Afghans protest Remembrance Day ceremony in Canada.

reply to post by intrepid


I guess someone should make this people (afghans) understand that in countries where freedom is respected they have as much reason to express their disappointment as those that are honored to keep it alive.

You are right, if they do not like what Canada is celebrating they should be gathered put in planes and drop them back to their country of origin.

Then some question why I always seem to post the agendas of certain groups rather than embracing another nations ways many immigrants seems to want to destroy those ways.

Do you need anymore evidence?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Yes, I agree that we've done some good. I don't think that good can be used to justify the atrocities commited by our military and others over the course of the last 20 years.

To start with I don't give a damn about "others". I'm talking about our own here. What atrocities are you referring to? That Afghan women have never had more rights? I'll give you the one in Africa. That was terrible and was dealt with. A whole regiment decommissioned.

reply to post by intrepid


It seems like you are saying "you have more rights now, so stop complaining about your dead family"...

She could have done/said the same thing wherever she was.

I always thought of Remembrance Day as a day to remember the damage wars do.
Not a celebration, but a day of mourning those that have died in the wars, both civilians and soldiers, on our side, and those that once were thought of as enemies.

That's what we were taught in school, as we had a moment of silence for lives lost.

It seems wrong that a day of mourning ALL dead, could be protested.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by intrepid

 

It seems like you are saying "you have more rights now, so stop complaining about your dead family"...

She could have done/said the same thing wherever she was.

She can say that there NOW. She couldn't have then. Have there been civilian casualties? Of course. Are you saying that the Taliban didn't subjugate and kill their own before other countries became involved? I'm missing the point here.

reply to post by intrepid


Intrepid.

We did NOTHING as a 1st world power to stop the genocide occuring in Middle Eastern Nations. We openly supported a war that killed 500 thousand civilians over the course of 10 years in both Afghanistan and Iraq ( although we had very little to do with that).

Our lack of support and our SILENCE during these atrocities make us as guilty as the rest of them. There's a whole other situation in Afghanistan that I won't get into due to the limitations of the T&C regarding the topic, but you know what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, I just cannot respect a 21st century military that no longer protects innocents, but works for those who line each other's pockets with the spoils of war. I'm all for a strong military and I'm all for defending our nation, but that fight begins at home.

It does not include the occupation and national building of foreign countries for decades at a time. You can say that women in Afghanistan have more rights than they did, but we didn't do that.

The Afghan people did that.

~Tenth

In England our remembrance days have also suffered this type of intrusion.
What they don’t seem to understand is that we do not stand in remembrance of the policies that sent our loved ones to distant lands, never to return to us. We stand in remembrance of those we lost.

When you see those in attendance, standing in silent contemplation, they are thinking off and remembering particular individuals, sons and fathers, brothers and uncles, mothers and daughters, close friends and colleagues. They care not for policies, ideologies, concepts or dogmas.

It is not a time for debate as to the historical rights or wrongs of the circumstances that pertained to the times. That will always be left to another time and place. It is a very personal time to remember those we loved and lost.

We also understand that they will not fully comprehend the irony that allows them their protestations that would, on the other hand, be dealt with severely under the very regimes they pronounce to defend.

Rest in peace uncle bob, for you did what you thought was right for those you did not know.
Always remembered, always loved.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I'm sorry, I just cannot respect a 21st century military that no longer protects innocents, but works for those who line each other's pockets with the spoils of war. I'm all for a strong military and I'm all for defending our nation, but that fight begins at home.

That's your opinion and that's fine. Don't respect them BUT don't disrespect them, especially on Remembrance Day.

You can say that women in Afghanistan have more rights than they did, but we didn't do that.

The Afghan people did that.

~Tenth

Riiiggghhhhtttttttt. The Taliban were going to loosen up all on their own.

reply to post by intrepid


I never advocated disrespect, you know that.

What I'm stating is that these women have every right and reason to be upset with our military for their actions in Afghanistan.

Regardless of how better things have gotten for one sect of society, the fact remains that we've been an accessory to the destruction of nations for the benefits of others, not our fellow citizens.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


She is very upset and have the right to be, but I beg you pardon, she should be complaining in her country of origin, right?, oh, I forgot, in her country she could have been killed for even opening her mouth to complain.

You know sadly is an irony, that the same freedoms that many of this immigrants seek in other countries are shadow by hidden agendas when they show no respect for the hostess countries traditions and laws.

And that is what is eating me away, until this day I can not find anybody that can prove me wrong of the way I feel.

reply to post by marg6043


Thanks Marg. You gave me food for thought. Is it an agenda or is it something "new" that they have to learn how to use? Like using a butter knife all your life with meat and then someone gives you a steak knife. You have to use the latter one more carefully. Growing pains?

ETA: The point being is that because one CAN do something, SHOULD they do that thing?

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


You use the word colony in your post and it is a good thing to remember because as you argue for Your colony never forget what happened to the natives who are the true original un-imported peoples of all of North America. Remember and see how well your argument holds up. Force will always breed rebellion no matter the intentions.

But as for this particular situation, I think that it is the level of dis-respect that is shown which truly ruffled the feathers of the patriotic Canadian. We must get used to the new world opinion of Canada. We've ridden the U.S. coat tails into war often enough that now even good old polite Canada will be stained by the same world opinion . People are not only sick of the U.S. but sick of the Western Worlds heavy handed tactics. Unfortunately this is just a taste of the outrage that is felt towards Canada, better get used to it.

reply to post by luciddream

When, in this case, people of middle east see the remembrance day, they see that we are celebrating the results of Afghan War and their dead family members.

But they are wrong though aren't they.
If they could put aside their own ignorance for a while and try to understand what Remembrance Day is actually about maybe they'd have more of an appreciation of it.

Its all about invading and collecting assets or alternative agenda.

Same as it's always been.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I respect those who lost their lives, but in the end, they lost their lives because of gready bureaucrats and oligarchs. We should be OUTRAGED that ANY Canadian died for the benefit of them.

Indeed.
Which was why so many Servicemen demanded changes when they returned from both WWI and WWII, many of the rights and freedoms we have today, including the right to protest at Remembrance parades etc, are down to the sacrifices they made - that in itself should be enough to warrant our respect and a moments remembrance.

reply to post by intrepid


And if they do, repercussion for their actions should tolerated and even enforced, perhaps somebody should take the time to make this people remember from where they come from and what they have accomplished thanks to the countries that open their arms to them and welcome them.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Well said. My point was a bit "devil's advocate" in nature in pointing out an irony of a weaker American military...others will end up picking up the slack to some degree or, even worse, the future events will be worse sucking the US back into it when things are out of hand.

An isolationist US is part of the ingredients that allowed the Nazis to do far more damage than would have occured had the US responded as Canada had done in '39.....

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by intrepid

 

And if they do, repercussion for their actions should tolerated and even enforced, perhaps somebody should take the time to make this people remember from where they come from and what they have accomplished thanks to the countries that open their arms to them and welcome them.

I'd suggest Canada adopt Americas solution to freedom of expression. Simply move said protester to
" FREE SPEECH ZONES " these are generally located far enough from an event that protest becomes quite pointless. ( Sarcasm )
It is also encouraging to see the Canadian MSM are as incompetent as our own.
You need to see the Veterans Days in America. IT IS A NON EVENT. Not that I blame folks. I assume they are deluded ( as was I ) as the ones who lived or died in war.. You also do NOT know what part of Afghanistan these ladies are from ( If at all ) The North is like a different country from the South. Additionally they are obviously very PO'd about something. Learning to read ( Minority ) vs having your family killed by friendly forces 120.000 non combatants per Mil Doc. Kind of a no brainer on the PO'd scale. Just speculating here. Cheers

Originally posted by ThoughtIsMadness
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

You use the word colony in your post and it is a good thing to remember because as you argue for Your colony never forget what happened to the natives who are the true original un-imported peoples of all of North America. Remember and see how well your argument holds up. Force will always breed rebellion no matter the intentions.

But as for this particular situation, I think that it is the level of dis-respect that is shown which truly ruffled the feathers of the patriotic Canadian. We must get used to the new world opinion of Canada. We've ridden the U.S. coat tails into war often enough that now even good old polite Canada will be stained by the same world opinion . People are not only sick of the U.S. but sick of the Western Worlds heavy handed tactics. Unfortunately this is just a taste of the outrage that is felt towards Canada, better get used to it.

I understand the word colony or colonization perfectly as I am part Beothuk, have a military engineering background and have a great deal of interest in the mechanics of politics. Personally, I would like to see political, financial and ecological operations more along the lines of the North American Indians, eg. leave things better than you found them and that we are stewards of the land, we must think seven generations ahead and know that the actions we take must be positive as they will impact those future generations.

As far as the disrespect for Rememberance Day, I am ideologically fractured. I certainly see the point in respecting the dead who have given their lives (probably in naivety), even if the cause was wrong. But then consider that this whole thing was originally about opium and I have to wonder why an icon is used that is indicative of the drug trade? Unless of course it is part of a social programming agenda.

And, btw, we don't know who was in North America first and we certainly don't know if the North American Indians didn't displace some other group. We certainly know that the North American Indians were here before the Europeans, if the history books are correct. Our past as a species however, is brutal and the colonialization extends to today as evidenced by the US and their (extorted) alies. I am pretty disgusted with our part in any wars that do not involve the defense of Canada, but I don't blame the soldiers, I blame the politicians and the IMF/World Bank. An offensive action never really helps anyone, but the greedy.

A teacher once told me after an altercation, "snuffing out someone else's candle will not make yours glow brighter."

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by snowspirit

I used to wonder if the pilots in WW2 ever considered how the stuff they dropped affected civilians and I never did find out, from them although I did work witha disillusioned resistance fighter.

This year I watched the national TV ceremony, and to be honest it turned me off. So much attention paid to the military and that's all well and good, but nowhere did I see any balance: Where was the damage about what our ordnance and military did to families and societies they intervened with? It really should be about war and its horrible effects on everyone, not about people wearing medals.

With more and more immigrants coming to our cities just like our ancestors did, we have to be more sensitive and inclusive of their war baggage too. I believe it's time for a rethink.

the overwhelming message i take away from threads like this is - the unbriddled hypocrisy

I have only one war I support the celebration of and that was for my countries independence. All the wars after that including the civil war were fought over money and how to sell more bombs and ammunitions.

Celebration of war, old or new is disgusting, and the more that continue to pin these morons up as heroes the more it will continue. Until we can shame our governments and society into thinking war is as bad as racism or sexism. Then less people will think its heroic to run off to another country to kill children they don't even know for a war started by people for the soul purpose of making money. Bombs don't last forever ya know so we gotta keep finding a way to use them. Funny how one keeps popping up just in time to keep the factories running.


Besides , people can spew all day about how these people should "go home" A if you don't support their right to speech what did your supposed heroes fight for? What kind of democracy is that. B what happens when its the people that live in the country that still don't support it? C what happens when the majority of a country doesn't want it, is it time for the country to move? D what happens when its veterans that speak out against wars and tributes to them, should we then shun the very people you want to glorify, when they have been to these wars to come back and tell us its a BS scam?

You can pretend all wars are just, but at the end of the day, its the same people/same families making money off these wars for hundreds of years now while the simple folks get wrapped up in being a hero and killed. A strong defense is just as good as a strong offense, any football team can tell you that, so why promote the killing of people through wars unless, its to make money?