Nov 29th - Palestinian UN bid - another flashpoint incoming

This could have major implications and should be monitored closely. To say that Israel will want to avoid the Palestinians gaining UN Observer status would be putting it mildly! Here is a brief overview for those not familiar with the situation.

What is UN Observer status?

Observers have the right to speak at United Nations General Assembly meetings, participate in procedural votes, and to sponsor and sign resolutions,[clarification needed] but not to vote on resolutions and other substantive matters. Various other rights (e.g. to speak in debates, to submit proposals and amendments, the right of reply, to raise points of order and to circulate documents, etc.) are given selectively to some observers only. So far, the EU is the only international organisation to hold these enhanced powers.[2]

Source: Wiki article

Israel has major concerns about this happening. Obviously, they don't want the Palestinians to have a voice at the UN.....or any kind of legitimacy. Even though (if successful in their bid) the Palestinians won't actually wield any real power at the UN, it will make life very, very difficult for Israel. If successful, it could also potentially lead to Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem becoming official Palestinian states in the future. Another random tidbit...

Israel also says it fears that the Palestinians will use their enhanced status to try to gain entry to the International Criminal Court, where it could seek to prosecute Israel for its actions in those territories, like the building of Jewish settlements.

Source: NY Times article

How likely are the Palestinians to succeed in their bid?

There is little doubt that a vote will pass; the Palestinians are expected to win a majority of the member votes in the General Assembly.

Source NY Times article

Remember - this is the General Assembly, so the US will not be able to veto this!

So what does Israel have to say about this?

“The adoption of the decision will in our view represent a violation of the agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization” and “will give Israel the right to review and consider the full or partial cancellation of the agreements,” it stated. It added that a General Assembly decision would have “grave consequences” and that Israel could respond with “unilateral measures,” without elaborating.

Source NY Times article

Israeli Finance Minister, Yuval Steinitz

“I am not in favor of crushing the Palestinian Authority, but if we have no choice in the face of a strategic threat, we should not fear taking such measures,” said Steinitz in an interview to Israel Radio.

Source Times of Israel article

So there we have it. Could this be why Israel called up so many reserves for the Gaza operation, only to agree to the cease-fire.....which everybody thought was a surprise? I am sure there was more to that whole operation than we realize right now.....whether it had something to do with this issue or the Iran issue, we'll have to wait and see.

reply to post by Curio

Obviously, they don't want the Palestinians to have a voice at the UN.....or any kind of legitimacy.

Some would argue that is why the most recent "defensive" attack on Gaza ensued. In a bid to demonize the Palestinian's, Israel may in fact have instead revealed their own over dramatized stance on Gaza and the West Bank.

Swatting flies with a sledgehammer.

reply to post by intrptr


And the statements from both Iran and Hamas proving that Iran was arming and aiding attacks on Israel,could have been the reason hostilities ceased? it could have been the reason it all began,to draw in Iran ?,to further justify an attack on it by Israel..who knows

reply to post by all2human

Iran is not going to attack Israel, dude. In fact they haven't attacked anybody in... how many years? The West would be looking for just such an excuse to open hostilities. Iran will be very carefully peaceful.

When the same push for Iran begins militarily the whole propaganda campaign against them will be as contrived as it has been against every other Middle Eastern nation.

Victors write history.

reply to post by intrptr

I'm not taking sides but you think this is peaceful ?
www.vosizneias.com...
www.breitbart.com...
Keep an eye out on East Africa
antiwar.com...
www.liveleak.com...
www.youtube.com...
reason.com...
csis.org...

the u.s. would always support israel in the current political structure, it could lead to the dissolution of the u.n.

with this diplomatic avenue closed, tension, mistrust and isolation between the countries could escalate and the world could easily plunge into war.

Originally posted by randomname
the u.s. would always support israel in the current political structure, it could lead to the dissolution of the u.n.

with this diplomatic avenue closed, tension, mistrust and isolation between the countries could escalate and the world could easily plunge into war.

Are your eyes and ears closed! What do you mean by plunge into war? The world is at war. US and it's allies vs the middle east. Has been ongoing for a very long time. What about all the current and recent wars either fully engaged by the US or using proxies.

How many wars do you have to have.

How many innocent lives lost does it take.

WE HAVE PLUNGED INTO WAR!

We are in the thick of it right now. Wake up!

(Nothing personal )

P

reply to post by all2human

I don't really trust the Israeli media to be forthcoming and unbiased about anything in the Middle East. Thanks for the other links below that though. I enjoyed reading about US involvement in Somalia.

Funny you just put this up. I just read this news on Haaretz. Clinton warning Bibi about not to take any extreme actions in response to the Palestinian move in the United Nations for recognition as a non-member state.

www.haaretz.com...

reply to post by Curio

Wait, I thought they were trying to "wipe izrael off the map"?

Never-mind:

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Curio

 

Obviously, they don't want the Palestinians to have a voice at the UN.....or any kind of legitimacy.

Some would argue that is why the most recent "defensive" attack on Gaza ensued. In a bid to demonize the Palestinian's, Israel may in fact have instead revealed their own over dramatized stance on Gaza and the West Bank.

Swatting flies with a sledgehammer.

I think the recent struggle has everything to do with this, but not from the same standpoint as most.

If you do some research, you'll find that Hamas and Iran are very much against a Palestinian state. For Palestine to exist, they would have to recognize Israel as a state too, and Hamas and Iran won't stand for it (or the other extremists for that matter).

I'm obviously not the only one who thinks this. Here's an article dated November 16th discussing the start of the struggle.

Chief Palestinian peace negotiator Saeb Erekat, whose efforts to achieve a treaty with Israel are scorned by Hamas as treason, said Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's "efforts are focused on one thing: deescalate the violence and save lives in Gaza. That's what we're hoping for."

"No amount of pressure can stop our efforts at the United Nations" to obtain a General Assembly vote at the end of the month granting observer status to the Palestinian territories, including the Gaza Strip, West Bank and East Jerusalem, he said.

Hamas rejects the diplomacy of Abbas outright. But Erekat said: "It is our brothers' and sisters' blood. This is no time for internal squabbles or pointing fingers."

and...

Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist.

By contrast, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who rules in the nearby West Bank, does recognize Israel, but peace talks between the two sides have been frozen since 2010.

Abbas's supporters say they will push ahead with a plan to have Palestine declared an "observer state" rather than a mere "entity" at the United Nations later this month.

From my understanding, the vote is set to take place on November 29th.

news.yahoo.com...

Wasn't the UN heavily involved in the creation process of Israel?

I guess that already makes them bias in a way, so if Palestine joining the UN would be such a catastrophe don't you think it wouldn't happen at all? Mess with the votes etc?

If Israel is scared of lawsuits then Palestine should be scared too, I think looking at almost 60 years of conflict over there both sides have lost their innocence. Whether you think one side is right or not both sides are murderers now and have civilian blood on their hand.

Maybe I'm an idiot for thinking this is not as big a deal as it maybe sounds but feel free to verbally kick my behind in this regard. Not my strongest topic

Seriously, outside of religion, what gives another country, man or woman the right to suppress or deligitimize the voice, grievance and beliefs of another person or be chosen people of anything?

The easy solution to this whole thing to me, is to go back to the original territories that were agreed upon at the last treaty in the 60's, go look at a map, there are a bunch of videos out there that attempt to explain this mess, you can go do your own debating and research, but it seems that the dehumanization of others and then minimizing their voice seems to be the strategy those that think like NetanYayhoo are attempting to use on the Palestinians.

In all fairness if there is an issue between two parties why should only one of them have official representation when it comes to land disputes, I really don't see why anyone would protest the Palestinians having some say at the U.N.

We have to move past this nonsense honestly


Some history

Some more background on the problem

I find this situation very unexpected.
Maybe I'm paranoid but there's more to this.

reply to post by Deetermined

Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist.

Yah, I hear that once in a while. The source you name this time is Yahoo. I didn't catch the author of that statement though in your link.

Here is a more specific "opinon" or two from Israel and it cites the source.

“The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.
---
Eli Yishai, Israel's deputy prime minister, declared: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years."

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...

I hope you watched some of the footage over the duration of the "flattening of Gaza", for you would have maybe noticed who was flattening who...

reply to post by intrptr

Yah, I hear that once in a while. The source you name this time is Yahoo. I didn't catch the author of that statement though in your link.

All you need to do to confirm what Hamas believes in is to look up their Charter, dated 1988. It states specifically that they will NEVER recognize Israel as a state because they believe the land belongs to the Muslims. They claim that recognizing Israel would be the equivalent of denouncing Islam.

As for Hamas being elected into Gaza's government, they were elected under false pretenses. Hamas made the Palestinians promises that they had no intention of keeping.

Keep an eye on Egypt. You're getting ready to see the same situation go down there too with the Muslim Brotherhood. Morsi just took away the power of the judiciary and declared his authority above all others.

reply to post by Deetermined

All you need to do to confirm what Hamas believes in is to look up their Charter, dated 1988. It states specifically that they will NEVER recognize Israel as a state because they believe the land belongs to the Muslims. They claim that recognizing Israel would be the equivalent of denouncing Islam.

Well they were kicked off their lands by the Jews in 1948, right? So the most extremist view is to deny the Israelis that land right back. Native American Indians might have something in common with Palestinians there.

Keep an eye on Egypt. You're getting ready to see the same situation go down there too with the Muslim Brotherhood. Morsi just took away the power of the judiciary and declared his authority above all others.

I am. Seems the dictatorship and extremist government of Mubarak has been replaced by the you guessed it, the extreme dictatorship of Rosi. After all that Arab Spring struggle and successful ouster of Mubarak and then elections, it seems that Egypt is waking up to find another puppet of the US lording it over them.

And they won't tolerate it. Have you seen Tahir square in the news?

rt.com...

reply to post by intrptr

After all that Arab Spring struggle and successful ouster of Mubarak and then elections, it seems that Egypt is waking up to find another puppet of the US lording it over them.

I've got news for you. Morsi is no U.S. puppet and he's already declared as much. He'll be a dictator, but he'll end up proving to be a dictator on the side of extremist Muslims. At best, he'll turn out like Ahmadinejad, giving the U.S. a lot of lip service while smuggling arms to terrorist organizations and claiming a lot of false flags by Israelis. Just wait.

Edit to Add: Personally, I'll be paying specific attention to any future meetings between Morsi and Erdogan.

reply to post by Deetermined

Morsi is no U.S. puppet and he's already declared as much.

Look at his actions though. He is setting himself up in the same stead as Mubarak. He is just replacing Mubarak. With the US armed and financially backed military, there really has been no change from what the Egyptians poured all their heart into last two years. So he has fooled some of his people and the western media paints him in a nice light. Means little.

It also remains to be seen. This peace process with Israel was "brokered" there but I really see no lasting peace, just a cease fire. 72 hours are up tomorrow on that too. We'll see where Norsi stands...

reply to post by intrptr

So he has fooled some of his people and the western media paints him in a nice light. Means little.

He has not only fooled his people, he has fooled the west. They just don't realize it yet.