The US is NOT a Democracy! PERIOD.

I actually had to stop watching the first third party debate hosted by Larry King after a few minutes because every single one of them kept repeating that the US is a Democracy (read pure democracy) right from the get go on the very first question that was related to ballot system and the privilege of the two main parties.

I am not even sure when this meme got started and took hold of apparently every single mind in the country. The US is a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, or simply put a REPUBLIC, NOT A DEMOCRACY! The founding founders themselves qualified pure democracy as MOB RULE, and created the whole system that we do have to specifically AVOID PURE DEMOCRACY, as well as tyranny (how funny that nowadays we have the illusion of first one and the reality of the second one).

And the funny thing to me is that so many have bought the illusion that we have fought wars overseas to (beside other equally illusory reasons) spread "OUR" Democracy (read pure democracy) to the rest of the world!!! If it wasn't so absurd I might actually laugh. And EVEN if you still want to think it is a pure democracy, which it isn't and if you still are pushing for it you are clueless, but lets say even if you do, you would know that even that misperception is full of holes because even if the fakery of the two party system (two sides of the same coin with puppets at the forefront) or the paperless voting machines that have been proven over and over again that they can be tampered with (and quite easily and quite often) you should by now know that the only true power in the "election" process is the power of MONEY (which itself is another illusion, but that is besides the point for this current rant), yes the money that is dished out by the corporate/banking cartels and other equally corrupting interest groups. So anyway you look at it, from the true historical perspective OR the realist perception based on a historical misperception, THE US IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, PERIOD!

Even if you only watched John Adams on HBO for a historic perspective you would know that the electoral college was to be elected by the people of each state and they would meet to represent their states and cast THEIR votes as representative of the people of their state in order to elect the President and the person that came in second would get to be the Vice President. So unless I am not aware of recent changes to the constitution this is STILL the current system, and in fact obviously IT IS and anyone that has watched any election night coverage knows it is ALL ABOUT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE votes, NOT YOUR VOTES. They PRETEND that your votes determine how the electoral college votes get "allocated", but that is pure HORSE S@#$T, so the whole bound or unbound ridiculousness that went down in regards to Ron Paul was PURE BS.

The Electoral College was and IS to vote their conscious since they were elected by the people to do EXACTLY that. And of course they have taken ALL of the emphasis out of the process of electing the electoral college so they can guaranteed that they will in fact allocate ALL of their votes to the candidate that "wins the popular vote on the state. They simply highjacked the whole process by creating this illusion that you accept and then are able to deliver on the illusion! That is what RIn Paul was taking advantage of, because he knows all they had to do was get their people in there to vote their conscious (btw I am not a RP supporter), and even that they were able to corrupt their way out of. They literally kicked them out of the convention! Such a blatant use of brute mafia like tactics and it WORKED! Sure it would not have been enough to get RP in, but it shows how desperate they are to keep the illusion alive and avoid any cracks in it, which that would have been a huge crack on the facade of the LIE. And by the way that whole calamity of a stunt, called the conventions, are pure theater and they cost over 100 Million dollars EACH of TAX PAYER MONEY!

And lastly, for your viewing pleasure:



Sorry Ben, obviously we were not able to keep it.

Real democracy could actually be attained with the power of the internet and basic politics in education...
But you are right, in fact, no country in the world is governed by democracy, it's just a term they use to make us shut up and believe we are free.

Originally posted by betheflow
every single one of them kept repeating that the US is a Democracy (read pure democracy)

All that because you don't realize that they are talking about elected officials being democratically elected. Why would it "read pure democracy" when it is common knowledge that the citizens don't vote to pass laws, enact policy or anything of that nature?

So you just recently discovered that the US is not a Democracy? At least you are aware of it now.

Of course not. You don't want that. A pure democracy is Mob Rule. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting for what's for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. The average IQ is 100. Half the population has an IQ lower than that. Are you seriously suggesting the vote of a person with an IQ of 60 is worth the same as someone with an IQ of 130? All you have to do is give them a piece of candy and tell them which button to push. THAT'S why we're in the situation we are today. Elections afre so dumbed down to accommodate the stupid that it is a complete mockery.

Here's a perfect example of "democracy in action.

The US is not nor was it ever a Democracy.

It's a Federal Presidential Constitutional Representative Republic,

This country was founded as a Republic.

Now, it's just a twisted mass of greedy politicians lobbied by SIGs.

Originally posted by theMediator
Real democracy could actually be attained with the power of the internet and basic politics in education...

I agree with you that there are no real representative democracies. Unfortunately I think that the view that a real democracy can be attained via the internet, education etc, is far too optimistic.

I think that the only way we'll ever attain a true democracy is when there can be no secrets. For that to happen no one would be able to lie successfully because everyone had FULL information. Unfortunately the only way we could attain that would be with a hive mind civilisation. I don't know about you guys but that's not something I would like to see.

Even if a hive humanity were desirable, the only way to get that state of affairs would be to first endure an era of totalitarian world government to enable implementation of the hive. We'd just have to keep our fingers crossed that power does NOT corrupt and that no small elite clique subverts the hive as it is rolled out.

In my opinion its not even a republic anymore. The US democratic process and taxation without representation began shortly after the only independent leader ever to make it to Washington. George Washington started the democratic US and the democratic or republic died with him. Its been ran by democrats and republicans every since. Now take you placebo and vote red or blue.

Oh and don't you dare vote for the other guy by voting independent.

Now we have two parties one that wants to rob from the rich and give to the poor and the other wants to feel yah up at the airport and get up close and personal with your business. Its obvious the deception has worked and is irreversible by the fact every dumb sob is gonna go vote for the lesser of two evils just like they do every time the vote. The majority of the forums here at ATS is a prime example of brainwashed morons arguing about their candidates.

If everyone voted for mickey mouse BO or MR would still get the election because its fixed that way.

We're a democracy in that we vote for our leaders and representatives democratically. That's what people are talking about when they refer to the United States as a democracy.

Few people refer to the nation as the 'republic' because we don't talk about the nation in that sense, we talk about our government and how the people govern it.

Originally posted by links234
We're a democracy in that we vote for our leaders and representatives democratically. That's what people are talking about when they refer to the United States as a democracy.

Few people refer to the nation as the 'republic' because we don't talk about the nation in that sense, we talk about our government and how the people govern it.

Few refer to the nation as a republic since, ever since they did away with that pesky "Pledge of Allegiance" thing, you know, that "to the republic for which it stands" part, most people don't KNOW that it's a republic, and specifically NOT a democracy. Since it's well known that democracy, i.e. mob rule, does not work.

Plus the constant media bombardment with the word "democracy" and NEVER the word "republic". Just by accident, of course. No way they are trying to jam the wrong idea into your heads.

Why do some Americans think that a Republic and a Democracy are things that are mutually exclusive?

A Republic is simply a form of Government without a hereditary Head of State. End of. There is no other meaning to the word.

A democracy is simply a form of Government where each citizen has an equal say in the creation of law, either directly or indirectly through elected representatives.

The two can and do exist side by side, just as you can have a Republic that is authoritarian, like Syria for example or you can have a democracy that isn't a Republic, like the UK.

As Slayer pointed out, you also have a Federal element to consider. Again, this isn't an exclusive term, as you could have a Federal republic that wasn't democratic, or a federal system which isn't a republic.

Originally posted by stumason
Why do some Americans think that a Republic and a Democracy are things that are mutually exclusive?

Because they do not understand what the terms mean. As you truthfully said, they are not mutually exclusive

I've always known that the U.S. is not a democracy.

The U.S. is a Republic

A little knowledge of 5th Grade U.S. History goes a looooong way

Originally posted by muse7
I've always known that the U.S. is not a democracy.

The U.S. is a Republic

See above...

Originally posted by muse7
A little knowledge of 5th Grade U.S. History goes a looooong way

Ironic... A little knowledge what the words meant would kill this annual argument on ATS. This is not the first thread on this topic and I doubt it will be the last...

Nope, not a democracy...thank goodness for that!

A Constitutional Republic.

Rule by a government whose powers are limited by law or a formal constitution, and chosen by a vote amongst at least some sections of the populace (Ancient Sparta was in its own terms a republic, though most inhabitants were disenfranchised. The United States is a federal republic). Republics that exclude sections of the populace from participation will typically claim to represent all citizens (by defining people without the vote as "non-citizens").

(Wiki definition)

What we really aspire to be...in a sense...is a Nomocracy...the absolute rule of law. Equally and fairly applied to everyone
Nomocracy

Rule by a government under the sovereignty of rational laws and civic right as opposed to one under theocratic systems of government. In a nomocracy, ultimate and final authority (sovereignty) exists in the law.

(Wiki definition)

I'm afraid most people would be extremely upset if they ever had to live in a "true" democracy. There would be no civil rights as those would have been out voted in the time. There would be no women's suffrage or equal rights as that would also have been over ruled by the "mob" of the time.

It must be a Constitutional Republic with Nomocracy as a backdrop or ideal.

Originally posted by links234
We're a democracy in that we vote for our leaders and representatives democratically. That's what people are talking about when they refer to the United States as a democracy.
.

HA you are given the illusion of democracy when it comes to voting

I dont find it surprising in the least that there are parallels between the US and Rome going on as we speak

Fantastic illustration of the 2 headed snake:

Technically the USA is actually a representative democracy. America is having a federal election right now. It is a two party system where other parties find it difficult to get a voice or a vote.

Is it a flawed and corrupted political system? That is a matter of opinion and certainly it is far from perfect.
Democracy just means you vote.

Maybe it's a form of modern corporate representative democratic republic.

Regardless of how you want to label it there is no freedom in permitting a bunch of your neighbors getting together and deciding how you will live your life.

Democracy is mob rule. A Republic is just condensed mob rule.

Somebody is always deciding for you. There is no freedom in that.