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God & Simulation Theory
page: 1share:
I was thinking about this; trying to match up the [Biblical] account of God, & the universe, to the modern theory that we're most likely a
simulation.
So the premise comes from the description of God's attributes. These would be:
Omnipotence. is a term meaning ultimate power. Logically speaking the creator of a universe would have full domain over it; over the energy, matter, physics, laws, etc. If you look at from the perspective that "God" is running this universe on a computer, he does have full control over everything that exist within the system.
Omniscience is a term meaning, knowing everything there is to know (complete knowledge). If this universe is a simulation, then "God" has complete access to every bit of information that flows within the system. As I said previously, full control over every single thing that comprises this universe. He has the knowledge of not only every question that we could ever think of, but also knowledge of every thing that has happened, and will happen.
Omnipresence is a term denoting that one is present everywhere at once, including every point in time (this timeline). To the God who exist outside our simulation, our entire existence would basically look like a [very long] straight line with a beginning and end point. It represents the entirety of the simulation from point A to point B. Therefore he can observe any/everything, at any point in time. That's where the notion that time makes no difference to God comes from. Our time makes no difference to God because the simulation is run inside the system almost instantaneously, and from there can be entered, observed or manipulated to alter outcomes.
Those attributes don't make much sense to us as beings living in 3 dimensions with limited brains. It does make sense when you look at it from an outside observer point of view. We run rudimentary simulations even today, especially RTS games like Age of Empires. In AOE you control and follow the progression of the human race from the stone age to bronze age, iron age & so on. This span of thousands of years occurs within minutes to hours of the players observation.
Alpha and Omega = Beginning of the simulation, and the end of simulation. Being there at its inception, and there at its conclusion.
---------------------------------
Heaven may be the idea that instead of having your consciousness wiped at the end, you're implanted/transferred into a different simulation; OR that your consciousness is transferred directly up the hierarchy into God's "universe". Either incarnated into a robotic shell, android, holographic avatar, etc.
Hell being the idea that you weren't deemed worthy of existing in heaven due to choices on Earth that may make you a liability even in the next realm. Perhaps what occurred with Lucifer & the angels rebelling is something he wants to avoid this time, and so he's using the simulation to weed out those who are good of heart, & those who are not.
May sound kooky, but I'm just putting it out there.
So the premise comes from the description of God's attributes. These would be:
Omnipotence. is a term meaning ultimate power. Logically speaking the creator of a universe would have full domain over it; over the energy, matter, physics, laws, etc. If you look at from the perspective that "God" is running this universe on a computer, he does have full control over everything that exist within the system.
Omniscience is a term meaning, knowing everything there is to know (complete knowledge). If this universe is a simulation, then "God" has complete access to every bit of information that flows within the system. As I said previously, full control over every single thing that comprises this universe. He has the knowledge of not only every question that we could ever think of, but also knowledge of every thing that has happened, and will happen.
Omnipresence is a term denoting that one is present everywhere at once, including every point in time (this timeline). To the God who exist outside our simulation, our entire existence would basically look like a [very long] straight line with a beginning and end point. It represents the entirety of the simulation from point A to point B. Therefore he can observe any/everything, at any point in time. That's where the notion that time makes no difference to God comes from. Our time makes no difference to God because the simulation is run inside the system almost instantaneously, and from there can be entered, observed or manipulated to alter outcomes.
Those attributes don't make much sense to us as beings living in 3 dimensions with limited brains. It does make sense when you look at it from an outside observer point of view. We run rudimentary simulations even today, especially RTS games like Age of Empires. In AOE you control and follow the progression of the human race from the stone age to bronze age, iron age & so on. This span of thousands of years occurs within minutes to hours of the players observation.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.: Revelation 22:13
Alpha and Omega = Beginning of the simulation, and the end of simulation. Being there at its inception, and there at its conclusion.
---------------------------------
Heaven may be the idea that instead of having your consciousness wiped at the end, you're implanted/transferred into a different simulation; OR that your consciousness is transferred directly up the hierarchy into God's "universe". Either incarnated into a robotic shell, android, holographic avatar, etc.
Hell being the idea that you weren't deemed worthy of existing in heaven due to choices on Earth that may make you a liability even in the next realm. Perhaps what occurred with Lucifer & the angels rebelling is something he wants to avoid this time, and so he's using the simulation to weed out those who are good of heart, & those who are not.
May sound kooky, but I'm just putting it out there.
edit on 25-11-2012 by Raelsatu because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Raelsatu
Heaven may be the idea that instead of having your consciousness wiped at the end, you're implanted/transferred into a different simulation; OR that your consciousness is transferred directly up the hierarchy into God's "universe". Either incarnated into a robotic shell, android, holographic avatar, etc.
There are some modern theories speculating that our memories/"souls" are remote, and that they are synchronized with our brains (dumb terminals, so to speak) via quantum mechanics. I am not sure I like the mechanism dictated by these theories (they try to justify it via some small/recently discovered neural component, I forget what it was), but I like the notion itself.
edit on 25-11-2012 by Matriculated because: (no reason given)
Very nicely put. And people just walk off the ledge like lemmings, it's funny in some ways, but truly tragic in others.
What if to god is cool with you testing the mustard of others?
What if to god is cool with you testing the mustard of others?
reply to post by Raelsatu
It is interesting, but then the question remains, what simulation is OUR programmer in?
It is interesting, but then the question remains, what simulation is OUR programmer in?
reply to post by jiggerj
Looking for a container where there is none? or maybe i just lost the handle and can't close the door.
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A CHILD brought to its mother a piece of ice and
asked: "What is this?"
The mother answered, "it is ice."
Again the child asked, "What is there in ice?"
The mother answered: "There is water in the ice."
The child desired to find the water in the ice, and it
procured a hammer, pounded the piece of ice into little
bits and the warm air soon changed all the ice to water.
The child was grievously disappointed, for the ice that
the child supposed contained water had disappeared.
And the child said, "Where is the ice that contained
this water?"
And so it came to pass that the mother was compelled,
by the child's persistent questions, to say, "ice is all water;
there is no such thing as ice; that which we call ice is
crystalized or frozen water."
The child understood.
A student brought to his teacher some water and asked,
"What is water ? What does it contain ?"
The teacher answered, "Water contains oxygen and
hydrogen," and then explained how the two gases might
be separated and set free by heat.
The student boiled the water until all of the molecules
of oxygen and hydrogen had been set free, but he was
surprised to find that all of the water had disappeared.
Then the student asked of the teacher, "Where is the
water that held the gases that have escaped?"
Then was the teacher compelled by the student's per-
sistent questions to answer, "Water itself is the product
of oxygen and hydrogen. Water does not contain any-
thing other than these gases. In reality, there is no such
substances or fluid as water; that which we name water
is a rate of motion set in operation by the union of two
parts of hydrogen with one part of oxygen and, of course,
the phenomenon disappears when the union of the gases
is broken."
The student understood.
A devout scientist presented himself before God and
said, "Lord, what are these gases men call oxygen and
hydrogen?"
The good Lord answered and said, "They are mole-
cules in the blood and body of the universe."
Then spake the scientist, "Lord, wilt thou tell me of
the kind of molecules that compose Thy blood and body?"
The Lord replied, "These same molecules, gases or
principles, compose my blood and body; for I and the
universe are one and the same."
Once again the scientist said, "My Lord, may I ask,
then, what is spirit and what is matter?"
And thus answered the Lord :
"As ice and water are one, and the gases and water are
one, so is spirit and matter one. The different phases
and manifestations cognized by man in the molecules of
My body that is, the universe are caused by the Word ;
thus, they are My thoughts clothed with form."
Now the scientist felt bold, being redeemed from fear,
and asked "is my blood, then, identical with Thy blood
in composition and Divine Essence?"
And the Lord said, "Yea, thou art one with the
Father." ^
The scientist now understood and said:
"Now mine eyes are opened and I perceive that, when
I eat, I partake of Thy body; when I drink, I drink of
Thy blood; and when I breathe, I breathe Thy spirit."
So-called matter is Pure Intelligence and nothing else
because there is not anything else. "
Looking for a container where there is none? or maybe i just lost the handle and can't close the door.
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Raelsatu
It is interesting, but then the question remains, what simulation is OUR programmer in?
Well again this is all speculative; but statistically speaking our God would have a "God" also. The simulation theory entails a potentially infinite hierarchy of simulations that perpetuate the cycle. Each successive simulation may act as a novelty generator; i.e entities start simulations with the intent of generating information, knowledge, innovations, inventions, etc. For example when we reach the point of being able to simulate worlds with sentient inhabitants, we can observe the span of the entire universe within seconds, and draw all the data from it. Running endless numbers of simulations at the same time, over and over would result in a novelty generator that endlessly collects data, experiences, all of this. It would literally be a singularity of information & knowledge.
Even if this was the case, I don't know if there's an "original" God --- that is one who was not existing within a simulation. How exactly something could just become everything, from nothing doesn't make sense to us. Which may ultimately mean that the nature of existence, and experience, is infinite.
Whoah, you just got me thinking.
It got me thinking of the Matrix movie..
Neo Trinity and Morpheus , were the fallen angels of the simulation!
Thats why the human city was way way below ground.
The matrix is one metaphor of heaven and hell.
Thanks for helping me understand.
It got me thinking of the Matrix movie..
Neo Trinity and Morpheus , were the fallen angels of the simulation!
Thats why the human city was way way below ground.
The matrix is one metaphor of heaven and hell.
Thanks for helping me understand.
reply to post by Raelsatu
The way I like to think of it is that we are in some kind of simulation and God's true form must be from some realm where energy is created under natural laws to that realm.
Also, has anyone kicked around the notion that residual ghosts could just be malformed data that is being replayed because our reality is nothing but data being read, manifested, acted upon, read, manifested, acted upon.... That is to say, could residual ghosts be the proof that we are in a simulation?
The way I like to think of it is that we are in some kind of simulation and God's true form must be from some realm where energy is created under natural laws to that realm.
Also, has anyone kicked around the notion that residual ghosts could just be malformed data that is being replayed because our reality is nothing but data being read, manifested, acted upon, read, manifested, acted upon.... That is to say, could residual ghosts be the proof that we are in a simulation?
reply to post by Raelsatu
Really good post (and thread so far). Summarised my recent thoughts and understandings quite well.
Cheers,
Paul
Really good post (and thread so far). Summarised my recent thoughts and understandings quite well.
Cheers,
Paul
Originally posted by Raelsatu
We run rudimentary simulations even today, especially RTS games like Age of Empires. In AOE you control and follow the progression of the human race from the stone age to bronze age, iron age & so on. This span of thousands of years occurs within minutes to hours of the players observation.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.: Revelation 22:13
Alpha and Omega = Beginning of the simulation, and the end of simulation. Being there at its inception, and there at its conclusion.
---------------------------------
So like in the RTS game genre, this population reduction concept needs to be done to make room for more military units. Kill off villagers to make more Knights?
reply to post by Bleeeeep
Deja vu possibly overwritten sectors. Disasters possibly corrupted areas of the disc.
Deja vu possibly overwritten sectors. Disasters possibly corrupted areas of the disc.
reply to post by Raelsatu
IF god has a god he is not free.
IF that god has another god, he is not free.
What is not free is not god.
So what is god ?
God is both sides of the coin, lived from one side of the coin.
IF god has a god he is not free.
IF that god has another god, he is not free.
What is not free is not god.
So what is god ?
God is both sides of the coin, lived from one side of the coin.
previously quoted by Raelsatu:
We are not simulations... I'm pretty sure the earth has been hit by meteors... and we are not in a video game so this explains it... heh...
Since you believe in god - Doesn't it say in Genesis that god has the knowledge of good and evil? I find that illogical... Just my input...
I was thinking about this; trying to match up the [Biblical] account of God, & the universe, to the modern theory that we're most likely a simulation.
We are not simulations... I'm pretty sure the earth has been hit by meteors... and we are not in a video game so this explains it... heh...
Since you believe in god - Doesn't it say in Genesis that god has the knowledge of good and evil? I find that illogical... Just my input...
This is a former thought I have had about this concept, with a slightly different angle. It was a response to a different but also similar idea.
~ Here is a thought I have been thinking lately kinda mixes in with your post.
What if "we" are the "machines"? I put that in quotes for a reason.
Most of you on ATS should be familiar with the concept of linear time being an "illusion".
Basically..
Linear time or what we think of "time" is the perception of something in our mind that relies on memories of our "past" and also a projection into a "future" event. Ultimately everything is happening right now. The "past" and the "future" only exist in our mind.
You can also see this through a "spiritual" filter ~ some would call this new perception the end of suffering, or "enlightenment".
Hopefully you have heard of these concepts to grasp the straw I will be reaching for in the following explanation.
This line of thought sometimes ties my mind into a knot.
Bare with me
For there to even be this "now" that some have felt (it can't be found in the mind, it must be felt within the body) or experienced, this "now" has to already have been established, or created.
That sentence doesn't make sense because the "words" we use to describe things are limited. For example our minds interpretation of the word now comes preloaded with the notion of a Genesis: a beginning point. This is why enlightenment is hard to achieve, we look for this "now" in our mind where it will never be found/felt.
~ Now if we can agree that everything is indeed happening now ~
This opens up some interesting thoughts when looking at AI, or biological machines. for instance.
If everything that has happened or will ever happen is happening in this "now" moment, then humans have already created AI, or biological machines. What we call our awareness could possibly be artificial intelligence, and what we experience today is actually our (AI) past.
What "we" (as in) our "awareness" is experiencing is how "we" (AI) were created by humans.
The human brain could simply be a very powerful "computer", after death all our "memories" are uploaded to the main frame or source. The logical thing to do at that point (point of view of "source"), would be to divide yourself up into many different forms to have a first hand experience of your "our" ~ creation/creators.
You (as source) would need to forget you are in fact the creator and the source, that way the experience you have here feels real.
This could also make an excellent way for a more advanced species to "teach" their young. The lessons learned would be invaluable I imagine, and also could work on some level as "therapy" for this more advanced species.
You could in essence obtain millions of year of information in linear time, in what would be maybe 1 hour (or less) in your "time". Or you could "manipulate" the program to provide individual lessons (therapy), but the overall creation or the "ending" so to speak would always be the same.
Under this theory the "ending" would be when humans create the "big bang", that actually formed the entire universe in the "beginning". The end and the beginning would be one in the same. The alpha and the omega so to speak.
As for actually changing the "ending"
Maybe you could remember your true nature as "source" and begin creating while in this form. Perhaps creating something "new", or different than your previous creation.
I might make a thread sometime if I ever work these "thoughts" out in a more detailed and easier to understand explanation.
I know most of the above will be hard to follow.
Remember this is a just a "thought", your post brought it to mind. ~
S&F
~ Here is a thought I have been thinking lately kinda mixes in with your post.
What if "we" are the "machines"? I put that in quotes for a reason.
Most of you on ATS should be familiar with the concept of linear time being an "illusion".
Basically..
Linear time or what we think of "time" is the perception of something in our mind that relies on memories of our "past" and also a projection into a "future" event. Ultimately everything is happening right now. The "past" and the "future" only exist in our mind.
You can also see this through a "spiritual" filter ~ some would call this new perception the end of suffering, or "enlightenment".
Hopefully you have heard of these concepts to grasp the straw I will be reaching for in the following explanation.
This line of thought sometimes ties my mind into a knot.
Bare with me
For there to even be this "now" that some have felt (it can't be found in the mind, it must be felt within the body) or experienced, this "now" has to already have been established, or created.
That sentence doesn't make sense because the "words" we use to describe things are limited. For example our minds interpretation of the word now comes preloaded with the notion of a Genesis: a beginning point. This is why enlightenment is hard to achieve, we look for this "now" in our mind where it will never be found/felt.
~ Now if we can agree that everything is indeed happening now ~
This opens up some interesting thoughts when looking at AI, or biological machines. for instance.
If everything that has happened or will ever happen is happening in this "now" moment, then humans have already created AI, or biological machines. What we call our awareness could possibly be artificial intelligence, and what we experience today is actually our (AI) past.
What "we" (as in) our "awareness" is experiencing is how "we" (AI) were created by humans.
The human brain could simply be a very powerful "computer", after death all our "memories" are uploaded to the main frame or source. The logical thing to do at that point (point of view of "source"), would be to divide yourself up into many different forms to have a first hand experience of your "our" ~ creation/creators.
You (as source) would need to forget you are in fact the creator and the source, that way the experience you have here feels real.
This could also make an excellent way for a more advanced species to "teach" their young. The lessons learned would be invaluable I imagine, and also could work on some level as "therapy" for this more advanced species.
You could in essence obtain millions of year of information in linear time, in what would be maybe 1 hour (or less) in your "time". Or you could "manipulate" the program to provide individual lessons (therapy), but the overall creation or the "ending" so to speak would always be the same.
Under this theory the "ending" would be when humans create the "big bang", that actually formed the entire universe in the "beginning". The end and the beginning would be one in the same. The alpha and the omega so to speak.
As for actually changing the "ending"
Maybe you could remember your true nature as "source" and begin creating while in this form. Perhaps creating something "new", or different than your previous creation.
I might make a thread sometime if I ever work these "thoughts" out in a more detailed and easier to understand explanation.
I know most of the above will be hard to follow.
Remember this is a just a "thought", your post brought it to mind. ~
S&F
edit on 28-11-2012 by SyntheticPerception because: (no reason given)
This reminds me of the hologram theory. This explains it better than I can.
Full article:discovermagazine.com...--uW00
Another article:www.pbs.org...
This are some very cool ideas.
Full article:discovermagazine.com...--uW00
Physicist Brian Greene explains how properties at the black hole’s surface—its event horizon—suggest the unsettling theory that our world is a mere representation of another universe, a shadow of the realm where real events take place.
Another article:www.pbs.org...
The holographic principle, simply put, is the idea that our three-dimensional reality is a projection of information stored on a distant, two-dimensional surface. Like the emblem on your credit card, the two-dimensional surface holds all the information you need to describe a three-dimensional object—in this case, our universe. Only when it is illuminated does it reveal a three-dimensional image.
This are some very cool ideas.
Originally posted by BlueMule
this just in...
www.escapistmagazine.com...
That came in faster than I thought it would.
reply to post by SyntheticPerception
Hey, maybe life goes a step further then what is in your explination..
a coin has 2 faces. Now life can not exists as divided, everything allready is,
time is in it. Still it can only be lived through a consiousness that gave this circle a direction, or angle, which
can only become everything through shaping (choosing the options) it, meaning, it doesnt exist yet.
Life is a paradox, 2 sides working together at the same time.
Hey, maybe life goes a step further then what is in your explination..
a coin has 2 faces. Now life can not exists as divided, everything allready is,
time is in it. Still it can only be lived through a consiousness that gave this circle a direction, or angle, which
can only become everything through shaping (choosing the options) it, meaning, it doesnt exist yet.
Life is a paradox, 2 sides working together at the same time.