The oil and gas industry is a mature and highly profitable sector that is no longer in need of generous tax breaks or royalty free drilling. The $43.6 billion in tax subsidies that the industry is set to receive over the next decade will not help consumers with rising energy costs.

The $43.6 billion in tax subsidies that the industry is set to receive over the next decade will not help consumers with rising energy costs.

What is insane?

People don't know how to read their own damn articles.

People want safety nets?

Pay for them paying 4% and making other people match it and then tax someone else to cover the difference is not a "safety net".

They are nothing but insolvent programs because the people using them are not paying for them.

Originally posted by neo96

What is insane?

People don't know how to read their own damn articles.

Budget hawks: Does US need to give gas and oil companies $41 billion a year?
www.csmonitor.com...

reply to post by Indigo5


Sorry so now your putting up another link when the first link falls flat on its face.

Which still points out over a decade

resident Obama wants Congress to chop $3.6 billion in 2012 oil and gas tax breaks for a total of $46.2 billion over the next decade.

Yawn.