Socioeconomics-Social Welfare vs Corporate Welfare: What should we be furious about?

I have recently commented on the fact that we need divert our attention from social welfare and look into corporate welfare. Although I agree some of our social welfare programs are being abused, I think there is a larger problem that is being censored.
I would like your opinions to a few questions:

Why is no one really concerned of the effects of trickledown economics and corporate welfare?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL2IyNGdJSo

Do fortune 500 hundred companies deserve welfare and subsidies to the benefit of the rich and shareholders, while cutting back on the workers and tax payers that build them?
thinkbynumbers.org...

While the companies that WE subsidize lower wages and fire employees while increasing demand on productivity; do the ones that have suffered the loss for maximization of profits not deserve some nominal form of protection, considering we pay into it?
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Why is acceptable for the wealthy to get welfare for their companies, then turn around and complain that the poor only want to be lazy and get "stuff", ignoring that they get the most stuff?
www.commondreams.org...

Why are churches supporting political parties, mainly R party? Could it be they like their stuff? Should they not pay also and chip in and help the budget? Especially when we have homeless starving children in our own boundaries, when the purpose of the tax break is to spend the money to combat social issues?
After all the collective wealth of the church is, well, plenty.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Can there be a lesson to learn from Apartheid, how a non-violent boycott can improve unfair conditions in a country?

Am I missing the reality? Should we be furious about all of it? Social welfare, corporate welfare, Dept of ED. ect?
While I do not believe anyone should be paying income tax and especially the Feds should not have first dibs to spend on any ole unconstitutional project they feel, it is unfortunately the cards we are now dealt and we need to manage it the best we can.
Please someone educate me and shed some light on why this is not really class warfare...

reply to post by Quailar


I'm furious about both. When it come to corporate welfare, I'm furious that corporations are able to associate with politicians, and those politicians can be invested in said corporations, mostly in their pension funds. If I'm a congressman, and I have a company in my pension fund or in my private portfolio, I should not be allowed to vote on legislation that will end up favoring that company. The biggest example of this is Exxon... Exxon is one of the biggest holdings in Congressional pension funds. Another aspect is that when a company fails or is on the verge of failing, the government comes in and bails them out. To be clear, a tax break is not corporate welfare, and most corporations get tax breaks for whatever reason. Corporate welfare is when the government writes a check to a corporation, and that happens all the time.

Social welfare should not exist at the federal level, it should be handled by the states. the system is corrupt and regularly abused, and the people that do that give good people who actually need a little help a bad name.

Definitely an issue. Good post.

The problem our society is having is the mindset that we can legislate our way out of problems, or in to progress. We have a superfluous tax code, on both the individual and corporate level.

We have a population that votes once every two years and forgets that they in fact are a member of a society with the capacity to do more than send someone to the capital and represent them.

On the side of social welfare, we need to develop communities more committed to taking care of the needy on a personal basis. This could cut a huge amount of the costs involved with benefits.

If I were to pick which is worse, I'd probably agree and lean toward corporate welfare. But I don't think I'd put any more blame on Republicans. Both sides essentially sell themselves to special interests.

My Cato Institute colleague Tad DeHaven has published a new study, “Corporate Welfare in the Federal Budget,” on business subsidies, which he figures to cost about $100 billion a year. Slashing corporate welfare obviously won’t balance the budget—which is why middle class and defense welfare also have to go on the chopping block. However, cutting business subsidies would be a good start to balancing the budget.

Forbes-good article about corporate welfare

Solving all of these problems starts with an educated electorate that holds their government accountable and makes improving the situation a part of their personal lives.

But sure, it'd be okay with me to cut subsidies for big farming, defense contractors, etc...but with both social and corporate, you can't eliminate them all in a short period because it would cause a serious shock to the system.

I have no problem giving perks to corporations as long as it is tied to domestic living wage job creation in a verifiable way, and they can prove that they are not going to pollute the environment. I am also OK with social welfare as long as its part of a pathway to self reliance and independence that is verifiable not some open ended license to irresponsibility. We need to stop just throwing money at issues with no strings or verifiability attached. If we do so we make persons or corporations into beggars.

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

Solving all of these problems starts with an educated electorate that holds their government accountable and makes improving the situation a part of their personal lives.

I have a fantasy in which the educated masses bundle up all those worthless green chits along with all those credit/debit cards and send them back to the fed res. The second part of my fantasy is the best part, though. That's where the educated masses get together and develop a currency that's truly of, by and for the people. The monied bunch wouldn't know what to do with all those piles of monopoly money if the uneducated masses refused to play their game.

That electorate thing is the throw of the dice (of which there are only two).

Originally posted by openminded2011
I have no problem giving perks to corporations as long as it is tied to living wage job creation in a verifiable way, and they can prove that they are not going to pollute the environment. I am also ok with social welfare as long as its part of a pathway to self reliance and independence that is verifiable. We need to stop just throwing money at issues with no strings or verifiability attached. If we do so we make persons or corporations into beggars.

This post is spot on. I only want to add if we took the first step in auditing/eliminating corporate welfare social welfare would automatically decrease.

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl

Originally posted by openminded2011
I have no problem giving perks to corporations as long as it is tied to living wage job creation in a verifiable way, and they can prove that they are not going to pollute the environment. I am also ok with social welfare as long as its part of a pathway to self reliance and independence that is verifiable. We need to stop just throwing money at issues with no strings or verifiability attached. If we do so we make persons or corporations into beggars.

This post is spot on. I only want to add if we took the first step in auditing/eliminating corporate welfare social welfare would automatically decrease.

I agree. We will end up paying either way. A good example is the recent refusal of employers like Papa John to add 14 cents to their cost for health care subsidization. Their refusal to do so only means that the money will have to come from another source, namely us. By refusing to pay, they are simply transferring the cost onto citizens. Its like a hidden tax. This happens in a multitude of ways already. We refuse to lower our carbon footprint becuase companies say its "too expensive and costs jobs". The result of the inaction is more extreme weather, costing billions of dollars and job loss that we the people end up paying anyway.

Originally posted by frazzle
The second part of my fantasy is the best part, though. That's where the educated masses get together and develop a currency that's truly of, by and for the people. The monied bunch wouldn't know what to do with all those piles of monopoly money if the uneducated masses refused to play their game.

That, IMO, is the only way we'll ever be free.
Theres a little town in the uk where they are attempting this idea, I'll see if I can find some info and post it here.

ETA:

Pic source
Free pdf on how to set up a local currency

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by frazzle
The second part of my fantasy is the best part, though. That's where the educated masses get together and develop a currency that's truly of, by and for the people. The monied bunch wouldn't know what to do with all those piles of monopoly money if the uneducated masses refused to play their game.

That, IMO, is the only way we'll ever be free.
Theres a little town in the uk where they are attempting this idea, I'll see if I can find some info and post it here.

True, this is happening in towns all over the world and its tolerated, but it will be of limited success unless and until it becomes a major factor in large economies where debt free currencies could gain a foothold in setting values.

Wouldn't it be cool if the people could tell the power companies how much we think their product is worth rather than the reverse? Or even better, how cool would it be if better and non-monopolistic sources of power could be developed without interference from the few who currently squash our natural inventiveness? A genuine CHOICE.

reply to post by VoidHawk


From your link:

OVESCO - The Ouse Valley Energy Services Company is one of Britain's first community owned renewable energy suppliers. The £2,000 grant from The Pound's Lewes Live Fund was a real boost to OVESCO and has really improved communication with those interested in OVESCO’s work.

I'm having a really bad case of deja vu or something!!

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

Wow thank you for that Forbes article; a really consolidated article on my perspective. I am also glad to have acquired the perspective that this is a bipartisan effort. I dont agree with his perspective on Leftist preferring big government, because thats a position that I dont share.

@VoidHawk - I am really digging the currency topic. We need to recognize that the only thing justifying the value of the dollar is our agreement and the promissory of the note issuer our government. A collective effort could really make a difference. There is a reason that gold and silver is not viable currency even though explicitly stated as legal tender in our Constitution...its to perpetuate this corrupt system.

I have been doing a google search for a lobbyist group that has the citizens interest in mind for fair and balanced business practices. Cant find any yet. It appears there may be need for a lobbyist or special interest group to go toe to toe with the other special interest. If you cant beat them join them, while at the same time lobbying for anti-lobbying. When we do it its called bribery, when they do it its called lobbying. Only thing, one is punishable by jail. I remember a story of citizen raising money for a cause and using it to lobby for that cause.

For all the talk of capitalism, our government appears to run more monopolies and a socio-capitalist (if thats even a word) business environment breading unfair competition.

This prison industrial complex should be of major concern to our citizens. Not only do we incarcerate 10x more than any other nation per capita, you add the war on drugs and privatizing the prison system and more corruption will seep into our lives. Soon we will be going to jail for voting......

It appears capitalism is running ramped and unchecked due to cronyism and special interest lobbying for government backing and privilege.

How do we educate our electorate to reclaim our country before its completely fascist, totalitarian, or authoritarian rule?
Is there a practical solution? Through non-profits, boycotting, strike, ect?

We need to find a collective way to terminate this modern day surfdom
We have become the peons paying the lord of the land for the right to breath his air.
The power is no longer in our hands, as we are no longer empowered to make educated decisions for ourselves. perhapse because they dont want us educated....

Originally posted by Quailar

Please someone educate me and shed some light on why this is not really class warfare...

That's not going to happen because it IS class warfare! You raised some very good points in your OP. There is an insane double standard and a lot of hypocrisy coming from those at the top of the pyramid. The problem is, many people are blind to it and can't see it or understand. That is clearly changing. I wouldn't even go as far as blaming corporate welfare or social welfare, the problem is GOVERNMENT! Government is simply people voluntarily giving their money to someone else to come up with solution to their problems and grant them authority over them. That makes it pretty easy to screw people when we accept Slavery By Consent.

New York Times has an interactive challenge to solve the deficit. I was able to balance the budget no problem and had surpluses to boot.
New York Times