The flood: The biblical god's mindset before and after.

First of all, I have been accused of attacking christians because I ask questions about their beliefs. That is not my intention. The reason I speak mostly about christian beliefs is because I was once christian and am more familiar with those beliefs. Now, can we discuss this without those accusations this time?

Genesis 6: 5-7 in the KJV says "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

After this, he sent the flood to destroy everything on earth, except for Noah and his family, and some animals.

Then, after the flood waters receded, Noah made a sacrifice to his god. Here is what happened according to Genesis 8: 20-21 in the KJV: "20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."

Does anybody notice anything strange? Am I not reading this right?

Before this god sends the flood to wipe out everyone, he says that he is doing this because the imaginations of man's heart was evil continually. But then after Noah makes a sacrifice, this god says he will not smite every living thing as he had done because the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth (which was the reason why he destroyed everything to begin with).

This god IS all knowing, isn't he? Did he not think about that to begin with? It doesn't make any sense.

reply to post by Hydroman

i believe, god has extraordinary and unbelievable skills, but is also limited.

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by Hydroman

 

i believe, god has extraordinary and unbelievable skills, but is also limited.

Limited in that he can't realize that he killed them for the same reason he was never going to kill them like that again? I don't know what you mean.

And as a side note, I hear Napoleon Dynamite's voice when I read what you quoted.

reply to post by Hydroman

This god IS all knowing, isn't he? Did he not think about that to begin with? It doesn't make any sense.

Same reason he put souls in people he created on Earth...he was lonely. Why not just keep all the souls in heaven and teach them everything you want? Seems like a long way to get what you want...plus a lot more strife! There are just some questions some Christians can't answer...then it boils down to faith.

reply to post by Hydroman


OT God isn't "all knowing"...

He is quite flawed... and so are his books

Originally posted by superman2012
Same reason he put souls in people he created on Earth...he was lonely. Why not just keep all the souls in heaven and teach them everything you want? Seems like a long way to get what you want...plus a lot more strife! There are just some questions some Christians can't answer...then it boils down to faith.

That's how I feel about miscarried babies. Why would he put souls in them if he knows they're never going to be born? Same with aborted babies....

reply to post by Hydroman

I don't know what you mean.

humans cannot understand god fully. as a saying goes, god moves in mysterious ways.

you hear napoleon dynamite ? does this happen with other posters, too ?

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by Hydroman

 

I don't know what you mean.

humans cannot understand god fully. as a saying goes, god moves in mysterious ways.

you hear napoleon dynamite ? does this happen with other posters, too ?

When they talk about their skills, yes.

If you cannot understand god fully, what makes you think you understand him at all? What makes you think the authors of the bible understood?

Is that what you meant by he is limited? He is limited because we can't understand him? How does that answer my original question? It seems pretty clear to me what he said....he won't do it again because of the same reason that made him do it to begin with...

reply to post by Hydroman

i guess it's the offerings by noah. first god is angry, then god smells the burning offerings and then god is better tempered.

Originally posted by icepack
i guess it's the offerings by noah. first god is angry, then god smells the burning offerings and then god is better tempered.

LMAO! That's hilarious! The secret to calming down a violent god: burn some animal meat. That is really interesting though. He created these animals, and he enjoys the way they smell as they burn. Also, it seems he has some form of a nostril, which leads to many other questions: Before he created anything, what did he have a nostril for? What was he going to smell?

Originally posted by Hydroman


This god IS all knowing, isn't he? Did he not think about that to begin with? It doesn't make any sense.

That's because God was written by Man, and only acts as man would.

It's called personification in literature.


Khar

reply to post by Hydroman


Seems like the passages are saying:
God was mad at himself for having made mankind, because they had become so fallible.
His anger was subsided by the offerings, because it brought out the realization that mankind had not become fallible - they were born that way.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
Seems like the passages are saying:
God was mad at himself for having made mankind, because they had become so fallible.
His anger was subsided by the offerings, because it brought out the realization that mankind had not become fallible - they were born that way.

Yes, it does seem like it says that. Now, if this god is all-knowing, like his followers believe, why didn't he come to that conclusion at the BEGINNING and avoid killing everyone and everything?

Originally posted by Hydroman
First of all, I have been accused of attacking christians because I ask questions about their beliefs. That is not my intention. The reason I speak mostly about christian beliefs is because I was once christian and am more familiar with those beliefs. Now, can we discuss this without those accusations this time?

Genesis 6: 5-7 in the KJV says "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

After this, he sent the flood to destroy everything on earth, except for Noah and his family, and some animals.

Then, after the flood waters receded, Noah made a sacrifice to his god. Here is what happened according to Genesis 8: 20-21 in the KJV: "20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."

Does anybody notice anything strange? Am I not reading this right?

Before this god sends the flood to wipe out everyone, he says that he is doing this because the imaginations of man's heart was evil continually. But then after Noah makes a sacrifice, this god says he will not smite every living thing as he had done because the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth (which was the reason why he destroyed everything to begin with).

This god IS all knowing, isn't he? Did he not think about that to begin with? It doesn't make any sense.

Hydro, I think that the answer may be better explained if you read from the start of the narrative (from Genesis 6:1, after the genealogy statement which usually breaks up the logical sections of Genesis). This section starts with talking about the "sons of God" (Angels) procreating with the "daughters of men" and causing the "earth born" who were also the "ancient men of renown".

The passages you quoted mentioned that all men had become corrupted from birth and that Noah was "pure in all his days". Perhaps what is being spoken of, here, is genetic, or epigenetic corruption.

In one generation we have gone from horse & cart to the internet, space travel and genetic manipulation. There were nine generations from Adam to Noah and each generation lived far longer than we live now. Who knows how scientifically advanced they may have been in Noah's time.

When we genetically engineer organisms today, we normally use inactivated virii to insert gene sequences into the target genome. If they did the same thing back then but for some reason the virus reactivated or for some other reason began to spread uncontrollably, it would begin rewriting the DNA of ALL life it infected, from bacteria to humans.

Genetics itself is not always the end of the story because we can carry genes that are not activated. The new science of epigenetics looks at the factors that turn genes off and on. These factors may be environmental or behavioral (for instance, exercise can make actual genetic changes that will prevent type 2 diabetes by activating a gene that most people carry).

Imagine the effect of a gene that when switched on via some particular behavior, makes you a bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, sociopath and that this condition is then heritable and will be passed to your offspring.

Faced with a genetic plague on that scale, the only sane solution (as humans) is some sort of genocide, which God took against all but selected 'unsullied' organisms.

I agree it would be excessive to "end all life" just to punish a few wayward sinners. Think a bit deeper about what the whole narrative is saying.

If God created all life including Adam and Eve, why in old paintings do they have belly buttons? Did god have an umbilical cord?

reply to post by Hydroman


Hmmm...

My guesses are:

Maybe all knowing doesn't mean all knowing in the common sense of the phrase. Maybe it is to mean most wise and most able to understand all that is.

Maybe he is only all knowing when he doesn't dwell in our realm. Maybe once he comes into our realm he is unable to use the ablity to be instantaneously all seeing and all knowing. Maybe that is why he stays out of our realm and uses angels and the holy spirit instead.

I don't have a good answer either, sorry.

Originally posted by chr0naut
I agree it would be excessive to "end all life" just to punish a few wayward sinners. Think a bit deeper about what the whole narrative is saying.

Are you saying that the reason it gives for the destruction of the earth-the wickedness of man and the imaginations of his heart being evil-is not the real reason for the flood?

Are you going with the book of Enoch on this one, where angels mated with humans and had offspring? I've done a thread on that before. Did angels have reproductive organs? If so, could they mate with each other and produce offspring? If not, why did they have reproductive organs? And, how were they compatible with humans? Was god not thinking ahead on that?

reply to post by Hydroman


I think angels are supposedly shape-shifters...
they can have whatever organs or appearence they choose.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
I think angels are supposedly shape-shifters...
they can have whatever organs or appearence they choose.

..and in doing so they can produce sperm that is compatible with the human female egg to produce offspring?

Also, why don't they have sex with each other instead, and produce their own angelic offspring?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by chr0naut
I agree it would be excessive to "end all life" just to punish a few wayward sinners. Think a bit deeper about what the whole narrative is saying.

Are you saying that the reason it gives for the destruction of the earth-the wickedness of man and the imaginations of his heart being evil-is not the real reason for the flood?

I am suggesting that these may just be the symptoms of a deeper problem.

There is much in Genesis, a book supposedly written in the late bronze age, which carries inferences and concepts that can only be made sense of in the 21st century.

Even the very last stuff written (the book of Revelation) talks of a hive-mind for humanity, living in a single self sustaining human palace that even creates its own water (arkology) in a perfected & post apocalyptic world.

And you are thinking like a late bronze age person. Would Angels require a physical sexual union to achieve their desires? These guys watched God create the universe. Perhaps they wanted to be able to experience it by inhabiting it something like in the story Avatar, or perhaps more like the Greek Titans. Either way, I don't think their aims were as trivial as having a one night stand.