Fear controls. But, doesn't happiness too?

To me, it seems we are highly controlled. So much so, that I doubt there is really a such thing as freedom.

We are kept on a path. For one, I didn't choose to be smithjustinb in the first place. So I am an unwilling participant in the human drama. For two, as a human, there are things I won't do because I am scared to. I wouldn't even know what to do if I wasn't scared to do some things. Which brings me to number three. We all want to be happy. If it weren't for a thing called happiness, no one would know what to do either.

It seems happiness and fear keep us on the move doing what it is that happiness and fear, as well as other emotions, want us to do.

What emotion is most desireable for you? Happiness? Why? Is that your choice?

We don't have a choice.

Are you going to choose what to eat for supper tonight? Maybe, but so what? Who's choice is it for you to have to eat in the first place? It's the recurring, automatic hunger in your stomach, and there's nothing you can do to stop it or change it.

Is there a God? It makes sense that we would conclude this, but there's no way of knowing for sure. If there's not, then who or what's purpose are we serving by living an automatic life. And what is the purpose?

We have to do what we do to get what we want. But what we want isn't what we want, but it is what we are made to want. Therefore, what we are doing isn't our choice either.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Is there a God?

i believe, god brings you to ask these questions. to make you aware or awake, that you are conditioned, programmed and directed. does god direct you ? i think so.

edit: the word god is partial, don't view this power in a already defined way like christian, muslim, jewish etc. "god" is a non-human entity acting on and directing human fates.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

What emotion is most desireable for you? Happiness? Why? Is that your choice?

You obviously have some happiness in your life. Some do not. Go long enough without any true happiness, and you will see that it is impossible to desire something that you know absolutely nothing about.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Are you going to choose what to eat for supper tonight? Maybe, but so what? Who's choice is it for you to have to eat in the first place?

You're reaching far with that one. If you honestly believe that eating is no more than a choice which has been artificially installed into your mind, then stop eating immediately. Eat nothing at all. Try to see just how many days you can go, before reaching the definitive conclusion of: Huh, imagine that, my body actually does need food.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Hi,

It is actually a really interesting topic you got there.Personally I dont believe that a humanoid god is controlling and judging us. But I do believe in some sort of energy.

You should read this article, it is in Danish so you should probably use google translate for it www.information.dk...

Also, try to read the book called something like "The living cell" and read articles about the quantum research. When you go to quantum size, the laws of the physics dont even apply any more - its really fascinating.

Cheers

This is actually what Islam is. Allah = the one creator

Everything we perceive as our 'reality' is merely a reflection of god given to us to witness and experience.

Originally posted by chadderson
This is actually what Islam is. Allah = the one creator

Everything we perceive as our 'reality' is merely a reflection of god given to us to witness and experience.

Year and the Christians thinks he called Jarhve, and the Indians is called Krishna, and the old Egyptians had Ra'h.

One think I dont understand, why in the world would a god have such a hard time telling the different regions who he is?

God just wants you to be content with what is appearing - with what he has provided. But humans live with fear and desire - the fear of losing and the desire of winning. They want more. They feel lack.
So they look elsewhere, they look to the future, they are searching to find what completes them.
All there is is this. Do not look elsewhere. The end of seeking is the only thing worth finding.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
God just wants you to be content with what is appearing - with what he has provided. But humans live with fear and desire - the fear of losing and the desire of winning. They want more. They feel lack.
So they look elsewhere, they look to the future, they are searching to find what completes them.
All there is is this. Do not look elsewhere. The end of seeking is the only thing worth finding.

edit on 12-11-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Actually, instead of looking for god, one should just try to look inside one self, there you will find the answers to what you need.

reply to post by smithjustinb


I have come to much the same conclusions and questions. The way my life evolved, being in a household of philosophers , psychoanalysts, and psychotherapists, certain inescapable process of mind were always evoked.

Then my path lead me into animal training, and understanding much of the reflexes and drives of the organism and how they determine behavior- not only in other animals, but in humans as well!

What you end up with is that you have this built in system that is attracted towards pleasure, repulsed by discomfort, and then the environment around you which offers one or the other. You end up without really much room for freewill in all that!
-for even the will, the self, is formed by this system!

I am still holding on to the idea that we have some freewill- there is a part of me that percieves, and it percieves some choices to make- perhaps limited, but we haven't a destiny traced out for us. There are crossroads here and there.

Originally posted by mc4denmark

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
God just wants you to be content with what is appearing - with what he has provided. But humans live with fear and desire - the fear of losing and the desire of winning. They want more. They feel lack.
So they look elsewhere, they look to the future, they are searching to find what completes them.
All there is is this. Do not look elsewhere. The end of seeking is the only thing worth finding.

edit on 12-11-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Actually, instead of looking for god, one should just try to look inside one self, there you will find the answers to what you need.

What is here presently is God.
God is everything and nothing. The everything is the seen and the nothing is what is seeing.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You could say it like that, the unfortunate thing is that when someone identify god as e.g. Jehovah, then this god is the only one, and all others are believing in is demons and what not. Which creates conflicts and death as we seen countless times.

If people just could say they believe in them self, and not listen to preachers and so on, we would come a long way.

reply to post by mc4denmark


There is no 'self' separate from God.
This right here and right now is the presence of the lord.
There is nothing else.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So what you are saying is?

reply to post by mc4denmark

There is no 'self' separate from God.
This right here and right now is the presence of the lord.
There is nothing else.

THIS IS IT!!

First, for most people, happiness is not an emotion they ever experiences, or maybe only in the smallest amounts. For most it's the ultimate goal, the goal that drives them and what makes them get up in the morning.

There are only two emotions that drives humanity: and these are "fear" and "desire".... all the rest comes from these two.
Desire for happiness and fear that you will never have it.

As for freedom...
I think in essence we have total freedom.
You can choose not to eat or not to sleep. No one is stopping you or telling you that you can't do that, but it's you who has to live (or die) with the concequences.
You can choose to not go to work today, but the concequence of that is undesirable.
You make the choices every minute of the day... most probably you will choose the path of less resistance, meaning the path that gives you the less feelings of 'fear' and most of 'fullfilment'... it doesn't mean you where not free to choose the other way.

Each and every one of us is responsible for their own actions...
I think it is exactly because most of us are not willing to face the concequences of certain actions that they conclude that they don't have the freedom to do them.
It's grand self-delusion.

Personally I can't stand it when ppl clame they have no freedom. Of course you have!
If someone wants to make himself a good life then he himself will have to put in the work and effort to create one. To say "I have no freedom" is an excuse and in some individuals even a sign of lazyness!
MHO.... flame away


I know this women who is constantly saying she has no freedom.
She doesn't have a car so she can't find a good job... so she doesn't look for a job.
And she has a child... and since she doesn't have a job she can't pay for daycare, which again is why she doesn't have the freedom to look for a job! And since she doesn't work she has little money so she doesn't have the freedom for a whole lot of things. And she goes on and on.
I say BS.
go on foot, take your bike, look for a carpool, no matter the job: DO something!
Then, she concludes in the most spiritual tone:
That is just the way my path is layed out for me! it's my destiny...

Now when someone says that to me, I really just want to smack them! 'it's destiny that I'm soooo miserable and I don't have a say in it".... how pathetic.

There is always an option, even if it's the one you desire least of all.
There... always... is...the...freedom...of... a... choice.!

reply to post by BrokenCircles


i think u missed the point.

reply to post by GypsK


You mentioned consequences. It is consequences that influence our behavior. We refrain from certain actions and likewise carry out certain actions because of consequences. We seek what we are made to seek. Even if we appear to make choices, our choices are largely predetermined by our anatomy and our environment. There is lesser and lesser room for genuine choice.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by GypsK

 

You mentioned consequences. It is consequences that influence our behavior. We refrain from certain actions and likewise carry out certain actions because of consequences. We seek what we are made to seek. Even if we appear to make choices, our choices are largely predetermined by our anatomy and our environment. There is lesser and lesser room for genuine choice.

I disagree with you, because the "Golden Rule," is still in place here. If everyone followed it, there would be no need to even question fear or happiness. The rule is old as dirt, but people choose to ignore it. For every action, there is a reaction.

As to anatomy, that one is simple, if you don't know how to keep your hand off of a hot stove, you are going to get burned.

Being able to make genuine choices is not true. Turn off your television for a while, it was barely Halloween and Christmas ads were already showing up on the tube.

It's called awareness. Just because those Christmas ads showed up so early this year, I have decided not to participate this year in the holidays, whatsoever, outside of cooking a wonderful meal to share with my family, and that is what it's all about, not shopping early. Retailers blew it.

There will be no gift giving in my household this year, simply do to the fact, of people trying to get me to buy extra early, even before black friday!

We do still have choices. Awareness is part of that.

Originally posted by Sissel


the "Golden Rule," is still in place here. If everyone followed it, there would be no need to even question fear or happiness. The rule is old as dirt, but people choose to ignore it.

I disagree with you enthousiastically!!
But if I delve into that it will be going off topic,
so maybe I'll start another thread on it...

Originally posted by Bluesma


I disagree with you enthousiastically!!
But if I delve into that it will be going off topic,
so maybe I'll start another thread on it...

Great, I hope you do. That is what ATS is all about, so thanks, really. I've never been one to hold back from other people's opinions and ideas!