Who Killed JFK? Wanna Know?

Originally posted by fokjock
reply to post by Rising Against

 

I can understand why Mr Wagner uses "lol"-I think he has quite clearly and succinctly explained his case.

Frame 312 in Zaprder does not correspond with the Nix film, Clearly, Greers hand cannot be where it is shown in 312, and yet the whole left arm swings across his body in Nix

WHY the discrepancy?


With regard to all the circumstances ,no convincing is required-instinctively, the answer stares you in the face-
William Greer shot JFK.

Did you notice that Rising Against claimed all three films were consistent but offered nothing to back it up? That assertion would indicate that he's looked at the films and can show that Greer's left arm does not push back in either other film. Bob Harris loves to make this false claim but would never put himself in a position to back it up because he's known it's false for a few years now.

On one hand Rising says the nix film is blurry and on the other claims all three are the same. It doesn't make any sense. The films can be made more clear but they both show Greer's left arm moving the same in nix and much. In Muchmore you can see it retracting immediately after the shot which hangs perfect with nix.

Lucien Sarti - a French Corsican involved with the French Connection Herion Trafficking Operation is suspected to be the shooter on the Grassy Knoll.

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...

Originally posted by cultureoftruth

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by cultureoftruth

 

If the driver shooting jfk is simple bunk as you say, then why doesn't his real left arm extend over with the headshot in Zapruder as it clearly does in both other films?

All films are consistent with each other. If you want to show otherwise, then please do so.. but, there's one rule here: We need to see clear film, nothing grainy please. Real, clear, easy to see evidence and then we'll believe you. And it is available. Otherwise you're simply choosing to believe whatever you want to believe going frmo what I've seen so far. I cite the natural occurring phenomenon known as Pareidolia here also.

Why doesn't Bob Harris show that Greer was passing an object with both hands off the wheel right before the shot?

Because no such action takes place, naturally. If it did, it would be shown in the film. But, unfortunately, it does not.

These are video facts that you continually ignore because the answers refute your deception.

Well, they're not "video facts" now, are they? If you have some however well then let's see them, we can maybe go somewhere with this then..

I also have some questions of my own for you:

- Why would Greer be a chosen assassin here? Given his position, his location, his job, his actual admiration for Kennedy which many, many secret service agents shared etc.. he would one of the silliest options to rest this dastardly plan on. Or, was he working alone? Enlighten us to what you believe exactly..

- How can a hand held weapon do the damage we see occurring, and given that Greer was towards the left front driving thus he would be shooting at a an angle pointing right in regards to JFK, why does he also fall back and to the left?

- Greer, not knowing if he "got away with it", drove JFK straight to hospital after the fatal blow struck where attempts were made to save his life.. Why would he do this, and strange of all.. why does he stick around?

- Given the nature of the Chicago plot, and perhaps one from Tampa, and the correlation they have with Oswald and Dallas.. Also taking into consideration Oswald's primed position as a patsy from the 6th floor of the TSDB... Why on earth would someone inside the Limousine be the one to pull off the kill shot? Someone in open view like that blows it wide open.

- How was Greer able to get the shot off without harming the others inside the Limousine.

- Why did no one else claim Greer was the one doing the firing? Such as Mary Moorman, Zapruder, the Hesters, Sitzman, Clint Hill, Sam Holland and the rest of the witnesses.


Answer those questions with plausible, rational answers.. and maybe we'll start to believe you. Otherwise I'm going to stick to what my facts are telling me.. Which is this theory is absolute nonsense. Cheers.

They aren't consistent with each other. Greer's left arm extends over with headshot in both other films and does not in Zapruder. That's the simple proof that you cannot refute. Every single post I've made is proven beyond any doubt. Not a single post of mine has been challenged. You have to show all three films are consistent with each other but won't try because they are not. You will lie over and over and over.LOL

edit on 2-8-2013 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-8-2013 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-8-2013 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

The reflection, is not off a pistol, it's off his head.

The Polaroid clearly shows the reflection.


Evidenced by where it's circled. Reflection is present.



Munchmore is from the OPPOSITE SIDE. Clearly the reflection would be missing as Munchmore is on the shaded side.



Same angle, against the sun. There couldn't be a reflection from this angle.



This one is such low quality that you can't make out the shoulder from the head, from the body, from the car seat, yet you attest to being able to CLEARLY see Greer's arm movement. Impossible.




This image is at an angle where you can't even see Greer at all, he's obstructed by the car itself. How can you track Greer's arms when you can't even see Greer?


What is a Bleached Gun? This doesn't exist, if by bleached you mean chrome? Why on earth would a would be stealth assassin use a shiny silver pistol on a sunny day in a convertible if he was trying not to be noticed?????

Also, a .45 caliber shot that close to unprotected ears would have caused massive ear drum damage to everyone in that car... most notably Greer himself. The muzzle would have been mere inches from his own ear, 4 inches or so from the broad in the back seat, who would have been in front of the muzzle. There would be no escaping ear drum damage at these distances... she would have also been powder burned as well as Connolly and the passenger.


Another thing to note, is a .45 caliber revolver has a hefty amount of muzzle kick. You expect anybody to believe Greer turned around whilst driving and shot him one handed over the shoulder and there was no muzzle flash or smoke discharge, or an uncontrolled kinetic burst kicking Greer's hand and shoulder?

I understand that people reported a "firecracker" but why is the smoke, flash, AND debris missing from all of the video's and still images?

If Greer shot JFK, it would have undoubtedly been a 22 caliber zip gun.




This would be the only way nobody would have seen it.

This would be the only way they wouldn't have suffered ear drum damage.

Most importantly, if Greer was a left handed shooter, he would have his gun holstered in one of two places. On his left hip, or his right breast. Both only suitable for left hand retrieval. I.E. There would have been ZERO reason to pass the gun from his right hand to his left hand to take the shot.

It doesn't make a lick of sense. And you are very FAR from proving that it does.

The WC is surely full of bull. The grassy gnoll may have been too, but equally so is "Driver Theory."

The only people who could believe Greer shot JFK are people who never fired a gun before. Period.

The truth is that this is just business as usual.Government is a financial mega-corporation with branches in every square mile of the United States – with investments in the entire world,,,,,,,,,,,

Government is nothing but the organization of crime. For a government that creates, adjudicates, enforces, and exempts itself from its own laws is thus lawless – a mafia above its own prescribed laws. When the law is lawless, there is no law.

The Doctors agree. Greer shot jfk with some type of high velocity handgun at close range.

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected '…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

reply to post by Laykilla


Talk about using the expression "off his head"-excuse me , but that is an adjective might be used in reply to your post.

You say there is a reflection in the Moorman polaroid-but none in the Muchmore, because it is on the "shaded" side-Excuse me? The time is 12.30 local, the sun is almost directly due south-so how can Muchmore be described as being in the "shaded area" -there are no shaded areas?

QUOTE "This one is such low quality that you can't make out the shoulder from the head, from the body, from the car seat, yet you attest to being able to CLEARLY see Greer's arm movement. Impossible."

As you magnify, quality decreases?-can't you understand this principle.However in magnifying the image, movement of Greer becomes clear.I have heard-may I say a "better" argument that the movement is Kellerman's and not Greer's as he the former has his hand rising to his mouth apparently with a microphone at exactly this time.This argument is better than the-if you'll forgive me-"bury your head in the sand argument " that you forlornly proposition.Clearly, the arm is Greer's , not Kellerman's because you see the left side of Greer's shirt cover with his jacket witnessed by part of Greer's collar being covered by the jacket-proving the movement is Greer's-not Kellerman's.
However for you to deny black is white when the truth is staring us all in the face is not is not simply not credible.
You have no argument.We don't accept your "impossible" just because you say so- when we can see with our own eyes the movement is Greer's

QUOTE "also, a .45 caliber shot that close to unprotected ears would have caused massive ear drum damage to everyone in that car... most notably Greer himself. The muzzle would have been mere inches from his own ear, 4 inches or so from the broad in the back seat, who would have been in front of the muzzle. There would be no escaping ear drum damage at these distances... she would have also been powder burned as well as Connolly and the passenger"

What do you mean "massive ear drum damage? -do you know what you are talking about? I have had a General Purpose machine gun go off next to me and never suffered "massive ear drum" damage.I have fired my bleached (sorry nickel plated) .357 Colt Python , my AR15 Sporter (bit louder), and NEVER suffered "massive ear drum damage.Okay, I probably took off a few decibels in the upper frequencies of my ears-but MASSIVE?-never!
It leads me to ask the question have you EVER fired a gun? (oh yes of course you have!?-lol) -then why are you talking nonsense about muzzle flashes on a sunny day and asking about smoke in the days when there is little noticeable smoke, esp from a sidearm?

QUOTE "Most importantly, if Greer was a left handed shooter, he would have his gun holstered in one of two places. On his left hip, or his right breast. Both only suitable for left hand retrieval. I.E. There would have been ZERO reason to pass the gun from his right hand to his left hand to take the shot"

So your logic is, despite what we see happening in Zapruder-ie Greer clearly passing the firearm between hands-that because he was a left handed shooter, there was ZERO reason to pass the gun? ie there was no plan of exactly how Greer would have performed the shooting?-he didn't practice a hundred times EXACTLY how he would perform it? -ahem, excuse me shome mishtake shurely?

For you to add the rider that the Warren Commission was "full of bull" (and gosh the Grassy Knoll too??)is supposedly designed to add weight to your credibility and judgement with regard to Greer the assassin??
-ahem, -no?

If someone who has looked honestly, looked seriously for some time with regard to all the circumstances surrounding Greer-they cannot fail to see- at the very least some merit in the proposition of Greer's guilt.

Those that do not-or cannot-include in their ranks those who do so because their own limitations and political persuasions-which needless to say would not be those which Jack Kennedy would have espoused.

4 inches or so from the broad in the back seat,

I don't appreciate that at all. Nellie Connally was a wonderful and brave woman who did so much to help others. The First lady of Texas organized and ran many Texas charities-including Untied Way-right up until the day she died.

While riding in the car with President Kennedy, she told him, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you." Within a few seconds, she heard the first of what she later concluded were three gunshots in quick succession.

I'm all for expressing opinions, and having faith in them, however this is simply overboard. To continue to pump this impossibility without ever mentioning the 28 witnesses close enough to see the expressions of President Kennedy. Until you show how this was done without them seeing a gun this is-to borrow a quote from Mr Poser:
Case Closed!

reply to post by spooky24


QUOTE "I'm all for expressing opinions, and having faith in them, however this is simply overboard. To continue to pump this impossibility"

How is it possible to persuade those who have already decided? (btw Posner is widely held in derision)-you yourself have already decided that it is impossible notwithstanding the evidence against Greer which you have plainly dismiss out of hand.

It is not the case that is closed.It is the mind.

With that sort of attitude, how could you be open to other ideas?

The case has been put for Greer's guilt. Any reasonable thinking person who is capable of thinking "outside the box" would conclude that there is a substantial case against Greer-one which answers many questions.

I previously added the rider:-

"Those that do not-or cannot-include in their ranks those who do so because their own limitations and political persuasions-which needless to say would not be those which Jack Kennedy would have espoused."

Take note.

reply to post by Laykilla


Your requirements to believe something that happened are irrelevant. Whether Greer's handgun was nickel plated or not is moot. He used a high velocity handgun (probably a revolver) and fired it into the still and wounded President's right forehead. BETZNER SAW GREER'S GUN.

www.jfk-online.com...

I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pulled out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car.

Originally posted by spooky24

4 inches or so from the broad in the back seat,

I don't appreciate that at all. Nellie Connally was a wonderful and brave woman who did so much to help others. The First lady of Texas organized and ran many Texas charities-including Untied Way-right up until the day she died.

While riding in the car with President Kennedy, she told him, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you." Within a few seconds, she heard the first of what she later concluded were three gunshots in quick succession.

I'm all for expressing opinions, and having faith in them, however this is simply overboard. To continue to pump this impossibility without ever mentioning the 28 witnesses close enough to see the expressions of President Kennedy. Until you show how this was done without them seeing a gun this is-to borrow a quote from Mr Poser:
Case Closed!

edit on 4-8-2013 by spooky24 because: (no reason given)

Uh, what? You quoted me -- even though I said the same as you.

Originally posted by cultureoftruth
reply to post by Laykilla

 

Your requirements to believe something that happened are irrelevant. Whether Greer's handgun was nickel plated or not is moot. He used a high velocity handgun (probably a revolver) and fired it into the still and wounded President's right forehead. BETZNER SAW GREER'S GUN.

www.jfk-online.com...

I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pulled out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car.

edit on 4-8-2013 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

Didn't see Greer's gun -- you're making that up. If Betzner saw Greer's gun, Betzner would have said "Greer had a gun!"

You guys are full of it.

Also, It totally matters if the gun was nickle plated. Why, because the entire reason people say Greer shot him is because of the shiny reflection that could only be possible if the gun was nickle plated.



Also, again.... There is nothing clear about Greer's movement in any of those videos other than Zapruder, which clearly DOESN'T show a gun in any frame.

The more you blow it up, the worse the quality gets, the more you blow it up, the LESS you can see. So in order to clear up that grainy footage, we would have to make it so small that we couldn't see what was happening in the footage.

And yes, I have fired a gun. a .45 colt. The same that was supposedly wielded by Greer. They are superficially loud. Your ears would ring for hours if it went off inches from your ear.

Go to a shooting range and don't wear ear muffs. Tell me how your ears hold up.

Originally posted by Laykilla

Originally posted by cultureoftruth
reply to post by Laykilla

 

Your requirements to believe something that happened are irrelevant. Whether Greer's handgun was nickel plated or not is moot. He used a high velocity handgun (probably a revolver) and fired it into the still and wounded President's right forehead. BETZNER SAW GREER'S GUN.

www.jfk-online.com...

I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pulled out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car.

edit on 4-8-2013 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

Didn't see Greer's gun -- you're making that up. If Betzner saw Greer's gun, Betzner would have said "Greer had a gun!"

You guys are full of it.

He said he saw a revolver in the Presiden't car.LOL That is corroborated by Greer passing the gun in the Zfilm before the shot and that same bleached object appearing (FRAME 319) out of nowhere after the shot. That is followed by Kellerman reaching way over to Greer's side to retrieve what was likely his own gun.

Originally posted by cultureoftruth
The Doctors agree. Greer shot jfk with some type of high velocity handgun at close range.

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected '…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

The Doctors don't agree that Greer shot him. No. The Doctors agree that it's likely he was shot by a heavy caliber pistol at close range. Not point blank range from the driver.

No doctor said "Greer shot JFK."

That is all supposition.

Originally posted by cultureoftruth

Originally posted by Laykilla

Originally posted by cultureoftruth
reply to post by Laykilla

 

Your requirements to believe something that happened are irrelevant. Whether Greer's handgun was nickel plated or not is moot. He used a high velocity handgun (probably a revolver) and fired it into the still and wounded President's right forehead. BETZNER SAW GREER'S GUN.

www.jfk-online.com...

I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pulled out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car.

edit on 4-8-2013 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

Didn't see Greer's gun -- you're making that up. If Betzner saw Greer's gun, Betzner would have said "Greer had a gun!"

You guys are full of it.

He said he saw a revolver in the Presiden't car.LOL That is corroborated by Greer passing the gun in the Zfilm before the shot and that same bleached object appearing (FRAME 319) out of nowhere after the shot. That is followed by Kellerman reaching way over to Greer's side to retrieve what was likely his own gun.

Oh so... he saw a revolver, but didn't see who was holding it?

GTFO.

The Doctors don't agree that Greer shot him. No. The Doctors agree that it's likely he was shot by a heavy caliber pistol at close range. Not point blank range from the driver.

No doctor said "Greer shot JFK."

That is all supposition.


Well given you state re the Doctors the above, logically the next question we have to ask who was in a position to fire that pistol?

Given that most Doctors at the time of initial examination agreed the throat and head shots were
fired from the front who were the known candidates who matched the qualification of being able to deliver a shot from the front?

Of those known to be able of delivering such a shot, which have the weight of evidence against them?
There is only one candidate-his name? William Greer

Evidence against Greer?

Sound evidence-the noise of the shot heard in the vicinity of the limo
The evidence of witnesses who saw suspicious behaviour of Greer
The nose witnesses who smelled powder off the street and off the clothes off the victims.
Greer's conduct after the crime-what he did,and what he said and to whom.
Greer's known lies to the Commission
The Zapruder film
The Nix film
Comparison of the 2 films

No-one else who could have fired a pistol at close range from the front come close to the suspicions against Greer and his nefarious activities.


That is not all supposition.

edit on 4-8-2013 by fokjock because: (no reason given)

reply to post by fokjock


Don't forget about Muchmore. That was a bigger problem because she was zoomed right on the limo.

Last I'm going to comment on this because it's a waste of time.

If you want to continue to promote this without detailing how this was done and not seen by the 18 witnesses that were within 23 feet of the car at the time of the head shot, then answer the challenge, and not ignore it and post another video showing a blurred image of the same thing over and over and over again.

You theory is like saying Godzilla came up out of the East river and knocked down both WTC Towers on 9/11. The 10 million witnesses that saw a plane hit it just..........were distracted... because I know I'm right and I don't have to answer challenges that all those people saw what really happened-why? because I know I'm right and that is all I need.

That is not science or debate it's narcissism.

reply to post by spooky24


Q "Last I'm going to comment on this because it's a waste of time."

Don't you really mean you have contributed to nothing, have read nothing , have understood .......nothing, rien, nichts.....yah-I see what you mean?


Did you think the answer after 50 years of interference with evidence, witnesses, statements, disinformation... was going to be a walk in the park?
The reason we are having this debate now is because it wasn't .We debate it now is through intelligent reasoning with regard to all the circumstances and evidence we are left with.

Culture of truth has went to great lengths to explain to you the pertinent evidence which bolsters the gifs he provided which answer many many questions.

Now what is it you don't understand about Bill Greer turning around with a pistol and shooting the President?

Any reasonable person given the video evidence alone would conclude there is a serious case to be had. However when married to the other evidence available, it makes a compelling case for Greer's culpability.

Time and again, I see those who when confronted with the evidence-resort to pathetic attempts to lower the tone of the debate- in your case we have -Godzilla, 911-because you have no answer-nothing but denials- when confronted by a fundamentally strong case.

As I keep mentioning, look to your own political beliefs and ask yourself, are you capable of disciplined objective reasoning in the case of the murder of a man who was and in death is stillhated by the right?

-where do you stand in all honesty?

May I suggest you are going because you know you are wrong and have nothing to contribute.?

We can disagree. We can debate. That is exactly what ATS is here for and it is encouraged. But the debating must be done with courtesy and decorum.

Please and thank you.

LBJ's mistress, Madeline Brown all but tells her that JFK will be dead tomorrow.

www.youtube.com...