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Originally posted by Freezer
They don't deny they have these weapons.
I lol'd when Bearden didn't even open the door...Smart...
Originally posted by Rubicant13
Both towers were built to withstand being hit by airplanes upon their completion. Any one saying that the planes weakened the structural supports enough to drop them is only speculating - no solid evidence of that whatsoever.
I have to refute one other thing in the last post. Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. This has been proven. It would not matter if the fire from the jet fuel had been burning for 2 days, it would not have the necessary heat to melt or drastically in any form, buckle the steel used in the World Trade Centers. It most certainly could not have achieved a high enough temperature to melt or weaken the steel in the time it took the towers to fall either.edit on 16-11-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Rubicant13
Wrong. Structural steel melts at 2750 degrees F.
Originally posted by Rubicant13
Wrong. Structural steel melts at 2750 degrees F. The fires burning caused by the jet fuel burned at the highest temperature of 825 degrees C, or 1517 degrees F. That is 1200 degrees below melt temperature for structural steel. These are known facts.edit on 16-11-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Rubicant13
I work in metal fabrication, as I have for 11 years. I have worked in a foundry as well as a machine shop within the same company. I know a lot more about steel than the average layman.
Originally posted by Rubicant13
I work in metal fabrication, as I have for 11 years. I have worked in a foundry as well as a machine shop within the same company. I know a lot more about steel than the average layman. Structural steel will not "bend" or "warp" at 1200 degrees below its own melt point. It does not do this until you hit the neighborhood of around 2300 degrees F. And the jet fuel burning in the short amount of time that it did before the towers fell, could not not have in any way, reached near that temperature. It's impossible.
Originally posted by Bedlam
Originally posted by Rubicant13
I work in metal fabrication, as I have for 11 years. I have worked in a foundry as well as a machine shop within the same company. I know a lot more about steel than the average layman.
As an engineer, and an occasional blacksmith, I can tell you that if I heat up metal, it'll bend a lot more easily than if it's cold.
You know that is true, if you've done foundry work. But even if not, just look at strength/temp curves for i-beams.
Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
Originally posted by Rubicant13
I work in metal fabrication, as I have for 11 years. I have worked in a foundry as well as a machine shop within the same company. I know a lot more about steel than the average layman. Structural steel will not "bend" or "warp" at 1200 degrees below its own melt point. It does not do this until you hit the neighborhood of around 2300 degrees F. And the jet fuel burning in the short amount of time that it did before the towers fell, could not not have in any way, reached near that temperature. It's impossible.
I have worked in the trades supervising large construction for 25 years and studied engineering in school, your appeal to authority doesn't carry any weight here.
I have bent lots of steel with a torch as well.
As much as I despise using Youtube video's as proof of anything, Nat Geo is a reasonable source.
Originally posted by Rubicant13
Strength temp curves in structural steel are calculated at a rate of heat over a certain time. I know that it takes a lot longer a time for the structural integrity to have been weakened enough to have bent or warped in the time it took for the towers to fall after being hit by the planes. And the temps to create these integrity failures would have to have been higher and burned over a far longer period.
Originally posted by Bedlam
Originally posted by Rubicant13
Strength temp curves in structural steel are calculated at a rate of heat over a certain time. I know that it takes a lot longer a time for the structural integrity to have been weakened enough to have bent or warped in the time it took for the towers to fall after being hit by the planes. And the temps to create these integrity failures would have to have been higher and burned over a far longer period.
True to a point - but how much damage to the structure was done by the impact? It's not just heat, not just impact.
Originally posted by Rubicant13
These two factors were taken into account when they were built.
Originally posted by Bedlam
Originally posted by Rubicant13
These two factors were taken into account when they were built.
Separately. But not together, and IIRC, the building didn't have the insulation on the beams that was supposed to be there, or they changed the type to something less effective. The point of the insulation is to protect against weakening by fire. If it doesn't happen, why do they do insulate them?
Originally posted by dizTheWiz
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
yo explain why tower 7collapsed for me. And did the fires from the plane's crashing reach the bottom of the twin buildings? i always saw the buildings collapse completely to the bottom columns
Neither of you have addressed the issue of where the building debris go....there was not enough rubble and the parking garage below...still intact......no building made of steel has ever collapsed from fire period.....much less 2 at the very same time....and then lets not forget...that other building.....there is no way this happened without outside assistance....death ray or not
Originally posted by Rubicant13
No, they show a lot of evidence in this episode and not all eyewitness testimony. As far as Alex Jones is concerned, he was in the first episode of the season, but not in this episode at all. For some reason, Jesse likes Alex and I have no idea why. I am not a big fan of Alex Jones myself.edit on 15-11-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)
But not super reinforced structural steel with iron as a component. That would be an incredible feat to observe. It could not be done by any standard torch.