Big News From Mars? Rover Scientists Mum For Now

Mars is bone dry, never had water. Its has an atmosphere consistant with what it will support. It was never Earth like. It is very electrically active. Its great valleys were created by electric arc machining and its upper hemisphere was blasted away in the ancient past, probably by the Sun. Sending people there will be a grave mistake. When NASA says life then NASA gets paid.

reply to post by pacifier2012
No, Elvis didnt announce on this site that the Moon had an atmosphere.

reply to post by eManym


Please elaborate, this is a fascinating theory you have. I would like to hear the reasoning and if possible, evidence for your belief in such a theory.

Nothing to see here, move along!

reply to post by Saint Exupery


If there is nothing in space to transfer heat, how does an object cool down? At least with in our solar system. I mean if space is a near vacuum there aren't any particles for the heat to be transferred to. Perhaps the big secret is all of the planets beyond earth are habitable. ha ha

reply to post by eManym


Can I see your Degree ?

We are already aware water WAS on Mars in it's past, we are also aware of frozen water in some areas of the Martian soil now.

water on mars

reply to post by AaronWilson

Originally posted by eManym
Mars is bone dry, never had water. Its has an atmosphere consistant with what it will support. It was never Earth like. It is very electrically active. Its great valleys were created by electric arc machining and its upper hemisphere was blasted away in the ancient past, probably by the Sun. Sending people there will be a grave mistake. When NASA says life then NASA gets paid.

Want me to break it down for you? It's pretty vague, and it seems to borrow something we do know about mars, and blend some extremely bold science fiction-esque claims.

Mars is ,ay appear dry, but it's foolish to assume dry as not having water. This is like saying Antarctica is bone dry. It may not have liquid water, but there aren't too many places besides the middle of the ocean that have water in such abundance as Ice. en.wikipedia.org... Mars has water vapor in both it's atmosphere as well as locked in some of it's soil(permafrost). It has polar ice caps, as well as sub surface ice. It displays signs of lake beds, streams and rivers in it's past. As well some of the minerals present on the red planet can only form in the presence of water. Although in the current time, Liquid water has not been observed flowing on the martian soil it is there. Because of the Extreme environment of mars, it at this time is only know to exist as Ice, or Vapor.

Frost on mars



OHH YEAH !! The planet is red because of the high presence of Iron Oxide. Wait a minute I've heard that before, oh yeah Rust. en.wikipedia.org...

Rust is composed of iron oxides. In colloquial usage, the term is applied to red oxides, formed by the reaction of iron and oxygen in the presence of water or air moisture

Okay, we know there is water vapor in the martian Atmosphere, as well we know there is ICE( the solid state of H2O) So this alone gives huge evidence to support water being on mars, now or in it's distant past.


Now that we've established mars has WATER! Let's tackle the rest of the claims.

According to soil samples and sediment, Mars atmosphere today is much different than it was in the past. As well, much of the topographical features of mars were created in similar processes on Earth. Volcanism, Erosion from both water and wind, as well as from Meteorite impacts, like we see in abundance on the moon.

Look at that ice caps, and clouds... Hmmmmmm


Mars has lost it's atmosphere through a couple of processes. One of which being the cooling of it's core. As the planets core has cooled, it's magnetic field has become extremely diminished thus leaving itself vulnerable to harsh solar winds that have stripped much of it's former atmosphere away. The diminish in core activity, magnetic field and atmosphere has resulted in the mars today.

I'm assuming his statement about the upper HEMISPHERE of mars being blasted away was a typo, because Mars looks to be an intact Globe, not a mangled half of it's former self.

Now, Electric arc machining? This would suggest Machinery for one... Where is the machinery??? Why?? Where did such an ENORMOUS amount of electricity come fromm to literally CARVE the Martian landscape. Why do we not see more vitrified material on the surfaces of the valleys, craters, and mountains of mars then? There is by far more evidence to suggest Volcanism(in part to an active core much like ours. The Martian core is predominantly iron and at this time is semi solid suggesting it's still cooling. Ours is also Iron, but at this time is still as hot as the sun.) Erosion from the elements also play a huge part in the martian features we see today. The most common being Wind erosion, as Mars is well known for it's ENORMOUS wind storms.

There is Lightning on Mars, this is actually driven by the windstorms on the planet we are investigating today. Here is an article regarding that. ns.umich.edu...

For those who are actually interested, Lightning is responsible for turning the early mineral rich oceans of the earth into the first amino acids, which are the fundamental building blocks of all organic life on our planet. So really, you need a few things for the building blocks of life. Liquid water, Iron, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon and lightning can and do form the very baseline materials for life. They are doing it right now on Earth, just as they did when the first oceans appeared. Here's an easy to understand article outlining just that. www.tuberose.com...

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Saint Exupery

 

If there is nothing in space to transfer heat, how does an object cool down? At least with in our solar system. I mean if space is a near vacuum there aren't any particles for the heat to be transferred to. Perhaps the big secret is all of the planets beyond earth are habitable. ha ha

In a vacuum, there is no conduction or convection heat transfer.....However objects in a vacuum do loose heat through the radiation of electromagnetic energy ....This is how the Sun heats the Earth.

Or. "Bones!"

News: "Curiosity walk on a Boneyard!"

Still no news.

Sheesh, talk about building the tension.

Originally posted by seudonymous

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
The rover isn't rigged with the correct equipment to find life.

IRM

Ummm, determining if life could, has or does exist is one of Curiosities mission objectives. Along with working out the feasibility of a maned mission to Mars.

Curiosity cannot directly detect life. Do your research!

IRM

NASA building tension? *gasp*!

Be prepared to be let down everyone. If it was a real imporant scientific discovery -- we'd know by now. This whole rover thing has been hyped to death since it's inception. It felt almost more like a hollywood production with the videos and "mohawk guy".

Hey NASA Mohawk guy, do an AMA on ATS for us. Can you tell us why NASA is being a weak little bitch these days (and don't tell me it's Congress) in regard to it's "discoveries". I don't want to hear anything from you guys unless its paradigm changing.

par·a·digm
1: example, pattern; especially : an outstandingly clear or typical example or archetype
2: an example of a conjugation or declension showing a word in all its inflectional forms
3: a philosophical and theoretical framework of a scientific school or discipline within which theories, laws, and generalizations and the experiments performed in support of them are formulated; broadly : a philosophical or theoretical framework of any kind

Why does it feel like we're being neutered when it comes to space exploration? What the hell happened after the "space race" and the Moon landings? What the hell did we discover out there that sent us back to Earth with our tail between our legs?

The Moon has Helium 3 -- and asteroids that would literally pay a 500%+ return on any mining operation.

We have had the technology since the 60's (apparently?) to already be on the Moon, Mars, and the asteroid belt -- and private individuals today (Carlos Slim?) have more money than they know what to do with.

I used to build Space Shuttle models in the 80's as a kid with hope. Now, I just watch old episodes of "The Cosmos" with Carl Sagan and die a bit inside each time.

TLDR: NASA, stop being space-teasing bitches and give us the good stuff, otherwise shut up and leave it to the scientific journals.

I just want to make sure EVERYONE knows that Nasa is NOT a civilian science agency. They really and truly are part of the Department of Defense. Therefore, anything they discover can be classified and never released to the public. This is why I do not think we will ever get earth shattering news from Nasa. I think it is important that everyone remembers this little tidbit of information.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

NASA building tension? *gasp*!

No, a researcher at NASA got so excited by something that he thinks he may have discovered that he blurted out "I know something you don't know!" Childish, yes, but that's not NASA's fault.

Be prepared to be let down everyone. If it was a real imporant scientific discovery -- we'd know by now.

Either that or it would be kept super-secret forever? In fact, there is a carefully mapped data flow for each experiment so that the academics who designed the equipment get "dibs" on any discovery they make.

This whole rover thing has been hyped to death since it's inception. It felt almost more like a hollywood production with the videos and "mohawk guy".

I suppose you want them to go back to crew cuts and short sleeved white shirts with skinny ties.

Hey NASA Mohawk guy, do an AMA on ATS for us. Can you tell us why NASA is being a weak little bitch these days (and don't tell me it's Congress) in regard to it's "discoveries". I don't want to hear anything from you guys unless its paradigm changing.

It's not up to NASA to determine what your personal paradigm is, so stop acting like a whining brat.

Why does it feel like we're being neutered when it comes to space exploration? What the hell happened after the "space race" and the Moon landings? What the hell did we discover out there that sent us back to Earth with our tail between our legs?

The United States won the Cold War. Game over. Don't you realize how much the average American hates science? They don't want to pay good money to find out that Mars no longer as a magnetic field, or that the Moon might have subsurface ice at the poles. Your angry attitude suggests that you hate science as well. You don't want to know the truth, you want NASA to affirm your beliefs. Fact is, they didn't get warned off by aliens. Sorry.

The Moon has Helium 3 -- and asteroids that would literally pay a 500%+ return on any mining operation.

Helium 3 is useless unless you can get a deuterium-helium 3 fusor to exceed the break even point. That hasn't happened yet. As for asteroid mining, I'd like to see where that 500% return figure comes from. In any event, those potentially profit making enterprises are up to the private sector, not NASA.

We have had the technology since the 60's (apparently?) to already be on the Moon, Mars, and the asteroid belt -- and private individuals today (Carlos Slim?) have more money than they know what to do with.

And private individuals are already building their own spacecraft. Virgin Galactic. Dragon. Again, not NASA's department.

I used to build Space Shuttle models in the 80's as a kid with hope. Now, I just watch old episodes of "The Cosmos" with Carl Sagan and die a bit inside each time.

You are far too bitter about this. Why not get involved in a citizen science project? If you discover an exo-planet, maybe it will make you feel better.

TLDR: NASA, stop being space-teasing bitches and give us the good stuff, otherwise shut up and leave it to the scientific journals.

That's your problem right there. The good stuff is in the science journals. If you want epic space battles with lots of aliens, there's Star Wars. Stop being such a whiny brat.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

I just want to make sure EVERYONE knows that Nasa is NOT a civilian science agency. They really and truly are part of the Department of Defense. Therefore, anything they discover can be classified and never released to the public. This is why I do not think we will ever get earth shattering news from Nasa. I think it is important that everyone remembers this little tidbit of information.

Not that piece of flaming ignorance again:

My best guess would be that they found a sort of Limestone which, if it's really the case, would be a very good clue that life was there, a long time ago, on Mars.

Limestone is a sedimentary rock composed largely of the minerals calcite and aragonite, which are different crystal forms of calcium carbonate (CaCO3). Many limestones are composed from skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral or foraminifera.

Brassfield Limestone (Lower Silurian) near Fairborn, Ohio, USA. This unit is very rich in echinoderm debris.

Perhaps they found large amounts of Barium and Krypton (the residual from the splitting of U-235) or even more spectacular, americium-241, or plutonium-239.

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Saint Exupery

 

If there is nothing in space to transfer heat, how does an object cool down? At least with in our solar system. I mean if space is a near vacuum there aren't any particles for the heat to be transferred to. Perhaps the big secret is all of the planets beyond earth are habitable. ha ha

In answer to your question entropy plays its part regarding the heat dissipation. Essentially thermodynamics at play.

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Saint Exupery

 

If there is nothing in space to transfer heat, how does an object cool down? At least with in our solar system. I mean if space is a near vacuum there aren't any particles for the heat to be transferred to.

I know bhornbuckle75 & andy06shake already answered this, but look up the mechanisms for heat transfer, specifically radiation.

Perhaps the big secret is all of the planets beyond earth are habitable. ha ha

The recipe for life as we know it seems pretty simple:

- Chemicals - Preferably those that can combine in a lot of different ways. Carbon can form a near-infinite number of different bonds. The next-best is silicon, which can form 9 different bonds.

- A fluid medium - This allows the chemicals to mix-around, increasing the chance that they will form bonds. Liquid (such as water) works much better than gas (such as Jupiter's atmosphere) because the chemicals can be concentrated more easily, facilitating mixing & bonding.

- Heat - Heating increases molecular activity and facilitates the formation of chemical bonds. Thus, complex molecules will form more quickly in liquid water than in liquid methane. However too much heat can cause molecular bonds to break. Liquid water is more likely to allow complex molecules than molten lead.

- Time + Luck + ??? - How long does it take for random molecular interactions to produce a combination that self-replicates? Is it truly random? Is there a God-of-Microbiology helping things along? If so, does every planet have one? These are the Great Unknowns...

...and that's just for "life as we know it". Nothing I've written above rules anything out.
Is fire "alive"? Can computers be alive? What about other machines? Who fixes them when they break? Can they (should they?) be built with the ability to reproduce? We haven't even broached the subject of intelligence, yet.

(For a fun book about scientifically plausible life-as-we-sure-as-hell-don't-know-it, read Dr. Robert Forward's Dragon's Egg and its sequel, Starquake.)

I'm optimistic. I think that, given time, any environment meeting the above conditions will eventually give rise to self-reproducing organisms. We see organic life thrive in warm, watery places. Moons of Jupiter & Saturn have warm watery places below their frozen surfaces. Does life thrive there? I'll bet it does.

Mars? I don't know. Where is the warmth? Where is the liquid water? I wouldn't expect much of either near the surface. Also, without a magnetic field or a thick ozone-layer, life in the open on the surface would be terribly vulnerable to solar particle and ultraviolet radiation.

Curiousity's SAM experiment is a chemical analyzer. I expect that the Principal Investigator is geeking-out over some interesting chemistry his equipment has discovered. Scientifically, it is no doubt both interesting and important - possibly even Nobel Prize-worthy - but for the rest of us space fanboys & girls, it probably won't mean much. I could be wrong. We'll see.

Originally posted by Arken
Or. "Bones!"

News: "Curiosity walk on a Boneyard!"

CURIOSITY CAN WALK NOW!!! My GOD !

I thought your post seemed like it was meant to be a little humorous, so I had to pick it apart a little. Bones on the surface would surely be strange. I would expect them to have broken down anywhere curiosity could find them, what with sandstorms blistering cold of night and rapid heating during the day. The rapid changes in temperature would be likely to break down organic material as ice crystals expands in the material, then rapidly evaporates in the sun.

Could be possible I suppose, but I just think it would be odd for them to survive so close to the surface curiosities scoop could find them.