Turkish Prime Minister: 'Israel Is A Terrorist State'

Originally posted by Bilky
The irony is that they suffered terrible hardships during ww2 and now they are inflicting the same on another people with disproportionate attacks and killing of women and children. They have become the monster they most feared. They looked into the abyss and now they have become it.

Hamas is to blame for civilian deaths, they purposefully stay close to civilians for this purpose.

reply to post by shelookslikeone


I'm not blaming all of them but a great many are surely responsible. When a person is challenged on any subject and if they don't like the line of questioning they just say that the other person is anti zionist it really gets convienient, its pathetic really, i've seen them dodge every form of questioning by just saying "your anti zionist" It works great. Makes people shut up straight away.

Originally posted by Bilky
The irony is that they suffered terrible hardships during ww2 and now they are inflicting the same on another people with disproportionate attacks and killing of women and children. They have become the monster they most feared. They looked into the abyss and now they have become it.

MANY people suffered "terrible hardship" during WWII

Who talks about the 5-6 Million Polish who were killed ?

How about the 25 Million Russians?

Estimates of total casualty during WWII are upwards of 80 MILLION world wide.

.... I am not a "holocaust denier"

6 million dead is 13% of the total.

Where's the outrage for the other 87% ?!

The real "holocaust" was the entirety of dead during that time and not exclusive to "jews"

it's a SCAM

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by shelookslikeone

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by shelookslikeone

 

What peaceful solutions, I haven't seen any. I told you what will bring peace. Palestinians rejecting Hamas. Palestinians stopping attacks. Palestinians refusing to engage in violence. Then the ball is in Israel's court. What is your solution?

And no, Israel HAS the ability to wipe out all Palestinians. They have not done so, that completely refutes your argument Israel would do it.

Are you reading what I'm saying here? I've given you multiple reasons to both questions. I've told you about backlash and I've told you about aggression. You still do not want to talk about Israel starting this conflict. All you want to push is "poor Israel". Guess what? I think Israel is equally at fault. I do not believe in the whole "chosen people" garbage. There are no good guys in this.

Their reasons for not doing it are besides the point. I cite backlash as their reason for negotiating peace if Palestinians were serious about peace. You can guess at WHY Israel does not destroy Palestinians utterly, the fact is they can and they don't. Why is irrelevant.

If the role was reveresed Hamas would not care about backlash they would 100% utterly destroy Israel and kill them all.

I never mentioned chosen people. Israel did not start the conflict. So please tell me your peace plan I still don't see it. I told you mine.

The peace plan is that you can't meet aggression with more aggression. Israel should defend herself, but restrict offensive strikes (which started this conflict). If then peace cannot be reached, it would be easily provable and further actions can be taken with full support.

The assassination which took out what? An entire block with the guy? That's what started this conflict and it was an offensive strike. 112 dead up to this point by Israel. Mostly women and children. These are not the actions of a nation that seeks peace.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

So if a police officer is chasing an armed robber and the criminal gets behind an innocent bystander then the cop has every right to blow away both people? Strange logic but I'm sure you'l have something to say. Those with circular logic just keep goimg on and on and on and on.

reply to post by shelookslikeone


So the peace plan is Hamas and Palestinians can keep attacking and Israel should take it. Awesome. About all I need to read.

Originally posted by Bilky
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

So if a police officer is chasing an armed robber and the criminal gets behind an innocent bystander then the cop has every right to blow away both people? Strange logic but I'm sure you'l have something to say. Those with circular logic just keep goimg on and on and on and on.

What does cops and robbers have to do with war? You are right, there is a logic problem.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by shelookslikeone

 

So the peace plan is Hamas and Palestinians can keep attacking and Israel should take it. Awesome. About all I need to read.

Did I not say that Israel should defend themselves?

NO OFFENSIVE STRIKES!

reply to post by shelookslikeone


Which amounts to Hamas and Palestine can fire thousands of rockets and Israel gets to spend $40,000 per intercept missile to defend themselves and they get to just take it. Tell you what. Where do you live? We will do a test. I am going to come to your house and keep throwing rocks at your property. You can defend yourself. You can try to block as many rocks as possible, but you can't do anything offensive towards me. We will see how long you accept that.

Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by Bilky
The irony is that they suffered terrible hardships during ww2 and now they are inflicting the same on another people with disproportionate attacks and killing of women and children. They have become the monster they most feared. They looked into the abyss and now they have become it.

MANY people suffered "terrible hardship" during WWII

Who talks about the 5-6 Million Polish who were killed ?

How about the 25 Million Russians?

Estimates of total casualty during WWII are upwards of 80 MILLION world wide.

.... I am not a "holocaust denier"

6 million dead is 13% of the total.

Where's the outrage for the other 87% ?!

The real "holocaust" was the entirety of dead during that time and not exclusive to "jews"

it's a SCAM

edit on 20-11-2012 by HIWATT because: edit

you should read into my post and not go on other tangents. yes its true many suffered but my point is that the jewish people did suffer and should never have to endure those things again but it seems od that instead of becoming a compassionate and peacfull people they have become disconnected and disspasionate about the suffering of other people. One person is killed and they kill twenty, most women and children, some hamas fighters but the women and children are just deemed collateral and its not their fault even though they pulled the trigger. Lack of empathy is widespread in the name of security.

reply to post by Bilky


The difference being that the people support Hamas and the attacks on Israel. They elected Hamas. Hamas intentionally hides amoung them to increase casualties and the people go along with it. Israel tries to limit civilian casualties, Hamas tries to increase civilian deaths on both sides.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Bilky
The irony is that they suffered terrible hardships during ww2 and now they are inflicting the same on another people with disproportionate attacks and killing of women and children. They have become the monster they most feared. They looked into the abyss and now they have become it.

Hamas is to blame for civilian deaths, they purposefully stay close to civilians for this purpose.

What a load of BS!

You can NEVER be held responsible for the actions of others.... imagine your ideology used within police forces in the so-called "free world"... Cops going around shooting hostage takers, killing the hostages, because eventually one of the bullets will hit the hostage taker.

Your ideology is a fallacy... it's disgraceful and inhumane.

Israel have the choice to not attack... and last time I checked Israel is WAAAAY ahead in kill count.
Let alone, they have far bigger guns than the Hamas' fire crackers.

The picture the media is painting and that we are eating is that the big strong bully boy has beaten up the class geek and now trying to explain to headmaster that the geek ran into his fist with the help of the bullys two mates of similiar size...

How the hell can you live with yourself?

Once again I'll end my post with

WHY DO YOU ALL FEEL A NEED TO HELP AND PROTECT ISRAEL? WE OWE THEM NOTHING... THEY CAN OFFER US NOTHING! LET THEM FIGHT THEIR OWN WARS... LET US STAY OUT OF THIS.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Bilky

 

The difference being that the people support Hamas and the attacks on Israel. They elected Hamas. Hamas intentionally hides amoung them to increase casualties and the people go along with it. Israel tries to limit civilian casualties, Hamas tries to increase civilian deaths on both sides.

They don't seem to be trying very hard. A one to twenty odd ratio seems to indicate indiscriminate slaughter. Like I said about the police officer analogy is it permissible for a cop to kill bystanders to stop a bank robber? We don't permit that kind of behaviour in civilised countries so why should this situation be any different? The analogy is sound its just that the application of violence in the gaza strip seems to be an exception, its unbalanced violence in the name of peace. Crazy. BTW i can't see how that little baby who died being crushed by falling debris could be a hamas supporter, maybe she voted in secret. not funny, I am sarcastic because if I wasn't then I might start to go a bit crazy from the injustice in this world, its enough to send decent people around the twist.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by shelookslikeone

 

Which amounts to Hamas and Palestine can fire thousands of rockets and Israel gets to spend $40,000 per intercept missile to defend themselves and they get to just take it. Tell you what. Where do you live? We will do a test. I am going to come to your house and keep throwing rocks at your property. You can defend yourself. You can try to block as many rocks as possible, but you can't do anything offensive towards me. We will see how long you accept that.

I don't know where you're from, but here in the states, you come on my property and start damaging it and threaten my life, I have the God given right to send you to your maker.

You don't seem to understand what I mean by defensive action. If they fire at you, then you fire at them. But you don't open fire without them starting the conflict. That's the entire reason people are so pissed off right now. Israel started this. It was an offensive strike.

Originally posted by flice

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Bilky
The irony is that they suffered terrible hardships during ww2 and now they are inflicting the same on another people with disproportionate attacks and killing of women and children. They have become the monster they most feared. They looked into the abyss and now they have become it.

Hamas is to blame for civilian deaths, they purposefully stay close to civilians for this purpose.

What a load of BS!

You can NEVER be held responsible for the actions of others.... imagine your ideology used within police forces in the so-called "free world"... Cops going around shooting hostage takers, killing the hostages, because eventually one of the bullets will hit the hostage taker.

Your ideology is a fallacy... it's disgraceful and inhumane.

Israel have the choice to not attack... and last time I checked Israel is WAAAAY ahead in kill count.
Let alone, they have far bigger guns than the Hamas' fire crackers.

The picture the media is painting and that we are eating is that the big strong bully boy has beaten up the class geek and now trying to explain to headmaster that the geek ran into his fist with the help of the bullys two mates of similiar size...

How the hell can you live with yourself?

Once again I'll end my post with

WHY DO YOU ALL FEEL A NEED TO HELP AND PROTECT ISRAEL? WE OWE THEM NOTHING... THEY CAN OFFER US NOTHING! LET THEM FIGHT THEIR OWN WARS... LET US STAY OUT OF THIS.

Why do people keep comparing a conflict of war and cops and robbers? Stupid comparison.

Israel pulls the trigger and is right for doing so. They are targeting militant terrorists. Palestinians should demand peace, they don't, there are consequences to going to war. Hamas declared war. Hamas represents Gaza. Hamas intentionally tries to increase civilian deaths on BOTH sides. They intentionally try to kill Palestinian civilians.

Israel will choose to not attack when Hamas stops their aggression.

The rest of your post is childish.

Originally posted by Bilky

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Bilky

 

The difference being that the people support Hamas and the attacks on Israel. They elected Hamas. Hamas intentionally hides amoung them to increase casualties and the people go along with it. Israel tries to limit civilian casualties, Hamas tries to increase civilian deaths on both sides.

They don't seem to be trying very hard. A one to twenty odd ratio seems to indicate indiscriminate slaughter. Like I said about the police officer analogy is it permissible for a cop to kill bystanders to stop a bank robber? We don't permit that kind of behaviour in civilised countries so why should this situation be any different? The analogy is sound its just that the application of violence in the gaza strip seems to be an exception, its unbalanced violence in the name of peace. Crazy. BTW i can't see how that little baby who died being crushed by falling debris could be a hamas supporter, maybe she voted in secret. not funny, I am sarcastic because if I wasn't then I might start to go a bit crazy from the injustice in this world, its enough to send decent people around the twist.

edit on 20-11-2012 by Bilky because: (no reason given)

Israel has the power to kill almost everyone in Gaza in a few hours. If you can't see severe restraint then you must be blind. Israel ONLY targets terrorists. Others are killed, it is tragic, but the tragedy is that Palestinians can stop it and do not.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Bilky

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Bilky

 

The difference being that the people support Hamas and the attacks on Israel. They elected Hamas. Hamas intentionally hides amoung them to increase casualties and the people go along with it. Israel tries to limit civilian casualties, Hamas tries to increase civilian deaths on both sides.

They don't seem to be trying very hard. A one to twenty odd ratio seems to indicate indiscriminate slaughter. Like I said about the police officer analogy is it permissible for a cop to kill bystanders to stop a bank robber? We don't permit that kind of behaviour in civilised countries so why should this situation be any different? The analogy is sound its just that the application of violence in the gaza strip seems to be an exception, its unbalanced violence in the name of peace. Crazy. BTW i can't see how that little baby who died being crushed by falling debris could be a hamas supporter, maybe she voted in secret. not funny, I am sarcastic because if I wasn't then I might start to go a bit crazy from the injustice in this world, its enough to send decent people around the twist.

edit on 20-11-2012 by Bilky because: (no reason given)

Israel has the power to kill almost everyone in Gaza in a few hours. If you can't see severe restraint then you must be blind. Israel ONLY targets terrorists. Others are killed, it is tragic, but the tragedy is that Palestinians can stop it and do not.

Israel showing restraint? Israel is afraid of Russia. There is no restraint.

Originally posted by shelookslikeone

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by shelookslikeone

 

Which amounts to Hamas and Palestine can fire thousands of rockets and Israel gets to spend $40,000 per intercept missile to defend themselves and they get to just take it. Tell you what. Where do you live? We will do a test. I am going to come to your house and keep throwing rocks at your property. You can defend yourself. You can try to block as many rocks as possible, but you can't do anything offensive towards me. We will see how long you accept that.

I don't know where you're from, but here in the states, you come on my property and start damaging it and threaten my life, I have the God given right to send you to your maker.

You don't seem to understand what I mean by defensive action. If they fire at you, then you fire at them. But you don't open fire without them starting the conflict. That's the entire reason people are so pissed off right now. Israel started this. It was an offensive strike.

So you are trying to say Israel decided for no reason to attack? You can keep defending Hamas, but the Israeli strike was in response to the numerous rocket attacks from Gaza. How did you put it? They exercised their "God given right to send [them] to [their] maker."

So it is ok for you to kill me for throwing rocks at your house, but Israel can not target the terrorists launching rockets at their citizens? Convoluted logic.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Bilky

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Bilky

 

The difference being that the people support Hamas and the attacks on Israel. They elected Hamas. Hamas intentionally hides amoung them to increase casualties and the people go along with it. Israel tries to limit civilian casualties, Hamas tries to increase civilian deaths on both sides.

They don't seem to be trying very hard. A one to twenty odd ratio seems to indicate indiscriminate slaughter. Like I said about the police officer analogy is it permissible for a cop to kill bystanders to stop a bank robber? We don't permit that kind of behaviour in civilised countries so why should this situation be any different? The analogy is sound its just that the application of violence in the gaza strip seems to be an exception, its unbalanced violence in the name of peace. Crazy. BTW i can't see how that little baby who died being crushed by falling debris could be a hamas supporter, maybe she voted in secret. not funny, I am sarcastic because if I wasn't then I might start to go a bit crazy from the injustice in this world, its enough to send decent people around the twist.

edit on 20-11-2012 by Bilky because: (no reason given)

Israel has the power to kill almost everyone in Gaza in a few hours. If you can't see severe restraint then you must be blind. Israel ONLY targets terrorists. Others are killed, it is tragic, but the tragedy is that Palestinians can stop it and do not.

So because they have the power to kill everyone and don't then they are mercifull? I don't get your logic, I am talking about killing babies and women and you say they should be thankfull they arn't all wiped out? Yes they SHOULD thank israel for not killing all of them. Such mercy they show only killing a few babies and not blowing up a hospital.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by shelookslikeone

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by shelookslikeone

 

Which amounts to Hamas and Palestine can fire thousands of rockets and Israel gets to spend $40,000 per intercept missile to defend themselves and they get to just take it. Tell you what. Where do you live? We will do a test. I am going to come to your house and keep throwing rocks at your property. You can defend yourself. You can try to block as many rocks as possible, but you can't do anything offensive towards me. We will see how long you accept that.

I don't know where you're from, but here in the states, you come on my property and start damaging it and threaten my life, I have the God given right to send you to your maker.

You don't seem to understand what I mean by defensive action. If they fire at you, then you fire at them. But you don't open fire without them starting the conflict. That's the entire reason people are so pissed off right now. Israel started this. It was an offensive strike.

So you are trying to say Israel decided for no reason to attack? You can keep defending Hamas, but the Israeli strike was in response to the numerous rocket attacks from Gaza. How did you put it? They exercised their "God given right to send [them] to [their] maker."

So it is ok for you to kill me for throwing rocks at your house, but Israel can not target the terrorists launching rockets at their citizens? Convoluted logic.

I'd like links on the last strike (as well as the reasons) launched into Israel prior to the assassination that started this conflict.