The beezzer Principle/Party

Wait...did you just say that Obama abhores the wealthy elite 1%?

I dont get any checks, and I dont know any who does! We are enslaved by a lack of oportunity E.G. a level playing field!

I hope you are aware that without the Bush era tax breaks we would not have a spending problem. That top 2% holds 90%+ of this nation's wealth. Yes that is worse than most banana republic's! Without the monopolists systems these men employ there would be a more level playing field and the wealth would be better distributed among the populous which would see a nation the likes of which has never been seen. You say we should just better manage the scaps among us, but I say we have been cheated out of an equal oportunity as our forefathers were driven out of business by cheat thieves who now do not want to pay their fair share!

America is built on the backs of the middle class! Not the few who have extorted, cheated their way to the top! You want to restore American industry? Implement quality standards, require that all products come with a mandatory 1-2 year warranty. That cheap Chinese crap will not be able to compete and the loss Wal-Mart et all encounters will see American quality put the cheap imports where they belong. In the trash!

We need the tools we have to fight extreme poverty, else we will see shanty towns-slums like you see in Africa. We have millions who will never do anything to better themselves and if we don't keep em out of the dirt we are all dirtied!

We are the richest nation on the planet. Anything to the contrary is just an illusion and or BS. If we elect systems that guarantee a high standard of living or that guarantee our less fortunate are cared for. Its 100% all American and the best our Democracy has to offer. Stop waging wars and spending untold trillions on military! Stop dropping bombs and feed the hungry. In this land of plenty there is no reason why any need to live in the dirt Beezzer!

We have legislation in place for good reason Beezzer. Give the wrong men the reins and you will very quickly find yourself in the spot we are in now. A level playing field and an end to unfair monopolist systems should be our goal! The restoration of America should start with the restoration of the Mom and Pop dream (The real American Dream that built this nation.).

Stop acting like this is somehow our fault! Certainly we have those who take advantage but this not the case for the majority. This spending crisis, oil hikes, and the housing mess were are all engineered affairs. The Dollar will be worth exactly what they decide it should be worth! Competitive devaluation Beezzer, they dont want a stronger dollar!

How do we help all the homeless that had their homes repossessed by the banks and lost their jobs.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by AboveBoard
reply to post by beezzer

 

I love the nobility of 1) realizing that people really do work hard and still need help if they are going to get anything more than what they currently have, which may be subsidized by the government and, 2) that, to quote someone not very popular on these threads, we need to create "ladders of opportunity," and 3) that We the People can have a role in doing this, rather than waiting for the Federal and State governments to do this.

I particularly like this idea because there are people who simply cannot work, who are so disabled or medically incapacitated that they are completely unable to help themselves. We have a growing population of these individuals (and I won't start ranting about why I think this is so) and imo they are the ones who most need the social safety net. There would be no lack-of-funding issues for these folks if we could get more people out of poverty.

I don't know how many people here have had occasion to look into the gaping void that is Medicaid. While it provides absolutely necessary and 100% needed services to those who are very disabled, the other population it serves is the very poor. It provides necessary, life-saving services to them too, but they might be able to work for themselves if there was a way out of the Medicaid trap. The latter category, the very poor, is the one I want to address.

The problem goes like this: 1) you find yourself facing a financial disaster, say from a major uninsured chronic health problem so, 2) to save your life, or the life of a loved one, you take the plunge into Medicaid - you give up your home, all your assets including your car, and you stop working the job that wouldn't pay for either your insurance or enough for you to purchase it on your own. 3) you are completely stuck.

IF you want to get out of poverty, but you have a medical condition that needs care in your family, there was no where to go - you couldn't do it. That is why my family clung by our nails to the edge of that abyss, and I'm very grateful we could.

Something else not very popular on these boards is actually a new ladder out of the Medicaid poverty trap, at least for those who are there for medical reasons. It is one of the genius aspects that people completely overlook - and I know a lot of folks won't like hearing it. Obamacare. Yep. (cringing from the wrath of fellow ATSers). It is the first way to get out of the Medicaid trap that I have ever seen.

Now, you can 1) not be denied insurance so you don't have to stay on Medicaid to get help, 2) you can go back to work and start digging out of poverty because your health insurance will start off being subsidized until you make enough money to pay for it yourself.

I've looked into the abyss. Now for the first time, people are being thrown a rope that isn't designed to hang themselves by, but can actually help them pull themselves out. Now, the people wanting out of poverty who are not there because of a medical problem - I'm not sure what the final solution is to that - but I think you are moving in a very good direction. The Obamacare solution is somewhat narrow in that the individual on Medicaid has to be capable of working, but it is perfect for parents of a medically fragile child, or for someone who can return to work after successful treatment. (edit to add that last statement...)

One more thing. We need a livable minimum wage, imo. I know that isn't very popular either. Perhaps there could be a tax incentive for people who offer their employees a livable wage? In other words, it could balance out the extra Social Security and Medicaid employer-taxes through incentives, thus making it no harder to give people a livable wage, vs. a minimum wage?? If we do that, then people wanting to transition from poverty will have more motivation and an actual way out that keeps food on the table.

The thing is, beezer my friend, I'm not in any way adverse to "bootstrap pulling," hard work, self-reliance or personal responsibility for those who are capable of it.

I really like your ideas for how to help people with other kinds of issues get out of their situation - there needs to be WAY more of this kind of thinking and WAY less blaming, shaming and "Other-izing." (I think I just coined a term!)

peace,
AB

edit on 10-11-2012 by AboveBoard because: edit to clarify

Does anyone know if there is a time limit on Welfare? If not then maybe there should be, with the exception of people with severe disabilities. Unemployment benefits run out after 16 months, I think (I could be wrong; I am not unemployed). There should be a limit on welfare.

reply to post by beezzer


Wait a minute candidate beezer, hold on a minute

What is you stand on Iran issue, do you support pre-emptive wars
and if you do can you comment on financial and human costs of such wars

Thank you.

reply to post by LostPassword


Well, yeah Beezzers game to take Iran out! Hell give me the bomb and a billion bucks for my trouble and I'll make the run myself!

Cash = the loudest voice in America!

reply to post by rival

This isn't the beezzer principle...this is the good old days--When hobos would ask to work for a meal.

Agreed. In those days, a hobo could ride the trains to another town down the line and nobody arrested them for it. Now you can't even be found on the tracks without being arrested by the Transportation Authority cops for trespassing. Razor wire is wrapped around the bridges to prevent people from living under them. And those towns down the line don't have work for migrants anymore. Today a Migrant or Hobo is thought to be criminal, not a man who needs a square for some labor.

And the street Entrepreneur who plies his wares on the corner? Thats illegal without a permit. Remember T-shirt salesman that would hang shirts or rugs over the fences on street corners and make a buck? How about impromptu markets that sprang up in abandoned lots where people would bring a carload of fruit or vegetables or fleamarklet items and cords of wood? Illegal here in Ca. Axed.

How do they expect one to start from scratch? Colonel Sanders cooked chicken for his neighbors and wrought that into an empire. So did Wend'ys. But now if you bake a batch of cookies or fritters and take them to the mall and try to sell them in the parking lot you will be evicted by the police and fined by the health department.

Oh and those guys standing on off ramps with little will work signs are scammers. Usually heroin addicts who need a fix by noon to keep from getting sick. They haven't got the time to work, they have to score. Don't give them money, give them a poncho, a wool cap or mini flashlight. They can't spend that on dope and will thank you immensely.

The problem is corporations don't want you making money from their customers. You're their competition. Thats why all the regulations, permit requirements and taxes to start a business. Unless you already have enough to apply for the permits, purchase equipment and open a store front, forget it, they don't want you in their line of work.

I don't know how to fix all that without starting over.

I personally do not fear the government at all. What I fear is not having a job because business speaks chineese and I only know english. I fear not making a pay check. Should I learn chineese? What if business then moves to india...should I learn indian?

Where does free trade insanity stop and business come back? Why have we allowed business to get away with free trade? Why does no one talk about free trade and why it is bad? Does wall street own our government? Yes I think so.

Beezer's diagnosis is wrong, and thus the medication will only make the patient worse.

Same #. Conservatives only know one god. The money god! What is good for business is good for conservatives. Plus many wars based on the bogey men al-cia-da. ATS is no longer a serious conspiracy site, it might as well be called fox news 2. Fox news expanded!

Might I make a suggestion? I understand that the goal is to help individuals without getting the government involved. In some cases that would mean immediate needs being met, food, clothing, etc. In other cases, longer term assistance.

I see a number of ways to do this. The simplest of course is to find an organization that does this already and support them with money or service. The Salvation Army comes to mind, as do St. Vincent de Paul's, and local rescue shelters and kitchens.

Another method might be to find an existing organization which has a charitable purpose, there are dozens of national, reputable ones. Join that organization, gain a little influence, and start steering them to the kind of programs you're interested in. "Converting" an organization multiplies your strength enormously, and it's not hard to do if they're already inclined to help people.

One organization I belong to has many members with various backgrounds, including teachers, doctors, and bankers. There are a lot of strengths existing in the community for you to use.

I don't know if this is what the noble beezzer has in mind, but I'd be happy to expand on my experiences if he'd like.

Ok I will bite. I am currently on workers comp and social security disability, have 5 kids, mortgage payment, bills etc. I am going for round 2 of back surgery this coming friday. How does your plan help me? I cannot work, I have plenty of skills, training. I have been in this boat for 4 yrs now, the fiance is almost finished with school and will be entering the workforce within a couple of months with a degree which will help I hope. Somehow I have managed to scrape by and save us from losing our house etc , and pay for food, considering we don't qualify for public assistance, yea what a joke that one is. So I am all ears for these plans people talk about because when I say we have no buffer zone in our budget we really don't. We are one blown out tire, broken furnace away from being at level with the bills and being behind. And to add I have to laugh when I see people "thinking" about survival, our family lives it everyday, we have learned to get the most out of everything and how to spend wisely, while watching others being foolish.

Why do people worry about the poor? You guys are either hypocrites or severly confused. If we cut welfare and all government subsidies what makes people confident that a small percentage of selfish, greedy folks will somehow change their mind and want to contribute to charities? The same people that look at the dow jones before they drink their first cup of coffee.

Why do people fear the government? Are you afraid they are gonna take your guns away? Are you afraid they are going to put an end to your wall street dreams of becoming a millionare without working? Are you afraid they are going to strengthen unions, when they are doing the complete opposite?

I honestly don't get it. Maybe I need to drink more koolaid?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

If we cut welfare and all government subsidies what makes people confident that a small percentage of selfish, greedy folks will somehow change their mind and want to contribute to charities? The same people that look at the dow jones before they drink their first cup of coffee.

The wealthy do contribute to charity, remember Trump? He was prepared to donate $5 million. Millionaires start foundations and donate all the time. (Just as a possibly relevant aside, the 8 most generous states went for McCain and the 7 stingiest went for Obama. philanthropy.com... )

If you were given the choice of donating $100 to a local food shelf, or sending it to Washington for distribution, which would you pick?

Why do people fear the government?

In this situation it's not a matter of fearing government, it's realizing that their programs are wasteful, dehumanizing, and ineffective. Certainly, even you would like improvement. No, just adding more money is not improvement.

I honestly don't get it. Maybe I need to drink more koolaid?

Whatever you think might help.

reply to post by charles1952


Donating money to charities is a tax write-off that lowers your taxable income. Many people do it for this reason, and not necessarily because of their kind heart. Of course the government is wasteful and the more right it gets, the more wasteful.

But why do you make the rich's mans arguement? Not picking on you, just find it odd that so many are making the rich mans arguement. Big government, small government is a false dichotomy as far as mainstream politics are concerned. All nwo!

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by rival

 

This isn't the beezzer principle...this is the good old days--When hobos would ask to work for a meal.

Agreed. In those days, a hobo could ride the trains to another town down the line and nobody arrested them for it. Now you can't even be found on the tracks without being arrested by the Transportation Authority cops for trespassing. Razor wire is wrapped around the bridges to prevent people from living under them. And those towns down the line don't have work for migrants anymore. Today a Migrant or Hobo is thought to be criminal, not a man who needs a square for some labor.

But they give you free food and housing in prison. It's not like it's the end of the world for a starving hobo. I'm mostly joking.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Dear EarthCitizen07,

Thanks for your patient response.

I don't know what peoples motives for donating are, I'm happy they do it. You're right that there might be fewer donations if the deduction were abolished, but I hope it isn't abolished. As I mentioned, I would rather have the money go to a charity than to the government. I'm not sure which party is more wasteful when they govern, but either one is more wasteful than if I go to our food shelf and give them $50.

I don't know about the rich man's argument, I've never been one. But in the small versus large government debate, I would rather have a federal government with a smaller budget, that way they have less to waste. I think money is more effectively spent as the decisions get closer to the people.

If government does less, then people do more. They become more self-reliant and community oriented. I think a people like that would be harder to suck into the NWO you speak of.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by texasgirl


Hey Texasgirl,
I believe it is determined by the states. There are a majority of states (40?) that have time-based limits.
The only problems I see with time-based limits for people other than the disabled are that 1) there must be an economy producing jobs for them to be able to be hired and, 2) there must be some form of job-training or program to assist people without credentials to be able to make a livable wage during the time they are on welfare, or what's the point? 3) there must also be a supportive social structure in place to help keep someone from slipping back down, especially those that started out from poverty and whose social structure is based in that environment.

In any case, imo welfare without future-planning and means to get people off of welfare and back up the financial ladder (or up it for the first time) is not helping the situation ultimately. But that's easy for me to say, as I'm not living in extreme poverty - I don't know all the dynamics of it. It is not hard to fall on unexpected hard times (well, I do know about that!), nor is it possible to choose where we are born and with what resources; that is why we have developed a system "to promote the common welfare" as is stated in the Constitution. I wish I did know all the answers and could whip out an awesome solution! Instead I just offer my humble two cents...

peace,
AB

Another thought. A portion of poverty and a significant portion of homelessness comes from the prevalence of untreated or unrecognized mental illness. From what I understand, we don't do a very good job, or at least haven't in the past, of providing treatment for mental illness - another failing of private insurance, bad diagnoses and poor funding for veterans coming home with PSTD, and a culture of shame regarding mental illness. Many who fall into this category self-medicate with street drugs and alcohol, and get labeled simply as 'addicts' without the underlying issue being treated. Mental illness is devastating and can be very hard to treat in the best of circumstances.

Another small chunk of homelessness and poverty in my area is domestic violence - women trying to escape dangerous situations who then find themselves on the run with nothing - it is no joke - there are at least two primary charities dealing with this, and one doesn't even include women with children. These are people who may also have other issues going on - health, mental health, education/certification, etc. And some of them get out of that situation and move on with their lives to better things. Some do not. I'm mentioning this to point out the variety of circumstances people find themselves in at the bottom.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to help people, there is a whole pile of data - reasons for poverty, reasons for homelessness, reasons for disabilities, reasons for addiction, reasons for staying with what people know and with their families regardless of the negative environment, etc.

I would bet on a whole interconnected web of factors being in play within and around any individual in the position of needing help. If it were simple, I think we'd be doing a better job of fixing it.

peace,
AB

reply to post by beezzer

You know what?I don't think you are what you seem to be.No member is more important than the others, this is not a popularity contest,this is a conspacy forum.Why are you given so much attention Beezzer, what makes you so special?I have been here for a loooooong time and no member ever for the last seven years here on ATS has garnered so much attention,I think you are full of #, and I don't know why so many people give a # your wife is on ATS (with all respects to the lady)it's a conspiracy, not a family forum,but that is just my humble opinion.

reply to post by adnachiel21

Ok, assume you are right that beezzer is full of rabbit droppings. What do you think of the ideas he presented? or, for a shameless plug, the ideas I presented?