Brain-damaged man 'aware' of scientists' questions

reply to post by Bedlam


A lil off topic but....this kind of reminds me of watching Serpent and the Rainbow which was filmed in Haiti. Crazy Voo Doo workings with the right medicine. Make someone appear as they are dead (or non-responsive) but they are alive and well. Creepiest movie and especially good for that time.

Originally posted by Charmeine
reply to post by Bedlam

 

A lil off topic but....this kind of reminds me of watching Serpent and the Rainbow which was filmed in Haiti. Crazy Voo Doo workings with the right medicine. Make someone appear as they are dead (or non-responsive) but they are alive and well. Creepiest movie and especially good for that time.

We used to joke about giving people rocuronium and bagging them as part of a field expedient interrogation. You know, sitting there by them while they're totally paralyzed, and squeezing the bag while you tell them jokes and have a conversation with them.

"You know, this part...it's the introductory bit. You get to feel what it's like. Here...I'll stop for a few seconds. See if you can breathe. (pause) Wow, that sucks, dunnit? Lying there, you can see and hear me, but you can't move for s--t, can you? Not to take one breath. Now, me, they won't let me in here during the interrogation. I'm too soft hearted. I'll shoot you, but I won't stop squeezing the bag. In a few minutes, this'll wear off and you'll be right as rain. But then, then my buddies will come in and I'll wait outside. If you don't tell them what they want to know, they'll dose you again. And they aren't as nice as I am. You might want to consider your options. Lying there wide awake, not able to breathe, not able to move, nothing, that's a hard way to go."

But then the Israelis started doing it. For real. Mossad, they're hard core. Whodathunkit?

Serpent and the Rainbow was sorta talking about the Borrachero tree. It's real, but less predictable than roc.

In the report it states that he was able to communicate that he was in no pain. I wonder if that is just referring to physical pain or includes emotional pain as well? If they asked the patient if they wanted to have life support discontinued would the doctors be allowed to honor that request. Without an advanced directive how would the court rule? Is the patient cognitively able to communicate his wishes? It certainly brings up a lot of questions. BTW if you haven't filled out an advanced directive for health care I recommend you look into it. Your doctor or hospital will have them available. If you don't communicate your wishes before hand then you place your loved ones in the terrible position of making that decision. That is unfair to them!

How do you say ''for the love of god, kill me please!'' through a brain scanner...

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Thats impressive and promising for many reasons!

Not the least of which is to bridge the gap left with doctor and patient in such situations where technology has not caught up...but also the potentials of the human mind to transcend the decimation of its assumed container*

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞

This was the subject of the book/movie The Diving Bell and the Butterfly...
...www.imdb.com...

A relative gave it to me following my closed head injury in 1996.

reply to post by Hefficide

Ron, it's too late for this, but I'll say it anyway. I'm so sorry man. I wasn't trying to torture you. I really did think that you might wake up if you knew you had a son.

His son was conceived just hours before? Weird coincidence.

I can see that you meant no harm when you talked to him in the hospital. You might have been the only person to do that. He probably knows that and would thank you if he could.

reply to post by intrptr


I agree. He was probably thankful to know that he had a child, and was able to be at peace after that, knowing that he wasn't leaving his wife alone.

Although this is an amazing discovery. How is it helping the patients? I understand in the sense it could give them the option to "let go." Rather than putting it on family members or the court. How ever a simple yes or no is extremely limiting. The patient can pretty much answer questions, which is remarkable and I imagine in some ways relieving to the patient knowing those around them can at least get that answer out of them. How ever a few months, or several years in this state even with a yes or no answer is beyond unimaginable. I suppose you could explain the situation to the patient and try to figure out what they need, if they are in pain, but if there is no hope of them coming out of the damage to experience life once more.. I don't even know what I'm trying to say. It's an amazing break through in one regard, but in another I don't know. I'm just baffled and hope no one has to suffer this type of injury, and my heart is truly with those that have.

This part really blows my mind -

Prof Owen has previously shown that nearly one in five vegetative patients may in fact be conscious.

Even if that figure is way off, the fact thousands of people could be locked in their bodies unable to communicate or move in anyway is terrifying.

As other posters have stated, its one of the most frightening prospects of fate one could imagine.

Although it intrigues me hes not in pain, and whether our consciousness has an ability to detach from our physical form or not, (I believe it does) we would hope that our brain has a type of defense mechanism to limit our stress and suffering in a situation such as this,

Not unlike the release of adrenaline into the blood during accidents and dangerous situations, which has the benefit of relieving pain to the point of feeling nothing at all.

I would also like to find out more information on his awareness and what its like from his perspective.

I wish this was true, but been educated in how the brain works and how victims of brain injuries comes in various degrees, I have to say that I am skeptical.

Sadly the man is in coma, supposedly brain death for a decade, to me it sounds like if he can not move, talk and been in that stage for so long, the people around "scientist" can only assume that he is responding, kind of cruel for the family if this is just the works of machines and humans and not the brain of the injured man.

Sad.

I wonder if this would have changed any minds in the Terry Shiavo case?

Interesting thing to ponder.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan

Weird situation to make a call on. We tend to believe that if a person has their eyes close but is breathing they must be alive. After all they look like they are asleep. So how can we terminate them? They might wake up at any moment. But the moment goes on forever and ever, with nothing but slow deterioration of their motor functions. Reminds me of the Voodoo zombies where people were "apparently" dead from ingesting puffer fish but they could see and hear everything around them.

Silent scream.

You guys are kind of missing a big point of this article. Nearly 1 in 5 people thought to be in a vegetative state may not be. The family is allowed to pull the plug in this case, and is often pressured to by doctors. "He's not going to come back from this...but if you sign this form, his organs can save so many people...."

trojanbadger.com...

Could drop this on it's head if these people could make their own decisions.

reply to post by Dannkk


That is a big point, but it really pales in comparison to the notion of Locked-In Syndrome. Nobody should be subjected to such torturous conditions.

I know that I heard somewhere, from somebody who recovered from a 10-year-long coma, that he did possess awareness but it was a peaceful, timeless experience. I got the impression that it wasn't the sustained, freak-out panic attack that most here, including myself, are horrified by. I really hope that is true. I can't remember the source, sorry.

reply to post by marg6043


Why would the machine randomly show brain function on an fMRI? There is random neurological noise that is one thing they have to watch for, but if they ask the question repeatedly, and the same parts of the brain light up, then that's not random, that's deliberate.

I think there needs to be more music, ambience, interaction, and maybe even some "stretcher walks" outside (for sunshine) for people in comas (even the ones hooked up to sh**).

Terry Schiavo was one of the most horrific media stories I've ever lived through btw.
Even worse than Caylee Anthony imo


The worst sin of humanity (from personal experience) is treating conscious, sentient life, as if it were a waste because it's less "normal", "functional" useful, or perfect than "the rest" [of us trash]!!

God will be the judge where these poor lambs are concerned...

I can't judge the caregivers because I am guilty of failing in the care of a disabled person (was too severe!).

Our society needs help. Personal robots as nurses and stuff like that is not totally out of the realm of realistic!!!!
I think "medical drones" and the like would save LIVES and life is the most precious element.

I had a friend whom was a professional Hypnotis and communicated with a girl in a comotose state. She was severly injured and had been unresponsive for quite some time and only kept alive by artificial means. He quit his practice after what ever happened and became very religious. He would not speak of the details but was clearly a changed man and only said to let things be as they are and would never try to do hypnosis on anyone again.

WOW reminds me of a Movie Called Johhny Got his Gun

About a WW1 American ? Soldier that was blowing Apart No Arms Legs Face Mouth Eyes Ears (Hearing)

Just Feeling and that it


Found a way to Comunicate with Morse Code by Hiting his head on his Pilliow
a Repetedly untill someone Noticed


ONE - Metallica

Seemed like a great story, until the bbc link that was posted. He has eye movement, they still have him wearing glasses at the end. Surely facial emotion and eye contact can provide a much easier way of communicating than the MRI scan. Just my thoughts.