Is the Harappan civilisation 2000 years older?

The recent International Conference on Harappan Archaeology produced an unexpected announcement from archaeologists BR Mani and KN Dik#, both of the Archaeological Survey of India, who claim that new dates from excavations show the Harappan culture began around 2000 years earlier than previously thought.

Link to the report

If they are confirmed these findings from the Indus valley would have the Harappan Culture rising at about the same time as civilisation in Mesopotamia.



Unfortunately not a lot of details but read the link

reply to post by Hanslune


Great find Hans...

You know me. I'm always on the look out for things that keep pushing back the dates. A few hundred years here and a few hundred years there, but this?

2,000?

Awesome find.

Let's see if they can find a complete developmental period or as some of us believe the earliest periods were located offshore which are now submerged...

If you believe the Indian mythology, it goes back even further.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Great find Hans...

You know me. I'm always on the look out for things that keep pushing back the dates. A few hundred years here and a few hundred years there, but this?

2,000?

Awesome find.

Let's see if they can find a complete developmental period or as some of us believe the earliest periods were located offshore which are now submerged...

I thought you might like that; see you think they'll find civilizations off shore but I think they'll find cultures inland and under existing habitations, same tune different words. We will have to see if the report stands up. There were too few details to make any judgement. Unfortunately the one Indian Archaeologist I knew went sanyasi a few years back

reply to post by Hanslune


Why can't it possibly be both?
I found this to be an interesting read. I think the farther back they go the more they'll realise there is a history before the history we think we know. My two pennies anyway.

9,500-Year-Old City Found Underwater Off India

Discovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force
Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History

4500-year-old Harappan The civilization of Ancient Egypt occurred in a past so remote that today it seems mystical. The pyramids and other temples, with their hieroglyphics depicting a flourishing civilization, have a mysterious, almost magical appeal. It seems inconceivable that people of an advanced society could have walked those ancient streets.

Now, it was announced in January, a civilization has been uncovered that would have appeared just as ancient to the people who built the pyramids as the pyramids seem to us.

According to marine scientists in India, archaeological remains of this lost city have been discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India. And carbon dating says that they are 9,500 years old.

Double post...

Sorry about that.

I'm also nursing a head and chest cold

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Why can't it possibly be both?
I found this to be an interesting read. I think the farther back they go the more they'll realise there is a history before the history we think we know. My two pennies anyway.

Discovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force

Of course we could both we right, you could be right and I wrong or vice versa or horror of horrors we could both be wrong (that would be very dull)

The Cambay site remains controversal and unfortunately unproven at this time. The lack of progress on this site over the last 8 or so years does not bode well for its being found to be 'real'

Incredible. I did an extensive report on Harappa (specifically, Mohenjo-Daro) in college. I had always suspected there was more to Harappan civilization and the IVC than meets the eye. I have heard of artifactual evidence that has placed them right on course with development in Mesopotamia. But...2,000 years earlier? That would be delicious! I can't wait to hear more.

Edit: My first avatar for ATS was indeed the Pashupati seal excavated at Mohenjo-Daro.

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
Incredible. I did an extensive report on Harappa (specifically, Mohenjo-Daro) in college. I had always suspected there was more to Harappan civilization and the IVC than meets the eye. I have heard of artifactual evidence that has placed them right on course with development in Mesopotamia. But...2,000 years earlier? That would be delicious! I can't wait to hear more.

Edit: My first avatar for ATS was indeed the Pashupati seal excavated at Mohenjo-Daro.

We'll see if the dates stand. Pakistani archaeologists haven't been that productive of late. A lot of the Harappan sites have problems with ground water, and pumps and other technology to do wet digs is lacking due to funding constraints.....but we have hope

reply to post by Hanslune


Yes, last I heard there were only conservation projects going on at Harappa. It is one of my favorite archaeological sites, so it is always exciting to hear news about the IVC.

Thanks for posting!

I wonder if the pattern in the brickwork on the wall means anything or is it just decorative?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Why can't it possibly be both?
I found this to be an interesting read. I think the farther back they go the more they'll realise there is a history before the history we think we know. My two pennies anyway.

9,500-Year-Old City Found Underwater Off IndiaDiscovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force
Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History

I don't think you should rely on that 2002 news story. Within that week, it was determined that the artifacts were recovered by dredging (not proper methods) and since then the evidence is not compelling ("microartifacts" can be just about anything.) en.wikipedia.org...

Hi Hans
Cool stuff , as usual .
2000 years is a bit of a jump, I would expect the indus civilizations to completely contemporary to the mesopotamian societies. since they would have been influenced by the same changes in environment.
One thing that puzzles me about the indus civilization is the complete lack of knowledge of horses, they have all the other things we see in cultures around them barley, wheat, cattle and the wheel. But there are no images of horses or any horse related items, even though they had a long standing trade relationships with the Arabian pennisula, where horses were domesticated by 9000bce.

reply to post by Byrd


I'm not relying on it

Just opening the topic up to more speculation.
There does seem to be mounting circumstantial evidence for this scenario

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Why can't it possibly be both?
I found this to be an interesting read. I think the farther back they go the more they'll realise there is a history before the history we think we know. My two pennies anyway.

9,500-Year-Old City Found Underwater Off IndiaDiscovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force
Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History

I don't think you should rely on that 2002 news story. Within that week, it was determined that the artifacts were recovered by dredging (not proper methods) and since then the evidence is not compelling ("microartifacts" can be just about anything.) en.wikipedia.org...

While I do agree that the story might be unreliable, I wonder how the hell they determined within a week that the evidence was not compelling? I also feel upto certain extent that many of the south east asian archeological studies/discoveries never catches up/promoted in the West. Very few ever catches attention of the masses. At the same time, what remains is the knowledge passed down through the Vedic Chants through Generations is the only fragmented evidence to the present generation. Most of the documented history/artifacts were pretty much demolished/destroyed by many dynasties which plundered/exploited the SE region for the past 1k-2k years.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I'm also nursing a head and chest cold

edit on 15-11-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

With single malt or blend?

reply to post by punkinworks10


Hey do you have link for that date of horse domestication? I thought it was around 4,000 BCE?

Thanks

reply to post by hp1229


Here is a long discussion of the matter at hand - dealing with the finds at Cambay

Link to Cambay

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by hp1229

 

Here is a long discussion of the matter at hand - dealing with the finds at Cambay

Link to Cambay

Thanks. Good article with some very good points. However I'm still skeptical. Its almost always the civilization never existed outside of Africa almost all the time and human kind emerged from Africa.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by hp1229

 

Here is a long discussion of the matter at hand - dealing with the finds at Cambay

Link to Cambay

Thanks. Good article with some very good points. However I'm still skeptical. Its almost always the civilization never existed outside of Africa almost all the time and human kind emerged from Africa.

Yep that is where and to what the evidence we have presently points.