Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

Originally posted by DIRTYDONKEY
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Heres the problem, they broke into his house, they don't know his mental state or if he's crazy, He didn't go into their home and shoot them did he? End of story don't brake into someones home because you don't know who they are and what they are capable of. Did he go to far? yeah you could say that, but he wouldn't have had the opportunity if they stayed out of his house.

For the 500th time on this thread.

NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA IF THESE KIDS BROKE INTO THIS HOUSE OR NOT. THE POLICE HAVE NOT YET STATED THIS TO BE TRUE. THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF THEM BEING INTRUDERS IS BASED SOLELY UPON THE UNSUBSTANTIATED VERBAL STATEMENT FROM A GUY WHO HIDES BODIES IN HIS BASEMENT.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

They didn't deserve to die.

Friends and family have expressed their outrage over the deaths of two popular students shot by a homeowner while they robbed his home - as he revealed he fired 'more shots than he needed to'.

The bodies of cousins Haile Kifer, 18, and Nicholas Brady Schaeffel, 17, were found in Byron Smith's basement in Little Falls, Minnesota on Friday - the day after they were shot dead on Thanksgiving.

When police arrived at his home after reports of suspicious activity, Smith, 64, confessed to shooting the teenagers repeatedly and stashing their bodies after they broke into his home, authorities said.

On Monday, he was charged with second-degree murder and police revealed he told them he fired more shots than necessary after his gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... a
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Role model? Star students? How about repeat break and enter / robbery suspects. If they weren't breaking and entering NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. I am sure the usual anti-gun membership on ATS will say he shouldn't have defended his home and property, but like I said, if they weren't breaking the law they would still be alive today. Parents are in part to blame, obviously they didn't teach their children the proper respect of others property and rights. Tired of the "good kids" excuse, your actions have consequences, just as these two found out.

We only have his word that they broke into his home he could have invited them in for some reason or another an then executed them an staged a break in.............................

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by DIRTYDONKEY
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Heres the problem, they broke into his house, they don't know his mental state or if he's crazy, He didn't go into their home and shoot them did he? End of story don't brake into someones home because you don't know who they are and what they are capable of. Did he go to far? yeah you could say that, but he wouldn't have had the opportunity if they stayed out of his house.

For the 500th time on this thread.

NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA IF THESE KIDS BROKE INTO THIS HOUSE OR NOT. THE POLICE HAVE NOT YET STATED THIS TO BE TRUE. THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF THEM BEING INTRUDERS IS BASED SOLELY UPON THE UNSUBSTANTIATED VERBAL STATEMENT FROM A GUY WHO HIDES BODIES IN HIS BASEMENT.

This man finally reacted on the SIXTH time his house was broken into.

Want to bet at least one of those five previous times it was these two kids?

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot
reply to post by caladonea

 

What if? lmao Ok. What if...... they were part of a gang, there was more of them coming in or the old man thought there might be so he was making sure that those he hit could not come after him as the others came at him? Remember HE did not got to them! They both came down the stairs to him. What if there was more? What if the others were armed as well? You can play the what if game on both sides.

What we KNOW is the window was broken, he had his home broken into before, he DID NOT GO HUNTING THEM but instead waited for them to come to him, and they did not belong there and he did. As to his thoughts we can not accurately figure them out but I would be interested in the OTHER times his house had been broken into, the number of home invaders, what the police told him about the home invaders then, plus other items. To me it sounds like he was expecting that to be his last stand and did not really expect to survive it.

NO. All we know is that he has admitted to shooting each of them twice, the second shot for each of them after they were incapacitated, and then he moved the bodies and waited a day to call the police -- and even then the police came because of reports by neighbors of suspicious activity. He called a friend and asked about a lawyer. These are not the actions of an innocent man. You are taking his claims at face value, without any investigation of what actually happened.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by DIRTYDONKEY
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Heres the problem, they broke into his house, they don't know his mental state or if he's crazy, He didn't go into their home and shoot them did he? End of story don't brake into someones home because you don't know who they are and what they are capable of. Did he go to far? yeah you could say that, but he wouldn't have had the opportunity if they stayed out of his house.

For the 500th time on this thread.

NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA IF THESE KIDS BROKE INTO THIS HOUSE OR NOT. THE POLICE HAVE NOT YET STATED THIS TO BE TRUE. THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF THEM BEING INTRUDERS IS BASED SOLELY UPON THE UNSUBSTANTIATED VERBAL STATEMENT FROM A GUY WHO HIDES BODIES IN HIS BASEMENT.

This man finally reacted on the SIXTH time his house was broken into.

Want to bet at least one of those five previous times it was these two kids?

Who knows who broke into this guy's house in the past. Apparently you can't read:

NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA IF THESE KIDS BROKE INTO THIS HOUSE OR NOT. THE POLICE HAVE NOT YET STATED THIS TO BE TRUE. THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF THEM BEING INTRUDERS IS BASED SOLELY UPON THE UNSUBSTANTIATED VERBAL STATEMENT FROM A GUY WHO HIDES BODIES IN HIS BASEMENT.

You're just going to take the word of this guy who has dead teenagers in his basement, and who has acknowledged that he moved them and didn't call the police immediately afterwards.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot
reply to post by caladonea

 

What if? lmao Ok. What if...... they were part of a gang, there was more of them coming in or the old man thought there might be so he was making sure that those he hit could not come after him as the others came at him? Remember HE did not got to them! They both came down the stairs to him. What if there was more? What if the others were armed as well? You can play the what if game on both sides.

What we KNOW is the window was broken, he had his home broken into before, he DID NOT GO HUNTING THEM but instead waited for them to come to him, and they did not belong there and he did. As to his thoughts we can not accurately figure them out but I would be interested in the OTHER times his house had been broken into, the number of home invaders, what the police told him about the home invaders then, plus other items. To me it sounds like he was expecting that to be his last stand and did not really expect to survive it.

NO. All we know is that he has admitted to shooting each of them twice, the second shot for each of them after they were incapacitated, and then he moved the bodies and waited a day to call the police -- and even then the police came because of reports by neighbors of suspicious activity. He called a friend and asked about a lawyer. These are not the actions of an innocent man. You are taking his claims at face value, without any investigation of what actually happened.

I can't disagree with that at all. In fact it reminded me of this:

Back at his hotel, Kennedy complained at 2:55 a.m. to the hotel owner that he had been awoken by a noisy party.[3] By 7:30 a.m. the next morning he was talking "casually" to the winner of the previous day's sailing race, with no indication that anything was amiss.[3] At 8 a.m., Gargan and Markham joined Kennedy at his hotel where they had a "heated conversation." According to Kennedy's testimony, the two men asked why he had not reported the accident. Kennedy responded by telling them "about my own thoughts and feelings as I swam across that channel ... that somehow when they arrived in the morning that they were going to say that Mary Jo was still alive".[15] The three men subsequently crossed back to Chappaquiddick Island on the ferry, where Kennedy made a series of telephone calls from a pay telephone near the crossing. The telephone calls were to his friends for advice and again, he did not report the accident to authorities.[3]

Originally posted by milominderbinder
That's not apparent at all. The police haven't commented on it as of yet. Likewise, there is NOTHING in the article that indicates the police agree with anything that it says whatsoever.

on the contrary, see this from the article

maybe i'm not reading enough into to the sheriffs statement. what stands out to me is,
'Circumstances of this case however, led deputies to believe that Smith went beyond that point.'

what this says to me is that a investigation was done and the deputies, found enough cause to charge him with second degree murder, there is nothing that states anything to the contrary. in fact if you look carefullyt at the sheriffs statement, it would seem to indicate that, they believe him.

No...you're reading far, far, TOO MUCH into what the JOURNALIST is saying and attributing that to the police department. The POLICE HAVE NOT YET STATED THAT THEY FEEL THE KIDS DEFINITIVELY BROKE INTO THE HOUSE. Period. It's not up for debate or discussion...it's just a simple fact.

How do we know that he wasn't mixing his pills and booze on Thanksgiving and that caused him to shoot the two nice kids who knocked on his door to ask directions?

because of the statement released by the sheriff. again brush up on those skills
and as far as the you using bret frave or any other publicly know person, it don't hold water.
and just in case you didn't see my edit to my first response to you
your words are in the bold.below

Show me the where the cops said that the old man's tox screen was clear. Show me where the COPS (not the journalist or the perp) said that the kids were breaking and entering? And it comparing celebrities ABSOLUTELY HOLDS WATER. Nobody thinks of Brett Farve as a "junkie". So she had a problem with prescription drugs. She played sports...perhaps she got hooked on the same painkillers that he was for a sports injury? That doesn't mean she would necessarily go break into a house to fuel an addiction like a crackhead.

ETA: this from your one of your posts i don't know who you are responding to.
There are simply no commonly found street drugs that would produce this sort of behavior. Moreover, this is the about the fourth time I've heard somebody offhandedly state "well...they must have been on drugs" excuse.

The article states that one of them had a little problem with prescription meds

...but so did Brett Farve and Rush Limbaugh.
you know much about street drugs do ya,

Yes. I do.

also brett frave and rush limbaugh weren't found dead in someones home after a apparent break in.

...and we come full circle once again. There is nothing that the police have stated or that is contained in the article which indicates that the kids broke in. The whole notion at this time is based SOLELY upon verbal statements made by a guy who hides bodies in the basement.

And for the record...if there actually IS some sort of proof that the kids REALLY broke into this guys house...I DON'T think he should be tried for murder. IF that's the case...his reaction seems more the product of mental illness than criminal intent and I have not ever believed in treating crazy people like criminals.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot
reply to post by caladonea

 

What if? lmao Ok. What if...... they were part of a gang, there was more of them coming in or the old man thought there might be so he was making sure that those he hit could not come after him as the others came at him? Remember HE did not got to them! They both came down the stairs to him. What if there was more? What if the others were armed as well? You can play the what if game on both sides.

What we KNOW is the window was broken, he had his home broken into before, he DID NOT GO HUNTING THEM but instead waited for them to come to him, and they did not belong there and he did. As to his thoughts we can not accurately figure them out but I would be interested in the OTHER times his house had been broken into, the number of home invaders, what the police told him about the home invaders then, plus other items. To me it sounds like he was expecting that to be his last stand and did not really expect to survive it.

NO. All we know is that he has admitted to shooting each of them twice, the second shot for each of them after they were incapacitated, and then he moved the bodies and waited a day to call the police -- and even then the police came because of reports by neighbors of suspicious activity. He called a friend and asked about a lawyer. These are not the actions of an innocent man. You are taking his claims at face value, without any investigation of what actually happened.

Thank God...

Another person with some common sense.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by DIRTYDONKEY
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Heres the problem, they broke into his house, they don't know his mental state or if he's crazy, He didn't go into their home and shoot them did he? End of story don't brake into someones home because you don't know who they are and what they are capable of. Did he go to far? yeah you could say that, but he wouldn't have had the opportunity if they stayed out of his house.

For the 500th time on this thread.

NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA IF THESE KIDS BROKE INTO THIS HOUSE OR NOT. THE POLICE HAVE NOT YET STATED THIS TO BE TRUE. THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF THEM BEING INTRUDERS IS BASED SOLELY UPON THE UNSUBSTANTIATED VERBAL STATEMENT FROM A GUY WHO HIDES BODIES IN HIS BASEMENT.

This man finally reacted on the SIXTH time his house was broken into.

Want to bet at least one of those five previous times it was these two kids?

Sweet Jesus, you are dense.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THESE KIDS BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE AT ALL.

Property is not more valuable than life, so life should not be taken to protect it. If the mans life had been threatened then that's a different story.

reply to post by Raulken


I am one of those old, disabled, depressed, drugged people to whom you made reference - I'd have to resort to my sidearm in the event of any type of physical altercation. If the guy had been proficient with his weapon, I have no problem with him starting out with a head shot or other one shot kill, after all he did believe he was protecting his property, although it was never stated he feared for his own life or safety at the time as I recall. However, once an assailant has been disabled or downed, their doesn't remain a credible threat.

I have to disagree about your comment regarding premeditation - if you read the referenced article, it's plain that the murder of the female was premeditated: she was shot, he got another gun shot her some more and THEN decided to stick his gun up under her chin and put a "clean kill shot" into her brain. These things he voluntarily admitted to the police. It's that last one that puts him on the hook for first degree murder IMO.

ganjoa

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

The guy admitted to shooting them too many times and that he shot them because they laughed at him... I'm sure you can understand the guys anger... First they break into his little piece of heaven, his "safe haven" his home... Then they laugh in his face!

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody...

Instead of looking from the criminals point of view why not look at it from the old mans point of view? You really think this guy dragged 2 guys into his house and then shot em? Then would tell the police that he shot them for laughing at him? He didn't need to tell them that part and if it were me I wouldn't of... He could of just said he was scared that's why he hid the bodies... But no he told the truth... Why would you think he is lying?

What is more plausible to you? Burglars get shot or some old man goes out and drags 2 lads back to his house so he can shoot them and hide the bodies in the basement? Not saying it is impossible but in the light of his admission I would say VERY improbable...

I just don't get people defending people who would happily break into your house and ROB YOU!

You just don't get it. Nobody besides the homeowner knows exactly what happened BECAUSE HE KILLED THE TWO TEENAGERS! And this he has admitted to. You are taking his word for it that they were intruders without any substantiating evidence. You assume that what he has said is the truth, even though as is, this portrays him in a bad light, i.e. giving them head shots after already incapacitating them, then dragging their bodies around and then not calling the police immediately. His behavior is at best extremely suspicious.

Here is another, more recent article, same topic:
Brainerd Dispatch

Smith acknowledged to investigators that he knew neither of the deceased were armed, but maintained that he was fearful the entire time that they may have had a weapon.

and

Bruce Smith told the Star Tribune on Sunday that the break-ins had left his brother, a former State Department security officer, feeling vulnerable and afraid.

That last part makes me think that he would have been more proficient with a sidearm, and would have known how to clear the jam in the mini 14 rifle he was using for home defense.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by mee30

 

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody..

No, I think you said it.

And that is the mindset that annoys me in this discussion..The idea that an offender of a relatively small crime should receive ultimate justice.

It causes me to speculate that some would welcome an intruder, just to satisfy their bloodlust.

Neither party in this deserves to be defended. But it is the two dead that deserve it more.

It has nothing to do with dispensing justice or bloodlust...that is just a bit of silly hyperbole. The issue is, that if you find intruders in your home in the middle of the night, a person has (or should) have the right to defend themselves. Nothing about "justice" or what the usual court sentence would be, because that is not the issue. The issue is about a free citizen being able to protect himself and his in the middle of the night. A law abiding citizen has this right and responsability and, our founding father would suggest, a duty to shoot a criminal in the dead of night. Those who fear getting shot, should not break in. Simple.

OTOH, if this man did administer a coupe de grace and did move the bodies before calling the police, then we have a murder, not a case of self defense. You are allowed to stop the threat by right. Once the threat is over and the person is down, finishing them off is murder. Sounds like this guy is going to end up at the wrong end of a needle if the allegations are true.

IF you bothered to go to the Daily Mail article link, you would see that this creepy guy did administer a coupe de grace to the two of them and did move their bodies -- according to his own statements. He also never called the police. It was neighbors who reported suspicious activity that brought the police to his house, after which he admitting to killing the two teenagers under dubious -- at best -- circumstances.

I can't believe the people defending this guy, and people apparently defending him without reading all the details known so far.

A lot of blood-thirsty ATS'ers who will believe anything that some creepy gun owner harboring dead teenagers in his basement says. You're seriously sick and credulous cretins, people.

reply to post by milominderbinder

and for the third time you are wrong.
this from the star tribune in Minneapolis, MN
a statement made by the sheriff
Local Little Falls teen shooting deaths called 'cold-blooded’

Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Monday that he believes the teenagers were committing a burglary but said Smith's reaction went beyond legal protections of Minnesota law that allows crime victims to use reasonable force to protect themselves and their property during a felony.

above quote from Man Charged In 2 Little Falls Teen Deaths
and this from local kids same article

Other kids rumored that drugs might have been involved, a subject authorities declined to get into, saying the case is ongoing.

and i find this leaves little doubt as to what the two were doing, and this comes from his own sister.

Schaeffel's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Haile Kifer broke into her home before. Little Falls police records show that Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft on Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

above from the CBS Crimesiders Byron Smith Update

again i say to you you are the one who needs to brush up on their critical thinking and reading skills.
until you can show me any where in print that the sheriffs dept believes other wise i'm gonna go with what is in print as to what the sheriff and the sister said.
google it i found article after article that say the same things. as to what the sheriff said.

ETA: i forgot the the tv station article cbslocal.com
again from the guys sister

Schaeffel’s sister, Crystal Schaeffel, said that Kifer had stolen prescription drugs from her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

just like i told you in my other posts they were after drugs. and it wasn't just a "little problem".
you just have to be blind to keep on believing what you are saying.
if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, probably is a duck.

yeah the guy kinda went overboard and screwed up by not calling the police.

Originally posted by luciddream
People that support this guy and his story without thinking and asking question about his story scares me...

Those are the people that would kill 2 people, drag their bodies into house and scream self defense....

All we have is this guys killed 2 kids... that HE SAYS "broke in"..

used excessive bullets and did it in a executive style and then hid the bodies.... and look at all these brainless morons that buying into this.. wow seriously, some of you need serious help... taking the murder who hid the bodies story as the absolute one...

Maybe the old guy was smart enough to know people in this country would support him if he used a story like this...

This story is not making sense. And this discussion is not going anywhere because more than half the people are not looking at the fact he HID THE BODIES!....but instead focusing on gun laws and their rights....

Disgusting...

I'm feeling a bit calm that there were few people in this thread that questioned the story...

It is these same types of people who let Casey Anthony and OJ off.

Something just doesn't add up with this story. Just makes no sense. I have 3 guns and i would not hesitate to shoot anyone who broke in my house.

That said if i shot someone and they dropped and were unarmed and still alive I would not go up to them put the gun to there head and blow there brains out. The way some of you talk it seems you'd have zero issues doing that.

To me once the threat is eliminated there is no need to then kill just for the thrill of it.

If someone came up to me and punched me in the face and i knocked them out and they dropped on the floor clearly out cold I have no right by law to repeatably kick them in the head cause i disabled the threat.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by milominderbinder

The only "evidence" that these two kids were "robbing" anyone come from the unsubstantiated allegations of the same creepy old guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.

So you're determined to judge the owner of the home by his appearance.

Ted Bundy anyone?

NO. The commentor is determined to judge the matter by the facts, unlike all of the people accepting this guy's story at face value. Yes, the guy looks creepy, but this is not the only or main reason we are questioning the facts of the case.

Did you happen to read the original article? This guy never called the police. Suspicious neighbors called, and only when the police came to his door and questioned him did he tell the police that he had two dead teenagers in his basement. And yes, this does sound Ted Bundy-esque.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by milominderbinder

The only "evidence" that these two kids were "robbing" anyone come from the unsubstantiated allegations of the same creepy old guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.

So you're determined to judge the owner of the home by his appearance.

Ted Bundy anyone?

Did you happen to read the original article? This guy never called the police. Suspicious neighbors called, and only when the police came to his door and questioned him did he tell the police that he had two dead teenagers in his basement. And yes, this does sound Ted Bundy-esque.

i don't think you read the article in the op either
from the op's article

Smith said he left the bodies in his home overnight before calling a neighbor to ask if he knew a good lawyer. He later asked the neighbour to contact police.

.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by milominderbinder
BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THESE KIDS BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE, ATTEMPTED TO ROB HIM, OR WERE AFTER ANY PRESCRIPTION MEDS WHATSOEVER!!!!

You know this how?

Same way you know the home owners a creep because of how he looks?

edit on 26-11-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

Man, you are dense. There is no evidence that these two teenagers were intruders, other than that their dead bodies were in this guy's basement for at least one day, and the authorities only found out about it after neighbors reported suspicious activities to the police and then the police investigated.

The killer -- and he has admitted to as much -- claims they broke in, but the story provides no evidence of it. The commentor you are responding to is only saying "how do we know things went down as this guy claims"? Yet you are suggesting there is concrete evidence that these two teenagers broke in. You're the one jumping to conclusions. There are several of us on this thread saying that this guy's story doesn't add up. And even if it is as he claims, he committed murder, putting in additional head shots into incapacitated teenagers who were then no harm to him. Nor did he call the police afterwards. He committed murder and attempted to cover it up. That is undisputed fact from the Daily Mail article. The circumstances of how this happened are still open to conjecture.

3 teens broke into my cousins house while he was sleeping in the middle of the night. He lives near Detroit so he keeps a gun in his nightstand next to the bed. When one of them entered his bedroom my cousin shot him. The other 2 heard the shots and ran. No charges were ever filed on my cousin.

The goons in the neighborhood didn't like the fact my cousin defended his home. They started breaking the windows out on his home and car. One day he came home and found his dog hung from a tree. He sold his home and moved.