Are the Religious right and the Republicans joining forces to take over America?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
The fundamentalist so-called 'Christian' nationalists have been trying to infiltrate the republican party for years, decades now in fact, noteably since Reagan's time.

Yes and I agree with you but the problem is that they already are in, they already holding some key positions at state level and they have a lot of pull in capitol hill.

That's scary

Big News.

Pat Robertson is going to be forming a new party for the 2008 election if President Bush doesnt endorse the further expansion of Israel.

This should split the reds right down the middle.

I don't understand everyones problem here.

What does it matter what the reason for wanting to change policy. Seperation of Church and State does NOT mean that people can not act on their beliefs in lawmaking UNLESS they are not Christian, Muslim, jewish etc.

Makes no sense, stretching it out so that in your mind, if it follows Christian beliefs, we should do the opposite right?

Because they are the bigots right?

Look in the mirror.

Originally posted by RR98
friday2112, I disagree......at the very worst, the most radical of the "Religious Right" would have us, as a society, return to the legal state of the 1950's, which actually wasn't such a bad time.

If you dont count Whites only bathrooms, schools, etc.

Laws against Blacks and Whites getting married, women dying from back ally abortions, KKK rallies against blacks and Jews, etc.

If you will read the links I provided you will see that SOME of the religious right want ro take MUCH futher than that. They want a CHRISTAN ONLY government with laws STRIGHT out of the Bible, including punishments like stoning.

They claim the the freedom of religion means freedom of a CHRISTAN RELIGION only, no Jews, Muslims, Buddests,etc

"And how do you terrorize an evil doer?" he asked. "You enforce Biblical law!" The purpose of government, he said, is "to protect the church of Jesus Christ," and, "Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol!" "There ain't no such thing" as religious pluralism, he declared. Further, "There has never been such a condition in the history of mankind. There is no such place now. There never will be." "What is Christian Reconstructionism?" by Frederick Clarkson, The Public Eye.

Does this sound like a return to "Happy Days" to you? He plainly states that US government should enforce this not only in THIS country but WORLDWIDE.

While I do not think this is representive of 99% of Christians, we have seen right on this Board how a handful of fanatics will try to FORCE EVERYONE to obey the laws of their religion. Maybe they should worry about THESE people before they start bashing others.

This is where we ALL walk a thin line between OUR freedom and interfering in others lives. Every nation must have laws but they should interfere as little as possible in peoples lives and allow as much personal freedom as possible.

Freedom doesnt mean "you free to do as I think you should" and although there is not and shouldnt be a law that you have to like a person or group you DO have to allow them the the right to live their life as thet see fit as long as they are not harming directly another person.

The rights you so cheerfuly strip away from others today may very well be the same rights they cheerfuly strip from you tommorow.

Originally posted by Amuk

Laws against Blacks and Whites getting married, women dying from back ally abortions, KKK rallies against blacks and Jews, etc.

They claim the the freedom of religion means freedom of a CHRISTAN RELIGION only, no Jews, Muslims, Buddests,

I agree with you on that, we are not talking about "all Christian" groups but the hard core fundamentalist, they want judges in key positions, they want political power and they are going to get it but they are not hiding their intentions.

Yes Amuk not matter what, you take all rights that are deem wrong for them in the eyes of "god" by fundamentalist and we are going to have persecutions, and women are going to go back to the death sentence of back door coat hanger abortions because wanted or not women WILL have abortions not matter what the law said, and teens WILL have sex not matter what "religion" tells them.

This thread has got the discusion started that I tried to get with the Black/White Agenda thread

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I don't understand everyones problem here.

All Christians are not Bigots JUST like all gays arent childmolesters.

I dont have any problem with someone following their beliefs in office its when they expect ME to follow their beliefs that I have a problem.

That is why our founding father gave us a seperation of church and state. I can not stress enough that this is a TINY portion of Christians and I am not saying by any means that this is main stream BUT people like Falwell and Robinson are a threat to religious freedom in the USA, not to even mention the fringe elements like those I posted.

Most Christians are good people, since I have been off recovering from surgery three different churches have collected food and money amounting to quite a bit. When a thread is started about Gays everyone jumps in to there defense, and should, where are those defending the Christains and THEIR lifestyle?

They like EVERYONE else should be allowed to live as they see fit as long as they dont bother anyone else.

But they should not expect to judge others by the kooks in their group and not expect to be judge the same way

I agree with you again Amuk, one thing is having people exercising their constitutional right to worship whatever they want and then on another side you have the ones that want you to worship and believe what they tell you, and that is my problem and why I don't beleive in religious organizations, because I don't need anybody as an adult to tell me what to do and what to believe.

And also I don't need not religious group tell me what to do with my constitutional rights either.

One thing some of you might consider is the possibility (I would say high probability) that many people claiming to be Christians are the farthest thing from, especially those in positions of power. True Christianity is a dangerous element in any nation. It is liberating, enlightening, uncompromising, and can transform even the most timid sheep into a fiery and courageous lions.

Therefore the Power Elite understand very well that where Christianity must be subverted and corrupted at all costs (for attempting to eradicate it only makes it stronger). The easiest way to do this is to institutionalize it. For the moment Christianity goes beyond organization and becomes a formal institution it ceases to be the Way of Life taught by Yahshua HaMashiach (whom most know as Jesus Christ). A true relationship with Yahweh (God) is always a choice. It can never be legislated or enforced by mortal men. True Christianity should not seek to manipulate and control, only to find and gather those children for whom it was meant in the first place. The Message of Christ is an invitiation to life, love, and freedom for those who have been chosen to receive it.

Perhaps not many realize this, but true Christians who actually read the Bible and live their lives accordingly are often extremely troublesome to any form of man-made government. This is because they will only give their absolute loyalty and allegiance to Yahweh and never to any human king or president. They will be obedient to just laws, but they will not willingly submit to anything which contradicts the laws of God.

True Christians are anathema to the current capitalist so-called democratic federal American government, for they are not greedy or materialistic, do not blindly trust other men, and do not live in terror of death. Authentic followers of Christ have faith when others fear, hope when others despair, and love when others hate. They are also brave, wise, humble, honest, merciful, and generous among many other admirable qualities. They are certainly not perfect, but they are constantly striving to be. Yahweh has set eternity in their hearts. They are the dreamers who will dream forever. They never give up. They fight for the day when they will finally be able to love without fear, to experience eternal life and everlasting love in all its glory. To be together always. To see God's face.

Originally posted by Ischyros

Therefore the Power Elite understand very well that where Christianity must be subverted and corrupted at all costs (for attempting to eradicate it only makes it stronger). The easiest way to do this is to institutionalize it. For the moment Christianity goes beyond organization and becomes a formal institution it ceases to be the Way of Life taught by Yahshua HaMashiach (whom most know as Jesus Christ). .

I agree 100%

A marriage of Church and state only corrupts both. This is something that seems hard for most to understand that or fore fathers seperated them for the sake of BOTH of them. They had seen what happened in europe when the two merged. When the church and state are one it becomes an absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely if you remember

Wait, we are not allowed to have rules based on Christianity?

Why? Many of them already are, and I don't think people have a problem with them.

If we are unable to live by religions guildlines, then by what measure will we base our morals on? Ourselves? That seems just as silly as putting it on an "invisible man".

There is no "good" or "enlightened" morality. Those two words are completely subjective and totally dependant on the perspective.

They think you are evil and they are good, and guess what, you think the same of them.

The venom here sucks. So quit the bull#.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by KrazyJethro]

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Wait, we are not allowed to have rules based on Christianity?

Why? Many of them already are, and I don't think people have a problem with them.

Can you name ONE law that we have that non-Christian countries dont?

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Wait, we are not allowed to have rules based on Christianity?

We can try, but we can't expect non-believers to live according to laws of God. Christians are called to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. Examples, not babysitters or policemen. It is not our place to judge the world. That's Yahshua's job. (See Matthew 7:1-6, 1 Corinthians 5:9-13, & James 4:11-12). The Son of God also informed us that the world will hate us and reject us just as it hated and rejected Him. "The servant is not greater than his lord".

So, I don't expect too much help from governments and political parties. I trust the Republicans as little as I do the Democrats, and I place no faith whatsoever in George W. Bush. Good or bad, he's just a man. And everything I've seen and heard from him makes me believe Dubya is not the Christian he's portrayed to be. Even Clinton went to church on Sundays.

One last thing.

KJV Revelation 22:10-12
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


[edit on 22-10-2004 by Ischyros]

True, but can anyone see the love that is for children that cause Christians to be pro-life? Understand that if you really did think it was murder, you would fight to change it because you think it's wrong.

That is in contrast to the perspective of many pro-choice folks, which think it only to resubjegate the female, which is rediculous to anyone NOT a fanatic.

Violence and anger, demonization and damnation of the opposition on both sides is the POINT. On all topics.

That is the enemy of thought and rational action, especially in men. It is important for survival, but it also binds us.

Objectively, there is no universal truth or morality because no one is sure which theology is the truth yet. The world has been shaped by religion, all seeming to come from the same relative stance on moral structure.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I don't understand everyones problem here.

What does it matter what the reason for wanting to change policy. Seperation of Church and State does NOT mean that people can not act on their beliefs in lawmaking UNLESS they are not Christian, Muslim, jewish etc.

Makes no sense, stretching it out so that in your mind, if it follows Christian beliefs, we should do the opposite right?

Because they are the bigots right?

Look in the mirror.

No,but if these "christians" have been using tactics like the ones that have opened up that nice headache of a scandle for Tom DeLay to gain the control of the gov't.......well, then maybe there is something to complain about!!
---------------------------------

The analysis, based on Oct. 4 data from the Federal Election Commission and analyzed by the Center for Responsive Politics, shows that 241 current members of the House and Senate received $2,135,802 from Rep. DeLay�s political action committee, Americans for a Republican Majority, since it was formed in 1994. More than $1 million of the $2.1 million was donated in this election cycle.

The top recipients of Rep. DeLay�s contributions are Rep. Mike Ferguson, R-N.J., Rep. Shelley Moore Capito, R-W.Va., Rep. Robin Hayes, R-N.C., Rep. Heather Wilson, R-N.M., Rep. Mike Rodgers, R-Mich., Rep. Anne Northrup, R-Ky. and Rep. Jim Ryun, R-Kan., who all accepted more than $30,000 from the PAC.

Campaign for America�s Future Co-director Robert Borosage called on House Republicans to return the campaign contributions in question and urged all elected officials to take a stand before the election on the series of ethics charges leveled against Rep. DeLay.

�Tom DeLay is the kingpin of the most corrupt Congress in recent history,� said Borosage. �DeLay has a long record of working in the shadows. Taking money from DeLay compromises the integrity of every elected official who supports his dark tactics. Everyone who has taken Tom DeLay�s dirty money must publicly decide if they stand with DeLay or with decency.�


www.commondreams.org...
------------------------------------

"Playing at the edges of DeLay's smile was a knowing smirk. He got a kick out of shocking this icon of the media. But in power DeLay has demonstrated a fundamental disinterest in any real debate on any issue... "We have a strategy," he told Cronkite that day, "of using every tool available�every vehicle available to us�to make sure our positions prevail." Take the man at his word. He will do anything to win."

Quote from:

THE HAMMER
Tom DeLay: God, Money, and the Rise of the Republican Congress
LOU DUBOSE AND JAN REID

www.publicaffairsbooks.com...

Originally posted by marg6043
Thomas I used that as an example and by the way I am for women rights and it has never been otherwise for me.

I am for womens' rights, too, Beauty in Black. Your rights do not encompass murder, however. Do not allow a highjacked court system cloud your judgement of right and wrong, moral and immoral.

Originally posted by iceofspades
Setting aside my convictions against Bush, although he is wrongfully combining church and state under his reign, I don't believe he has any plans to take over America with religion. Despite his supreme asinity, he would be aware of the negative effects of what he would do.

For the Religious Right, however, I would not be surprised if they were planning to take over America. They are, after all, about 26 cards loose of a full deck.

How is Bush unconstitutionally "combining church and state"? Before you answer that, you'd better do some historical research or you will speak out of line with the origins of this nation. That is to say, do not allow the original "takeover" by the leftists and their revisionism confuse the facts on you.

"Religious right" is an interesting combination. I am Christian, not religious, and my understanding of "right" is more aligned with Nazism than it is conservatism. I might be assuming that the "religious right" label is encompassing me, a Christian with an in depth understanding of the nation's early history and the documentation associated with the building of this nation. At any rate, if you were to go back a few decades, you would find out that the country has not always been the way it is, that the left has undermined the nation's foundation and altered the path of this country. You would find out that particular phrases used by the left are actually perversions of the truth, and much of history has been revised. That being the fact and truth, it is not the "religious right" that is trying to take over the nation, it has been put, but the takeover has already occured. Now, understand, I blame nobody BUT the "religious right" and the others who sat back, did nothing and let it happen.

Evil is a slow, insidious process that does not happen over night. Such a thing would be recognised. It must happen over a length of time, so that the society doesn't notice the change. It has been allowed to happen, and now, many of those who are young believe that this is the way it was meant to be.

If you were told that you had a parasite in you, growing, and that it, unfortunately was going to kill you, but well, that parasite was an endagered species so they couldn't surgically remove it, how would you feel???

If a women, a mother of a couple young children was told that delievering the baby that she was carrying just might kill or incapacitate her, well, could you look those young children in the eye and tell them straight out, "Hey, we're sorry, but you're momma is gone now. Ya, well, we could have saved her, but it meant the death of you brother here, and his life was more important? Who's taking care of yours, because now they have one more to care for!"

I admit, I'm a little farther left than that, but, the current administration can't even bring itself to understand that yes they would want that endangered parasite removed from them, even if it was the last of it's kind!!! And, I'm sure that their kids would prefer their parent over it!!!
NO, a baby is not a parasite...persay, but, well, I don't think it would change your veiws if it were....
Unless you desire to take away all americans right to self protection and make if murder to kill the murderer entering your house with evil intentions, well, you really shouldn't take away the mother's right to protect herself (and other children) from any really bad effects of a dangerous pregnacy.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I am Christian, not religious, and my understanding of "right" is more aligned with Nazism than it is conservatism.

So are we to understand that in your opinion, Christianity should not be 'confused' with religion? And I'm curious, what is your opinion on the actual meaning of 'leftist'?

I might be assuming that the "religious right" label is encompassing me, a Christian with an in depth understanding of the nation's early history and the documentation associated with the building of this nation. At any rate, if you were to go back a few decades, you would find out that the country has not always been the way it is, that the left has undermined the nation's foundation and altered the path of this country...

It was better in the 'old days', huh Thomas? So why not go even further back than a few decades? When women weren't allowed to vote and slavery was as common as apple pie?

Evil is a slow, insidious process that does not happen over night. Such a thing would be recognised. It must happen over a length of time, so that the society doesn't notice the change. It has been allowed to happen, and now, many of those who are young believe that this is the way it was meant to be.

Yeah you're right, Thomas. The 'evil' trying to change these things does work slowly, doesn't it?


[edit on 23-10-2004 by Durden]

theres a documentary called The World According to Bush, made by some french guy though so i guess most Americasn wouldnt want to watch it with their "freedom fries" ! but it is a really cutting documentary, it covers for about 20 mins the whole religious side of bush and those in the whitehouse.

i also read an article online some weeks back, cannot find the link but if you search for dominonism politics or something you may find it, it lists the links btw right wing christians and politicians, basically what it says is in the 80's some very high profile televanglists where getting bored with only preaching and were setting their sights on more power..power of a political nature..they planned that by 2000 they would have the whitehouse (PLEASE NOTE! this is NOT some conspiracy thing like the illumianti in dark caves etc etc they have been semi open about it from day one) which is pretty much what happened..Bush is a right wing christian......influenced by false prophets.

the most HARROWING part of the documentary by the way is a clip of bush and his wive on what seemed to be like a "christian" talk show? maybe some Americasn know what i mean, it had a very popular rich evangelist praying on tv with bush...the HARROWING thing was that he prayed that bush would bring peace, not harm anyone etc...basically the OPPOSITE of whats been going down.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Violence and anger, demonization and damnation of the opposition on both sides is the POINT. On all topics..

Damn someone got the point I have been hammering away at over 3-4 threads

Everyone has to understand that ALL sides have a right to their opinion.

All sides even have the right to HATE each other as long as they do not attempt to silince or harm anyone.

This is America land of the free and home of the brave and even those you dont like have a right to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" so get over it.