why is the world ignoring the Congolese war?

reply to post by phyllida


The first paragraph is great. The second, not so much. In fact if I were to be brutally honest. I think the second paragraph is filled with misinformed idiocy. Here are my reasons.

the Africans in certain countries had a far better standard of living than they do now

I seriously doubt this and I would like to see evidence that supports this. Reason being, if you understood the long and complicated history of Africa you wouldn't believe this. Western colonialism brought slavery to the African continent. The Congo is a pertinent example of this. King Leopold forced African to work in the mines. So many Africans were killed through this process that they had to be brought in from other neighbouring areas of Africa. This resulted in the influx of rival tribal groups and the ramifications of this can still be seen today.

Moreover, Western colonialism brought the West Atlantic Slave trade and the triangle trade. Millions of Africans were removed from their indigenous land (yes, after being caught by rival African tribes and sold into slavery) and were brought to the US and Latin America (in fact mostly Latin America). Britain, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands were the principal slave traders. This resulted in the diaspora. However, the ramifications of slavery are often overlooked. Probably one of the worst results of slavery was the collapse of African families, and subsequently who tribes and nations in the African continent. It resulted in widespread divisions between Africans and left a massive scar on the African continent, one that requires research and understanding of the African diaspora to understand - something which you clearly lack from the content of your post.

Now, the exploitation of African resources. Isn't that itself a major cause of Africa's destruction. It is true, Africa is the richest content in the world, with the worlds poorest people. Firstly, resources have been stolen, undermining Africa's future growth. Secondly, colonialism continues in the much cheaper form of owner-ship by Western multinational corporations. The minimum wages paid (and often never paid) to African workers amount to virtual slavery. Essentially they are forced to work, but the costs of living ensures they live in practical serfdom.

Furthermore, to see the success African countries have had by looking inwards to themselves, one must only look to DRC's neighbour Rwanda. Today it is one of the most successful African states. It recovered from a civil conflict and genocide in 1993. Today it boasts one of the greatest GDP per capitas on the African continent, security is guaranteed (yes even for Europeans) and employment is stable. Peoples living standards have greatly improved since the collapse of government enforced colonialism. This was not achieved through Western aid. Yes, the West provided minuscule amounts of aid (in comparison to the problems facing Rwanda), but Rwanda;s own structural reforms and the peoples participation in the building of a nation. Rwanda still faces problems. For instance it continues to support rebel factions in the DRC, continuing the perpetual conflict in the rape and war ravaged Eastern region. However, this is more so related to real politik. Rwanda profits from the minerals extracted by rebel groups and it is in its interest to keep its neighbours weak (the same way the US keeps Latin America weak and dominates over them, the same way China keeps its neighbours weak and dominates over them),

Rwanda certainly needs to halt its support of Eastern rebels, particularly M23. However, considering Rwanda's recent success, I don't think sanctions are necessary. Sanctions always harm the people on the ground and rarely change the governments policy decision making. Unless the people ask for it, they are useless.

I'd like to finish with a great paraphrased quote I heard from a pan-African woman. "UN will not save us. IMF will not save, World Bank will not save us, salvation is within." Deciphering this quote, essentially, despite the rape and pillage of the African continent by Western powers, they will not help because it is costly and not profitable. In reality, it is up to Africans to unite and save themselves.

reply to post by stumason


The international coalition is entirely overrated. Anyone following the conflict in the DRC would understand. The UN peacekeeping mission (MONUSCO) is the largest in the world, numbering just under 20,000 troops. However, these soldiers are not from advanced western states. Almost all are from developing countries. They lack sufficient hardware and fire power. Essentially, 1000 UN peacekeepers are no more different to 1000 rebel soldiers. Moreover, they are often involved in corruption and despite their robust mandate, they fail to protect civilians.

In 2010, MONUC, the previous peacekeeping mission in the DRC was asked to leave by the government because they were essentially useless.

As long as the diamonds and other goods keep coming no one will do anything about this.AfriCom is there to monitor the Chinese activity and the guard the investments of their corporate masters nothing more.It's why things like Benghazi have happened.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Well said.


It sadly comes down to Africa's natural resources mainly diamonds, wood and oil...


As long as all three keep flowing so will the blood...


SS

reply to post by Spike Spiegle
I don't ignore it but theres nothing I can do about it. If I send donation money only 20% even reaches the charities and if I travel there I'd surely be dead within a few days.

Nope...US should stay out of it.

I have been convinced by the ATS touched that any time the US gets involved, things turn bad...without US intervention, the world is a lovely happy rainbow utopia..therefore, there must be no issues since the US isn't involved.

The end

Let peace reign and whatnot.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I was actually referring to more recent history particularly under Ian Smith not Victorian early days and of course slavery which continually gets brought up. I would hope we are well past that stage.It happened, it was wrong and it happened so it would never happen again. Quite often I found throughout my life that certain horrible nasty things occur so that we learn from them so as not to make the same mistake again such as Hiroshima etc.

The majority at the time in Rhodesia didn't even want independance from Britain, they feared it would leave them isolated and it did. It was only because of severe pressure from Britain and other european states that Mugabe ended up in power and look what's happened since.


I think I may be qualified to comment and hope my credibility stands up as I was one of those nasty colonists...I actually lived there. I know what it was like particularly towards the end. Things that will haunt me for as long as I'm on this planet.

It would be nice if occasionally people could focus on what we gave Africa instead of just what we took. I know that's hard but we did give quite a bit you know

reply to post by jibeho


Thank you for doing the work of posting the info that the US is there, and probably fomenting the "african spring" to destabilize and kill off as many native africans so that the Chinese can come in with their willing human slaves, to live in their all-ready built cubicles to mine the resources for the elite.

Agenda 21, brought to you by the United Nations. OObama doesn't give a # about america, he's just helping spend the devalued dollar to help the chinese mine the resources.

Those damn americans won't live in their cubicles and work for pennies, chinese will.

reply to post by phyllida


Please, make a thread about living in Rhodesia at the end. This is info that needs to be put out there.

I'll be hoping to read it.

How can one human being treat another human being in such utter disregard? The world can be a big, ugly place.

The war is just a convenient cover. The powers that have the strength to roam around, namely the US, are actually on a scavenger hunt. They're looking for something underground and it ain't rocks or oil or anything like that. The war just keeps everybody else out.

reply to post by pheonix358


Phoenix - when you put together a thread on chinese ghost cities, please include all of the property they have bought up in the USA, to put up cities of chinese workers. You'll be amazed.

Thank you, obozo and the UN.

General reply to all, thanks for the thoughtful posts and discussion so far.

My friend pheonix358 has a new thread out and I invite you all to check it out in your free time.

Thread


Keep up the good work, stars for all.



SS

Chinese ghost city in Angola.

Just thought I would link to a story from a chinese site.

reply to post by phyllida


Sorry, but I find that mentality silly.

Lets ignore history and downplay the hundreds of years of colonial misrule. Lets ignore the fact the West has backed the assassination of leaders in the 20th Century. From Patrice Lumumba to Thomas Sankara.

But what has colonial rule given Africa? Name the positives left by colonialism. Other than the metric system, I can't think of anything.

The way I see it, your focus on the positives is an attempt to alleviate your guilt. Colonialism is the cause of many problems in Africa, Latin America and Asia. From the artificial borders to the trauma caused by colonial rule.

The answer to that question is quite simple:

Natural resources: Copper, cobalt, diamonds, gold, tantalum, other minerals; petroleum; wood; hydroelectric potential.

Agriculture: Cash crops--coffee, rubber, palm oil, cotton, cocoa, sugar, tea. Food crops--manioc, corn, legumes, plantains, peanuts. Land use--Agriculture 3%; pasture 7%; forest/woodland 77%; other 13%.

Industry: Types--processed and unprocessed minerals; consumer products, including textiles, plastics, footwear, cigarettes, metal products; processed foods and beverages, cement, timber.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Well I'm sorry you find it silly and as for guilt I have none whatsoever.

We don't and never have ignored history but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Yes there were things that could have been done better, mistakes may have been made, but to me and the people I grew up with black & white, the biggest mistake was allowing the communists to take control and completely wreck the beautiful country it was. Yes nowadays Ian Smith's regime would be considered racist, but I will point out that unlike South Africa there was no segregation and the standard of living healthcare & education for the indigenous population was excellent. I remember some of my black schoolfriends were more English at times than I was and certainly their parents were very much pro British.

In all honesty, if you take a good hard look at the picture before and after in any of the colonised African countries, which do you believe is better? Farms are now deserted dustbowls, African AIDS is rampant, war is a way of life, torture everyday occurrence, human rights non existent thanks to the men that were handed a power and control they were unable to handle. Please also bear in mind that most of those countries had no governments at all until the Europeans arrived. It wasn't as if we walked in and usurped existing governments! The men of Africa are vicious power hungry tribesmen. The only people that keep those countries going are the women!! They are the backbone of these poor countries tolerating abuse you can probably not imagine at the hands of their own menfolk.

And as for the point about slavery that you made, slavery was commonplace in many countries of Africa...black on black! Tribal issues go back centuries and these were issues we had to deal with daily in order to keep the peace and help grow the economy.

Enough anyway, its not now relevant to the thread which has gone off topic so apologies for that

I don't think people are ignoring it. I think it's more of a case where there really isn't anything that can be done. What, are people now wanting U.S. troops on the ground to help a country fight a civil war? I certainly don't. Let nature take its course.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by superman2012

 

On this we agree somewhat.
Good, bad or indifferent.

The US does have unique abilities and assets. Whenever they are used however no matter what the cause. Whenever somebody dies [For whatever reason and you know somebody always does] either due to US action or inaction both directly or indirectly it get's smeared all over the media whether it's warranted or not.

In situations like that I wish the EU/China/Russia would get off their rears and help out more often. Usually it's their interests we go to bat for

reply to post by phyllida


I'd like to start by saying that this discussion is entirely relevant to the thread. In order to understand the subjugation of Africa one must first understand colonial rule (which continues to this day) and the long and complicated history of Africa.

Yes there were things that could have been done better, mistakes may have been made

Yes, quite clearly. That mistake being, colonising Africa (and Latin America in that case as both histories are closely linked) in the first place. We can clearly see that a lot of Africa's problems are rooted in the African diaspora and colonial rule. From the Portuguese, the British, the Belgians, the Dutch, the French and the Spanish. From North Africa to the Cape of Hope. I have explained in my previous posts so I won't say it again.

the standard of living healthcare & education for the indigenous population was excellent

I would really like to see some evidence that supports this statement. Excellent by what standards?

I think you'd benefit from watching this short speech. Malcom X's the field negro and the house negro. This is still relevant today.



www.youtube.com...

Farms are now deserted dustbowls, African AIDS is rampant, war is a way of life, torture everyday occurrence, human rights non existent thanks to the men that were handed a power and control they were unable to handle.

It is important to understand why. The European communities essentially usurped whole African nations. The trauma, for instance, caused by Belgian rule in the Congo explains the shock of the country today. When you rape a people, and I mean literally rape them, rape their mothers, their sisters, their wives, cut off their hands, force them into slave labour, kill whole families, kill parts of families, destroy their mind, wage psychological warfare on a people, you will destroy them and the future generations that follow.

Lets also continue the story into the 20th Century. I encourage you to study the African leaders of the 20th Century who stood for peace, solidarity and pan-African-ism (the West's biggest fear). For instance, Thomas Sankara greatly improved the productivity of land in Burkina Faso, to the level that no other African country could. He cut government salaries, banned government employees from driving luxury cars, battled rampant corruption - all the while living in a small house, plain and simple with his family. He was killed from the inside, with the help of the French who he continuously humiliated. We see the same story with Patrice Lumumba in the DRC. Colonial rule continues post-independence.

The leaders who did take power usually cozied to European interests and as such subjugated their own people for the crumbs of the table that Britain, Belgium, France and other fed them.

I highly suggest you watch this documentary, the Upright Man on Burkina Faso. www.youtube.com...

Please also bear in mind that most of those countries had no governments at all until the Europeans arrived

Please bear in mind that this is the same statement a racist bigot with little to no education would say. You clearly lack knowledge on the long history of Africa.

Did you forget Ancient Egypt, founded by black skinned people, not the light skinned people the Europeans who re-wrote African history believe founded Egypt. Did you forget the Kingdoms of Kush? The most advanced centre of maths in the World, Timbuktu (also the most advanced centre for Islamic scholarship), Napata, Meroe and of Axum in Ethiopia, the Christian kingdoms of Nubia and Ethiopia, Ghana and Kanem-Bornu, Mali and Songhay, the Kingdom of the Rift Valley the stone building peoples of the central-southern plateau?

Your ignorance on this issue isn't surprising given that the British educational system wants to repress the brutal reality in order to continue their racist governmental expeditions.

It wasn't as if we walked in and usurped existing governments!

In many cases, yes you did. Moreover, this racist mentality that you must civilise a tribal people through slavery, colonialism and extermination is completely idiotic. The 18th Century called, they want you back.

The men of Africa are vicious power hungry tribesmen. The only people that keep those countries going are the women!!

I hope you realise you sound somewhat prejudice? The women are the backbone of every tribal economy all over the world. They are the money managers and the colonialists used this relationship to colonise Africans and Latin Americans. Bring down their women, you bring down their society.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I will only reply this last time. I have my views you have yours. Mine come from experience, I am presuming rightly or wrongly yours come from books & tv etc

I was not educated in England I was educated in Rhodesia. I only went to University in England. I am more than educated in the history of Africa and most certainly not just from the white man's viewpoint. I am not about to defend my ex country and its policies and the like as it gets nowhere just causes anger and frustration that neither party can see the other side.

Racist against the men of African? quite possibly or it could just be a valid opinion based on what I've seen and experienced. Racist is a buzz word so bandied about these days. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the women so how is that racist? I will agree to sexist

I rarely if ever try to change someone's mind on any given topic. Belief and truth are down to each individual on this planet. What one believes is true another will call a lie. They are totally subjective. I do understand your viewpoint though and take on board your comments.

I will just mention however, in relation to the evil Ian Smith, after he retired from politics, he was shopping one day in Harare I believe when he was surrounded by a growing number of blacks. Now his security were obviously taken aback and worried for his safety and the shopkeeper tried to usher him inside and out the back door. However, it turned out that the crown got bigger and followed him into the shop and guess what they said to him? "please come back into politics we need you". Rumour has it a couple of people offered their life savings to help fund his comeback if he agreed! That to me doesn't sound like a people oppressed but a people depressed by the current regime.

Just a little anecdote from an aging colonialist

PS As far as colonialists are concerned, I would keep a sharp eye out on the Chinese!