What if a welfare society is a good idea after all?

OK, I can see you getting ready to throw bottles at my head through the chickenwire like the patrons at that country and western bar in the Blues Brothers. Here me out before the frothing commences...this is a pretty speculative idea but we are here to speculate, no?

What if more and more welfare for more and more people really is the wave of the future...and what if this is a good thing?

First of all, let's look at automation. Factories are increasingly run by robots. We don't even need cashiers in Wal-mart anymore...they can do auto-checkout. Information flows like a firehose gusher from the Internet. All this is only going to increase in the years ahead.

Meanwhile we have outsourcing and offshoring...what can't be made by robots can be made in China or elsewhere for literally pennies a day.

The result of these acclerating trends is an abundance of stuff, made dirt cheap...warehouse shelves groan under the weight of unsold inventory, parking lots are packed with shiny new cars. Millions of foreclosed but quite-livable homes stand empty. There is so much stuff but nobody to buy it since jobs are disappearing. But here is where welfare comes in: Why not simply pump up the volume and make it so that all the out-of-work strugglers have the money necessary to buy all this nifty stuff that's just hanging around?

It seems evntually technology will remove the need for almost all human work. Instead of that being a cause for fear (of losing jobs) like it is now, why not look at it as the ultimate liberation --- The end of work! Welfare for all! Free stuff! A paradise!

I'm sure there are plenty of kinks to be ironed out in this vision, and getting from here to there will take some doing. But if you are open-minded enough to entertain the possibility...doesn't it make a certain amount of sense?

reply to post by TheXoor


Just keep pounding your head into that keyboard son.

That would work, if say the trillions given to the international banks were instead given to the citizens. They could have spent the money into circulation causing economic growth. It is not a very sound economic practice, because people will just want more, but it would have been better than giving it to politicians and banksters.

Poverty would sky rocket if foodstamps were cut and millions would go hungry.

This, with the strength of all my hopes, is what we're moving towards. A society where the government uses tax funds to help the people and not wage war on helpless countries. But an automated welfare state isn't enough. We need real change. The earth needs us to have real change.

The Venus Project

Originally posted by TheXoor
OK, I can see you getting ready to throw bottles at my head through the chickenwire like the patrons at that country and western bar in the Blues Brothers. Here me out before the frothing commences...this is a pretty speculative idea but we are here to speculate, no?

What if more and more welfare for more and more people really is the wave of the future...and what if this is a good thing?

First of all, let's look at automation. Factories are increasingly run by robots. We don't even need cashiers in Wal-mart anymore...they can do auto-checkout. Information flows like a firehose gusher from the Internet. All this is only going to increase in the years ahead.

Meanwhile we have outsourcing and offshoring...what can't be made by robots can be made in China or elsewhere for literally pennies a day.

The result of these acclerating trends is an abundance of stuff, made dirt cheap...warehouse shelves groan under the weight of unsold inventory, parking lots are packed with shiny new cars. Millions of foreclosed but quite-livable homes stand empty. There is so much stuff but nobody to buy it since jobs are disappearing. But here is where welfare comes in: Why not simply pump up the volume and make it so that all the out-of-work strugglers have the money necessary to buy all this nifty stuff that's just hanging around?

It seems evntually technology will remove the need for almost all human work. Instead of that being a cause for fear (of losing jobs) like it is now, why not look at it as the ultimate liberation --- The end of work! Welfare for all! Free stuff! A paradise!

I'm sure there are plenty of kinks to be ironed out in this vision, and getting from here to there will take some doing. But if you are open-minded enough to entertain the possibility...doesn't it make a certain amount of sense?

Why buy all the 'stuff' in the first place? Why not just have people work maybe 3 days a week , producing what is really needed more locally, have more of an economy that provides 'experiences' rather than 'hard goods', I think most could have a much better quality of life working maybe 20 hours a week, much more time for family and relaxation, lower health care costs,, slow down a bit, enjoy life, sure let's live for the welfare of The People rather than Satanic Bloodlines, I'm all for it. think they'll agree???

Originally posted by TheXoor
It seems eventually technology will remove the need for almost all human work.

NO it won't, it will remove mostly hazardous and repetitive jobs, intellect ones will always be needed more and more, and that's how you build a solid economy. China is only big now cause stole a lot of tech from the outsourcing the US done there. You create wealth with development, but you need to share that reinvesting and keep the circle going, and that was not done in US. CEO's keep the money did not reinvested where gave them the solid foundations to became multi-nationals.

They took the money from your country, became big, outsourced and then gave you the finger, greed and selfishness is the reason US will fall.

it is good. Immagrints can work for us while Real Americans receive more tax income and more welfare money

reply to post by TheXoor


It all boils down to energy. Since humanity has begun bartering, buying, and selling, we have ultimately been trading in energy.

When we hit the industrial revolution, everybody thought the same thing. They thought "Oh boy! Now we no longer need to be slaves since the work is divided among us and the machines and therefore we will all be rich and never hungry!" Nope. It was killed by predatory capitalism and elitism. Then with the spark of the oil industry we thought "with the ability to ship anything anywhere, we won't have to slave nearly as hard!". Nope again.

We do have the means to raise the minimum quality of life in 1st world nations to at least shelter, food, and basic needs. The rich will still be rich and there will still be people who want more and therefore will go out and get it. The rest? Let them eat and live. I am not jealous of single moms on food stamps. I am happy my income can help support them and any other person out there who needs food, no matter how "lazy" they are. It's not like their lifestyles are better than mine, no matter what right-wing blog lies you subscribe to.

I don't mind because we can do it. This is the 21st century and there is no excuse to have starving or homeless people. I don't care what you think is "fair". It's not about fair.

All it will take is a limitless source of energy and that will trickle out and effect every facet of life. I'd say that 20 years after the discovery (or acceptance of the technology we already have), nobody will "have" to work. We always act like there is some code of honor that makes society live by certain work ethics. That's garbage. We won't recognize what work is in four decades.

We all pay one way or another. Let people starve and they're going to steal from you. Don't provide a decent level of healthcare and you'll pay higher hospital bills. That kind of thing. I just wish there were fairer ways to administer it across the board to those with true need.

Great book sort of on this subject...and on a lot of other subjects discussed here, especially considering when it was written: For Us, The Living

we will let bill cosby talk about this.



He has some thoughts on this.

Man if eveyone was (is) on welfare, crime would skyrocket because it would not be enough money.

Honesty, people who are now on welfare that is able to work needs to be doing community service to contribute to society and not sitting next to a mailbox.

This issue and its like has been discussed for several centuries now. Alexander Hamilton call them the "vapors of the melancholy mind". In fact you can see it here in some of these posts...melancholia.

Originally posted by filosophia
That would work, if say the trillions given to the international banks were instead given to the citizens. They could have spent the money into circulation causing economic growth. It is not a very sound economic practice, because people will just want more, but it would have been better than giving it to politicians and banksters.

Even if folks wanted more, dumping money into that many economic units at once, say 50k per citizen would cause inflation. Prices for everyday consumer good would spike in price sharply.

Originally posted by Logarock
Even if folks wanted more, dumping money into that many economic units at once, say 50k per citizen would cause inflation. Prices for everyday consumer good would spike in price sharply.

I hear this said a lot and yet they keep dumping trillions and trillions into the banks and there is some inflation but not all that much. Makes me start to wonder who is zooming who...

Originally posted by sylent6
Man if eveyone was (is) on welfare, crime would skyrocket because it would not be enough money.

Honesty, people who are now on welfare that is able to work needs to be doing community service to contribute to society and not sitting next to a mailbox.

Why not help them get (own) a cheap piece of ground, to allow them to help themselves, (I think I saw a story about Russia doing this), no need to be on welfare, let people produce for themselves if the market can't retain adequate jobs. The Amish exist quite well in many places, maybe many are going to be challenged with adopting a radically diferent lifestyle sooner than later. I'm not sure my paltry 401k is going to be there for me, 'social security;, I'm not counting on it. Maybe a big garden this year. And some chickens too.

Originally posted by sylent6
Man if eveyone was (is) on welfare, crime would skyrocket because it would not be enough money.

Honesty, people who are now on welfare that is able to work needs to be doing community service to contribute to society and not sitting next to a mailbox.

What makes you think the majority of welfare recipients aren't already working? Most wal-mart employees qualify for government assistence of some sort not because they aren't working but because what walmart pays won't even begin to cover their basic expenses. Its extremely difficult to find full time work because employeers have long since discovered that its cheaper to hire multiple part timers to pay minimum wage than hire a full time employee that will eventually recieve benefits and/or health care. You simply cannot get ahead by working multiple part time jobs that will never lead to health care or benefits. In my state you can work 40 hours a week at minimum wage and still get food stamps.

The lazy welfare man/woman who refuses to work is largely a myth used to justify spending cuts. It happens but it's rare.

Originally posted by TheXoor


What if more and more welfare for more and more people really is the wave of the future...and what if this is a good thing?


sense?

You’re kidding right?
It’s been tried before. It’s called communism. It starts out great and ends real, real bad.
Don’t they teach this sh*t in school anymore?

Originally posted by TheXoor

Originally posted by Logarock
Even if folks wanted more, dumping money into that many economic units at once, say 50k per citizen would cause inflation. Prices for everyday consumer good would spike in price sharply.

I hear this said a lot and yet they keep dumping trillions and trillions into the banks and there is some inflation but not all that much. Makes me start to wonder who is zooming who...

Banks can regulate the flow of its cash under its normal means by way of loans. Do you see what all the unsecured money floating around over the years before the fallout did. Created a fake economic condition as you know it the bubble.....and it will burst every time sooner or later.

If on the other hand everybody got a personal stimulus check cash value would drop because of abundance of cash. So prices would spike and wouldnt fall again untill all the lose money were burnt off and otherwise tied up in the pockets of the retailers for example.

Originally posted by murfdog

Originally posted by TheXoor


What if more and more welfare for more and more people really is the wave of the future...and what if this is a good thing?


sense?

You’re kidding right?
It’s been tried before. It’s called communism. It starts out great and ends real, real bad.
Don’t they teach this sh*t in school anymore?

war is peace
ignorance is strength
freedom is slavery