The Naqada tomb 1863 - ancient Egyptian contact with Sumer, 5,500 years BP

The Sumerian Cylinder-Seal in Egypt: Everything starts in Naqada

It was in Naqada, in a small tomb called 1863 excavated by Flinders Petrie that the first documented evidence of trade between Sumer and the ancient Egyptians was found during the 1894-1895 excavations.

This first one of the two seals discovered by Petrie is a limestone cylinder left in tomb N 1863 and now preserved at the University College in London.

Dated to circa 5,500 years ago

The Naqada cylinder seal



Map showing the location of Naqada and example of its design and other Sumerian materials found in ancient Egypt



Chart showing similarity in styles between Sumer and Egypt - until the AE developed their own style of cylinder seal decoration and while the 'fad' of using cylinder seals lasted




PDF on Naqada tomb 1863 and the cylinder seal


Image of the seal and other items found in the tomb

The Naqada period and Naqada the place

In Ancient Egypt the location was known as Nubt and in classical antiquity as Ombos. Its name probably comes from ancient Egyptian word nub, meaning gold. Naqada was located near the gold mines in the Eastern Desert.

Naqada was made up of villages called Tukh, Khatara, Danfiq and Zawayda. It also stands near the site a necropolis from the prehistoric, pre-dynastic period around round 4400-3000 BC. Naqada gives its name to the Naqada culture that existed there and at other sites including el Badari, Gerzeh and Nekhen/Hierakonopolis.

PDF on the Naqada culture

Outstanding

Your work and time spent to create this post is very much appreciated. I've read much speculation on this topic over the years and read many posts/replies by those who have had their doubts and outright criticisms.

Vindication is always sweet

This isn't so surprising, is it? But it's nice to have confirmation. Thanks for posting this Hanslune. I'm looking forward to digging into those pdf's, and a little extracurricular research as well. S&F.

People always value 'first and or oldest'. However I'm going to check with some experts if there is any other earlier evidence.

reply to post by Hanslune


Does this tie in with the Qustul Incense Burner at all?

Nice work by the way!

Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Does this tie in with the Qustul Incense Burner at all?

Nice work by the way!

Its an interesting piece, deserving a thread of its own from about the same period if a bit later (200 or so years nearer our time) that shows that the Nubians may have been more organized than previously thought. I don't know the full story on the artifact at this time.

hey hanslune

so NUB means gold

so does kanuz...

naqada on the east cost of the nile...and nekhen/abydos on the west side...

naqada - seth
nekhen - horus
abydos - osiris

as the religion states in the edfu temple

naqada was the strongest, oldest area
nekhen and abydos together...became the rulers of the state

yet many pharaohs in the first 2 dynasties..paid homage to the area


so basically....naqada was the centre, before the unified state

the family lines from nekhen and abydos made memphis the centre when the state was unified


BTW - STOP USING THE WORD NUBIAN TO DESCRIBE ANCIENT TRIBES.....ITS A MODERN GENERIC TERM FOR BLACKS....

if you know the name of the nome...use that...ALL PHARAOHS FROM MENES TO TAHARAQ ARE NUBIAN..
but some were, memphites, thebans, ku#es, from punt etcetc


your not an ignorant 1920s historian trying to rewrite history and steal from the local population, your not a roman, or a persian...so whats with the confused lies...

ALL PHARAOHS ARE NUB-IAN..which means..GOLD-IAN

Originally posted by thePharaoh
BTW - STOP USING THE WORD NUBIAN TO DESCRIBE ANCIENT TRIBES.....ITS A MODERN GENERIC TERM FOR BLACKS....

STOP MAKING STUFF UP AND SHOUTING ABOUT IT WITH CAPS!!

Nubian: a native or inhabitant of Nubia
b: a member of one of the group of dark-skinned peoples that formed a powerful empire between Egypt and Ethiopia from the 6th to the 14th centuries
2
: any of several languages spoken in central and northern Sudan

This thread is about the Naqada tomb and the connection between Sumer and AE.

Thats strange in what extend Mesopotamia influenced Egypt. How come that they invent own writting system?

Originally posted by cowgomoo
Thats strange in what extend Mesopotamia influenced Egypt. How come that they invent own writting system?

They had started their own system prior to any meanful contact. Trade in the early times was probably conducted by the 'pass on method' and not direct contact, ie items from Sumer arrived in AE after passing thru numerous middle-,men, so if they got a sample of the other civilizations writing they wouldn't have been able to understand it.

AE probably influenced Mesopotamia too the paper above makes the presumption that the influence is one way. At this point I don't know which civilization influence which more- its a matter of much debate

Originally posted by Hanslune

Nubian: a native or inhabitant of Nubia
b: a member of one of the group of dark-skinned peoples that formed a powerful empire between Egypt and Ethiopia from the 6th to the 14th centuries
2
: any of several languages spoken in central and northern Sudan

what a load of BS....between egypt and ethiopia???...they were the AE!, anyone else is asian, libyan, or african

and sudan???...nubians are in egypt ...ie aswan, luxor, etcetc...and their was NO other race in this area except for invading asiatics


i`ll keep shouting... while you keep your fingers in your ears

This thread is about the Naqada tomb and the connection between Sumer and AE.

so the oldest relics in south egypt..are influenced by sumer???...why couldnt it be the other way around?



NUBIAN is not a seperate race....and are not black africans...if anything they are light skinned africans..maybe gold (nub),,,


anyway..keep losing yourself...petrie , reisner, carter and the rest, and their ignorant views on the make up of egypt and africa....is why you will never learn.


BTW - naqada is in nubian land..MODERN nubian land

Originally posted by Hanslune
At this point I don't know which civilization influence which more- its a matter of much debate

edit on 23/11/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

Far as I understand Mesoptamia influenced Egypt. Writing system in Egypt dates from 3150 and from Mesopotamia 3300. From your provided picture influnce was already done.

Originally posted by cowgomoo

Originally posted by Hanslune
At this point I don't know which civilization influence which more- its a matter of much debate

edit on 23/11/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

Far as I understand Mesoptamia influenced Egypt. Writing system in Egypt dates from 3150 and from Mesopotamia 3300. From your provided picture influnce was already done.

Yes, I was speaking of art in general - but they developed completely different writing systems. As noted it probable that two Sumerian's or AE's capable of writing ever met in the the time prior to development. The development of Sumerian has a long history, not so much AFAIK with the AE hieroglyphs, the AE were late to the game and started out slowly

reply to post by Hanslune


Wonderful! I don't think anyone really recognizes the massive range of information ATS presents. This site is like the jack of all trades but master of none. I browse the threads constantly for clues on where to go digging next for my own personal research into the world and its history and have found ATS (surprisingly) to be the most valuable location for such.

Always appreciate the higher caliber threads I find here.

Thank you much.

Originally posted by thePharaoh
i`ll keep shouting... while you keep your fingers in your ears

No actually I'm just laughing at a racist


This thread is about the Naqada tomb of 1863 keep it on topic

Originally posted by thePharaoh

nekhen - horus

Do you believe that Horus was real person? That he ruled in Egypt? If so when?

Originally posted by cowgomoo

Originally posted by thePharaoh

nekhen - horus

Do you believe that Horus was real person? That he ruled in Egypt? If so when?

no....well...the pharaoh has his everlasting BA

in the religious ideology where seth kills osiris..after his death horus grows and beats seth

this has been heavily linked with actual events...naqada overtakes abydos....nekhen grows...and takes over the state....the predynastic kings, iry hor, scorpio and narmer from nekhen

deep innit

Originally posted by cowgomoo

Originally posted by thePharaoh

nekhen - horus

Do you believe that Horus was real person? That he ruled in Egypt? If so when?

I bet you he don't believe Osiris was a real person because that would mean having to go with what the edfu text states ie that Osiris (king Assure) was not from Africa but sailed there and founded the Egyptian civilization hahaha!

Originally posted by LUXUS

Originally posted by cowgomoo

Originally posted by thePharaoh

nekhen - horus

Do you believe that Horus was real person? That he ruled in Egypt? If so when?

I bet you he don't believe Osiris was a real person because that would mean having to go with what the edfu text states ie that Osiris (king Assure) was not from Africa but sailed there and founded the Egyptian civilization hahaha!

Howdy Luxus

Link to source please - a real source if you don't mind.......you do realize that the AE showed him as green or black?

reply to post by Hanslune


Its a very common theme in ancient Egyptian art, Osiris on a solar boat with the rest of the nine neteru arriving from the sunken island variously named as the Island of conflict, the island of tramplings or the pay lands. Essentially the story is about a war which takes place on this island, the destruction of the temple of the falcon, the sinking of the island and Osiris and the neteru escaping to Egypt.






books.google.co.uk... X&ei=i1azUIfBFJOV0QX2kYCACA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAg

books.google.co.uk... 4BJdrDgtcHyA63Ens&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p1WzUM_kFu2N0wWDwoHIAQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=edfu%20island%20to%20conflict%20peace%20tramplings&f=false