A man a woman and an apple.

reply to post by UziLiberman

it wasn't a fruit, it was unsupervised sex

Now I'm totally confused, are you saying we are suppose to have supervised sex only? As in a 3rd party watching? I have three kids, its pretty straight forward and never needed any help, what gives here? Now on one hand you could say they aren't alone as they have each other. I just fail to see the need for the third person, oh sure it can make things funner but by no means is it necessary.

reproduction was only selectively allowed between the creatures in the garden. Enki taught humans the joys of spontaneous sex. which in turn made Enlil expel our kind from the garden of life.

There is something just a little to odd and hard to believe about this, do you have something to back up why your believing this? I would like to read it too. And what about all the plant life as well, were they forbidden from having sex as well? And why the cover up for the act of sex in this part of the bible when its more than clear later on, like how a man shall not lay with another man in the same way that he does with a woman. In a sense they are even teaching you at this point, at least that you lay to perform the act.

Plus I fail to see why anyone would want to control the act of sex, every animal does it, none of them need supervision unless its hamsters.

over time Enlil became known as the envious god from the old testament and Enki was turned into the snake in the story.

I'm assuming this was from directing them that eating from the tree would not bring death to them. And why is the term eat or eating in this section non functional like it is in the rest of the bible. The surley aren't talking about sex durring the rest of the times they mention eating?

creatures where naked, so catching the transgressors to enlil's law wasn't such a hard job. and that's why the concept of shame was developed and the beast started wearing clothes.

But the book doesn't say anything about the idea of shame being developed, it appears to happen in an instant after eating from the tree. There is nothing inbetween.

christianity stole from every other religious text merely editing the sex parts out and creating bogus concepts like virgin birth.

So are you saying that the reason why these sections don't appear to make sense is becasue of the editing? And whats so impossible about virgin births? We do them today it's called artificial insemination, and yes you can both be virgins.

nope sorry you religious zealots can pretend all you want but all of us here, we're here due to our progenitors having in fact engaged in a sexual act.

It is perhaps the most natural thing in the world, but its as though your either trying to say it's not suppose to be natural or that it was suppose to be controlled.

in case anyone didn't notice that's what separates the abrahamic faiths from other religions, sexual repression

I'm still lacking the connection between eating from the forbidden tree, and sex. And why would the term eating be used, unless it was in the context of oral sex, but I find that hard to believe as well.

reply to post by itsthetooth


i'm just saying that when you run a farm, you don't allow your animals to procreate randomly, you ensure the survival of the herd via selective breeding, animals only procreate when, how and with whom you the farm owner choose.

in this case we humans were the farm animals, created to be nothing more than burden bearing beasts.
the pleasures and joys of spontaneous sex were reserved for the gods only. and yes i meant plural.

until the "snake" intervened in our favor.

Eugenics are way older than mankind.

our history has been nothing more than the struggle to live freely or return to the old ways of captivity.
which we are badly loosing day by day.

reply to post by UziLiberman


I guess I don't understand.

How is anyone going to keep humans from having sex, we can't even control that today.

reply to post by itsthetooth


nope, but you can progressively lower fertility rates and affect males sperm count until a large percentage of the population is sterile.

look upon how we treat cattle and farm animals in general and you will find the foundations of our civilization.

it's going full circle

reply to post by UziLiberman


I guess it doesn't make any sense, if god had the ability to perform artificial insemination, but had no idea about birth control, I don't get it.

What ever it is just be happy to be alive.

I don't see the connection of the apple myself to the forbidden fruit. It is not written that it is an apple.

I guess Eve handled eating the apple better than Adam because he got the apple stuck in his throat.

If Adam was to get tempted by the Serpent, he would have probably just stepped on it's head. Eve listened to that snake oil salesman more than Adam did.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

The APPLE was most likely a POMEGRANATE as Apple Trees did not grow in the area that was between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers which was the area that was described as the Garden of Eden.

I understand that you are looking for the physical evidence of the Garden of Eden.

That might be very hard to be found.

reply to post by piequal3because14

I am quite sure that the Garden of Eden is a fictional place that is based upon the area between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now Iraq. Whoever wrote that story most likely used the Pomegranate as the Forbidden Fruit and NOT the APPLE.

I am not looking for Physical Evidence...as I know that the Garden of Eden was just a fictional place for a story that was created as a representation to teach morality to ancient Man.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for only one Man and one Woman to populate a Planet as two people do not have enough Genetic Diversity to create our current population. After two Generations the Grandchildren and Great Grandchildren would have children with Birth Defects as well as those children most likely being STERILE.

A Gene Pool of at least 2000 to 4000 people are needed for the Earth to have it's current population as well as it's Genetic Diversity. Split Infinity

It would be very helpful for people to have a context. For people who wish to weigh in on the topic to have read
past Genesis.

You would actually need to read Job to further enlighten what the basis for this confrontation/case is all about.
In the ongoing rebellion of Satan you learn that the issue raised is one of sovereignty.
Most people understand that a good deal of the Bible deals with The Law.

To demonstrate how loving and easy the government of GOD was he used a fruit. We do not know what kind,
because it was merely an object of demonstration. It could have been anything. GOD could have said all the Earth I give to you to go forth and multiply, extend this garden around the world and subdue the land.
(Therefore sex and procreation were not forbidden).
The only thing I ask is do not drink from this river. Or do not build on this spot of land.
Instead, HIS only law to demonstrate his sovereignty was to forbid the eating of fruit from a SINGLE tree.
It was a beautiful tree with desirable fruit. But, so were all the other thousands of trees.

By obeying GOD and not eating the fruit was THE ONE AND ONLY LAW.
He told them that to do so would result in their death. And gradually they did die.
Before then, the prospect of living forever with no sickness and death entering into the world was the promise.

Satan offered the woman the fruit because he knew that the man loved his wife and would obey her word over GOD's. So he mislead Eve with the thought that with choosing for herself to do so would result in HER being a sovereign as well. Like a goddess.

She in turn knew what was meant by the knowledge of good and bad as soon as she ate from it.
She was filled with remorse and fear and regret that she had never known before. This was new knowledge to her. With it meant that in choosing this one sign of her own "sovereignty" was that she woud henceforth have to
choose every move in her mind to decide what was the right and wrong thing to do! An extreme burden that she
did not want to take on nor was she wise enough to do so on her own.

She went to the man and told him what she had done and mislead him, compounding matters for herself, to make her first deceit of the man. She told him how wonderful it was and in order to please the woman and that she not have superiority over him, he ate it. Then he too, was filled with guilt, anger and remorse because it was just a stupid piece of fruit that was no better than any other. However, it carried with it the same burden as for the woman. He now would have to decide for himself every little thing of what is good and what is bad.

The first thing they did was hide. Because they became fearful in the knowledge that they would die.
They feared being killed. In hiding, they became ashamed of their nakedness, their second executive decision.
So they made clothes out of leaves to hide among the trees.

When asked by GOD what they were doing, they eventually fessed up but the man sought to shift blame for his own actions and instead blamed GOD and not the woman. He said, "Well you're the one who gave her to me"!
Already this new found knowledge of good and bad made them make one bad personal decision after another and possess a darker and darker heart of deception and dishonor. They were relieved to know they would not die right away.
That it was their very minds now corrupted that would lead to their bodies being corrupted likewise and would be the cause of their death along with a much harder life when forced to make it on their own outside the garden.

Because the link between the mind, heart and body was unknown to them before that for one to become imperfect, all became imperfect on the cellular level. Once their DNA became damaged, all their offspring would inherit these imperfections, and be compounded by their own imperfections, leading to sickness and death.

As an aside, I wonder if the word for genes was not deliberately chosen from the book Genesis.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

It is IMPOSSIBLE for only one Man and one Woman to populate a Planet as two people do not have enough Genetic Diversity to create our current population. After two Generations the Grandchildren and Great Grandchildren would have children with Birth Defects as well as those children most likely being STERILE.

Meh Split you might be right but you forget about the infinite divine grace.

We are limited as human beings and we think limited in our world.

"scientific facts are not historical reality"

reply to post by piequal3because14


What if man asked her to make him a sandwich I mean, for the apple? Then it's a request and not temptation.

Right?


ETA: What if she was holding out on all the apples and he just wanted one?

ETA: And another thing. Why doesn't she just make an apple pie?

ETA: One more thing, What if he wanted his rib back? Can he take an apple in trade?

reply to post by SLAYER69

What if man asked her to make him a sandwich I mean, for the apple? Then it's a request and not temptation.

Indeed it is a request.

What if she was holding out on all the apples and he just wanted one?

That also might be true.

Do not forget that she is the weak link still the strongest.

reply to post by piequal3because14

I do not believe in any Religion. I am however Spiritual. I am very certain that what some people think to be GOD as well as what they believe GOD actually is...is VASTLY LIMITED AND UNINFORMED.

If their is a GOD...it is most likely NOTHING Humans could either understand, relate to or put into a BOX OF UNDERSTANDING. Nor do I believe it is anything close to what people believe it is.

One thing is for certain. When a person dies...if a person has a Spirit and I believe we do...once a person does leave the constraints of the Body...that Spirit no longer has any concerns of the Body. This means that the idea that you die and exist just as you were when living except you reside in some Mansion in Heaven...is not consistent with the concept of a Spirit. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

One thing is for certain. When a person dies...if a person has a Spirit and I believe we do...once a person does leave the constraints of the Body...that Spirit no longer has any concerns of the Body. This means that the idea that you die and exist just as you were when living except you reside in some Mansion in Heaven...is not consistent with the concept of a Spirit

Death is not the end of the road.

You cannot say that you came from nowhere and you are going nowhere, is taking place a process of transformation that the spirit of the human beings is going through.

Also the spirit of animals is surviving after the body dies,with the difference that that spirit or a kind of spirit does not evolve.

reply to post by piequal3because14

I never said I thought Death was the end of the road. What I did say is that I believe that Organized Religion has it wrong. Religion is a form of Control with it's text written by Men.

A person is Sentient and thus has become more than the sum of ones parts. A Human Body is the culmination of several Billions of Years of Evolution. The Body is a Bio-Mechanical Machine. Our Brains have sufficiently Evolved to the point where we can ponder our existence.

As the Quantum Particle/Wave Forms that completely make up all the Protons and Neutrons in every Atomic Nucleus of Atoms in our Bodies...these Quantum Particle/Wave Forms are the same that comprise the Protons and Neutrons in the Atomic Nucleus of any Element or Compound that make up the Rocks, Earth, Sky and Seas of the Earth as well as make up the Sun and all Stars and Celestial Bodies in the Universe.

Since all these things as well as us are made of the same things...we are simply a product of the Universe.

There is a connection to all things on a Quantum Level. This may very well be what people call GOD.
Split Infinity

It is not surprising that most people will accept Satan's word that you do not die.

That's what this all comes down to, the same question posed to Adam and Eve.
They did not believe it either.

Do you believe GOD that you positively will die one day?
Or do you believe Satan that you will not die?

To believe Satan who's very name means the deceiver is unfathomable.
It is tantamount to believing yourself to be an immortal, in no need of Jesus's
sacrifice, to make it possible for a resurrection to life after one dies, at the appointed
time. Which is not yet. We know because I feel sure if the tombs were opened and
people were coming back to life again, that even the media would report that.

It is the central question of faith.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter

Well since I do not believe in Satan nor do I believe in the way GOD is detailed to be by Religion...I guess your question does not apply to me.

People most certainly Die. Now what exactly happens after Death is unknown for certain. Perhaps nothing...perhaps something. One thing I know for sure...it will be nothing like what any Religion has stated it will be.
Split Infinity

reply to post by itsthetooth


Yes we do die . Before the apple there was no physical death , now there is.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Your logic fails you. Since when does the mere fact you do not agree with or accept a law mean it does not apply to you? Whether legal laws or physical laws?

But, I understand that most people are unable or unwilling to accept their death.
They come up with all manner of "alternatives" for themselves.
Reincarnation.
An immortal soul.

We are mortal beings, therefore we do know what happens at death. We cease to be.
The life force leaves us and we are as unanimated and unthinking as a puppet or a doll.
The true measure of any person is how they accept the truth of their own mortality.
Only GOD can restore life again. He has demonstrated his ability to do so.
It takes acknowledging that that HE alone is the creator of life in the first place.