Schizophrenia diagnosed by simple eye test

Originally posted by Ghost375
this story is BS.
Psychologists have a hard time diagnosing schizophrenia, it borders on many other conditions. There are multiple potential symptoms of schizophrenia.

This story is Impossible. I have a degree in psychology, fyi.
I can guarantee it's a flawed study.


edit: They don't even say how many people took part in the study. That right there sends up major red flags.

edit on 2-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Thank you Ghost for finally speaking the truth. I mean we have people on here discussing schizophrenia as it is some true psychic gift. Then they are some talking about the disorder as a split personality. Finally, the most damaging, that a schizophrenic can control their psychotic breaks by shear willpower alone.

Schizophrenia has i believe about 9+ sub types. It is a thought disorder and has to do with the way the individual interprets or preceives his reality. Basically a schizophrenic has a complete break with reality and can no longer tell, not so much what is real and what is not, but more so, what is a dream or fantasy world and what is not.... Medication is an absolute must in managing the disease. This test is ridiculous, like you stated . Problems with eye movement can also result from a closed head injury or traumatic brain injury or another physical malady. To label someone schizophrenic from one simply test could prove to be very damning. How would they determine between schizophrenia and lets say schizo affective disorder?

Wait i know the person with schizo affective will also yawn while failing this eye tracking mess!

Recently Neuro Psychiatrists have begun looking at the idea that all humans have the potential to become schizophrenic, The wiring is there however the disease is in a dormant form so you most likely will not develop the disorder unless the disease is given a catalyst. The catalyst could be a traumatic event, or head injury, or repeated exposure to a very stressful environment, Scientists are not sure. Then the bigger question will become why does A get the disorder and B doesn't. Back on point, schizophrenia is one of the most complex diseases for doctors to understand, it is virtual almost impossible for this study to be correct.

Pax

reply to post by paxnatus


Or you could, I don't know, talk to the person.... the one talking about "green bunnies helicopter pilots rocking eating mating blueberry skyscrapers" might be a bit schitzo.

i'm having some problems myself but i don't hear voices unless i'm drunk so it aint so bad since i don't drink anymore. I like to imagine that thoughts are transported through the higgs field and that schizos can pick that stuff up somehow. 'magine?
This is surprising since i can't think of a way for them to sell this techique in a bottle!

Ah... the bridge between pseudoscience and... "real" science? Something the pharmacological and psycho-fascistic industries have been looking for since time immemorial. Along with the technology will eventually come legislation. And what of the misdiagnosed? They can apply for a "rediagnosis", I'm sure... an index card thrown into a bottomless pit of forgotten victims.

Can't believe half the bollocks I'm reading in this thread...

Just a few points:

Theres a HUGE difference between a Psychologist and a Psychiatrist...for a start a Psychiatrist is a Medical Doctor first and foremost, who has then gone on to specialise in mental health.

Why is that important? Simple. Theres a lot of physical symptomology that can present as a potential mental illness. Hence why any thorough assessment needs to take into account a full physical assessment in order to narrow down the chances that what you're potentially seeing in the person before you doesn't have a far more readily explainable and treatable physical basis.

Where a Psychologist potentially has the edge on a Psychiatrist is that again the Psychiatrist is primarily a medical doctor...as such their perspectives tend to be medical modelled and few seem to factor in the equally - if not more so - important contextual influences such as psycho-social influences, family, upbringing, economic, cultural, spiritual and the various other elements that can impact upon every persons wellbeing and thus wellness.


To be upfront here and declare where I'm coming from;
I've worked in mental health now for over 18 years, principally as a Psychiatric Nurse, then as a Clinical Coordinator of both Acute Inpatient and Community-based MH services.
I currently manage a community MH service where I live. Also a Duly Authorised Officer (DAO). The DAOs are the ones who tend to attend the crisis callouts, do the assessments, and if needs be action the relevant sections of the MH Act to commit someone to a MH Facility for further assessment and/or treatment.
I am also a Senior Nurse Specialist...my speciality: Psychotic Disorders / Schizophrenia.


I need to be very clear here though...the above doesn't guarantee that I know everything about the subject, I certainly don't...it does however guarantee I know a ton more than some of the other rubbish that so often gets posted about psychotic disorders and/or schizophrenia.


So...just to clear some things up:

Schizophrenia has NOTHING to do with Multiple Personalities...thats a whole different kettle of fish, and its a common misinterpretation likely coming from its misrepresentation in films, media etc


Medication is NOT the be-all and end-all option when it comes to assisting/treatment of Schizophrenia.
If it was there'd be far greater efficacy rates from anti-psychotic usage...there isn't.
Also, I personally know numerous people who experience Schizophrenia who have lived full, happy and successful lives for many years now without medication. People who are in positions as Lawyers, one is actually a Clinical Psychologist, another I know is a teacher, many I know are your average Joe and Jane Family Member...working and living right alongside you...heck, I know one guy who is an international airline pilot...chances are if you're a regular traveller between the Pacific, UK and the States you've flown on a plane pilotted by him.

It is actually not at all uncommon to live a full life, with the experience of Schizophrenia, completely unmedicated...despite what Big Pharma and its various fear-mongering merchants would have you believe.
Many people live with Schizophrenia and the various 'symptoms' of it actually quite happily - unmedicated. They aren't your boiler-plate tortured individuals ready to go off on you at the drop of the hat.
Many people utilise other methods such as meditation, such as Voice Dialogue, such as many other therapy-based interventions, mindfulness, CBT/DBT...simple awareness and self-management.
Simple basic power of personal will can be a potent thing.



Testing for Schizophrenia through looking in someones eyes?
Please. Seriously.
If you honestly believe you can read that someone is psychotic by looking into their eyes then you must be the greatest diagnostic person who has ever lived. That would be awesome...you should market your ability and make a fortune!
Sarcasm aside - no. No. For a start the perception that someone experiencing psychosis/schizophrenia is presenting with your stereotypical wide and wild-eyed stare is complete and utter bollocks. Camel sized bollocks.
For sure, when someone is in a full-on florid state of psychotic crisis, then some - SOME - do have that whole stare thing going on...but really, thats something that more happens in movies...don't believe the hype...
Additionally - how do these 'Scientists' factor in the fundamental basics that everyone...everyone...has individual ocular neurological processes, which means every single person has an individual 'look' or 'stare' mental illness or not.
What about cultural/ethnic differences when it comes to eye contact?? For some cultures it is considered extremely rude to make eye-contact, for other cultures it is considered rude not to.

...in short...the assumption that by simply examining a persons gaze you could accurately gauge their mental state? B-O-L-L-O-C-K-S.

Originally posted by paxnatus

Originally posted by Ghost375
this story is BS.
Psychologists have a hard time diagnosing schizophrenia, it borders on many other conditions. There are multiple potential symptoms of schizophrenia.

This story is Impossible. I have a degree in psychology, fyi.
I can guarantee it's a flawed study.


edit: They don't even say how many people took part in the study. That right there sends up major red flags.

edit on 2-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Thank you Ghost for finally speaking the truth. I mean we have people on here discussing schizophrenia as it is some true psychic gift. Then they are some talking about the disorder as a split personality. Finally, the most damaging, that a schizophrenic can control their psychotic breaks by shear willpower alone.

Schizophrenia has i believe about 9+ sub types. It is a thought disorder and has to do with the way the individual interprets or preceives his reality. Basically a schizophrenic has a complete break with reality and can no longer tell, not so much what is real and what is not, but more so, what is a dream or fantasy world and what is not.... Medication is an absolute must in managing the disease. This test is ridiculous, like you stated . Problems with eye movement can also result from a closed head injury or traumatic brain injury or another physical malady. To label someone schizophrenic from one simply test could prove to be very damning. How would they determine between schizophrenia and lets say schizo affective disorder?

Wait i know the person with schizo affective will also yawn while failing this eye tracking mess!

Recently Neuro Psychiatrists have begun looking at the idea that all humans have the potential to become schizophrenic, The wiring is there however the disease is in a dormant form so you most likely will not develop the disorder unless the disease is given a catalyst. The catalyst could be a traumatic event, or head injury, or repeated exposure to a very stressful environment, Scientists are not sure. Then the bigger question will become why does A get the disorder and B doesn't. Back on point, schizophrenia is one of the most complex diseases for doctors to understand, it is virtual almost impossible for this study to be correct.

Pax

Can you please re-post this in English? And after doing so, explain to us why, objectively, "schizophrenia" (as you describe it) ultimately prevents an individual from being in control of themselves in a commonly relevant manner? Because, from what I could salvage from your broken English, it appears you have quite the supposition on your hands!

After all, I could use every last bit of your own stated subjective criteria to describe the average Obama or Romney zealot. Does this make them "schizophrenic"? And I've known unfortunate people labeled as "schizophrenic" who are much more in control of themselves, their finances, and spiritual outlook than the average member of the general public.

You may want to consider, despite the juggernaut of misapplied theorems, rooted in 19th century Eugenics, which fuel your ambitions, that every single thing you think you know, about whatever it is you know, being the little expert you are, is wrong. And that's how you use a comma to great effect. I have a bushel of them I'll sell you for pennies on the dollar.

Originally posted by CptKrunch
And I've known unfortunate people labeled as "schizophrenic" who are much more in control of themselves, their finances, and spiritual outlook than the average member of the general public.

Bingo.
So do I. I know numerous people who have been branded with that label - and thus the millstone stigma that comes with it - who would smoke me in *life* any day of the week.
Who are more together, more with it, more centred and more *functional* than me even on my best day.

...every single thing you think you know, about whatever it is you know ... is wrong.

Bingo again.
Learnt enough to know I don't know nearly enough. Nor will I ever.
Heck...show me a group of *experts* in the same room who can all agree on what 'Schizophrenia' is...and I'd be impressed...perhaps then we're chasing shadows...and missing the real point that perhaps its an individual experience that has individual nuances that can't so readily be stuck in any tidy little box...so perhaps *experts* need to just stop trying to *box* people and prognoses and just connect with the person and provide whatever that person requests/requires...
Wild idea - but maybe *experts* need to realise that the REAL expert is the person living it...

Originally posted by paxnatus

Originally posted by Ghost375
this story is BS.
Psychologists have a hard time diagnosing schizophrenia, it borders on many other conditions. There are multiple potential symptoms of schizophrenia.

This story is Impossible. I have a degree in psychology, fyi.
I can guarantee it's a flawed study.


edit: They don't even say how many people took part in the study. That right there sends up major red flags.

edit on 2-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Thank you Ghost for finally speaking the truth. I mean we have people on here discussing schizophrenia as it is some true psychic gift. Then they are some talking about the disorder as a split personality. Finally, the most damaging, that a schizophrenic can control their psychotic breaks by shear willpower alone.

Schizophrenia has i believe about 9+ sub types. It is a thought disorder and has to do with the way the individual interprets or preceives his reality. Basically a schizophrenic has a complete break with reality and can no longer tell, not so much what is real and what is not, but more so, what is a dream or fantasy world and what is not.... Medication is an absolute must in managing the disease. This test is ridiculous, like you stated . Problems with eye movement can also result from a closed head injury or traumatic brain injury or another physical malady. To label someone schizophrenic from one simply test could prove to be very damning. How would they determine between schizophrenia and lets say schizo affective disorder?

Wait i know the person with schizo affective will also yawn while failing this eye tracking mess!

Recently Neuro Psychiatrists have begun looking at the idea that all humans have the potential to become schizophrenic, The wiring is there however the disease is in a dormant form so you most likely will not develop the disorder unless the disease is given a catalyst. The catalyst could be a traumatic event, or head injury, or repeated exposure to a very stressful environment, Scientists are not sure. Then the bigger question will become why does A get the disorder and B doesn't. Back on point, schizophrenia is one of the most complex diseases for doctors to understand, it is virtual almost impossible for this study to be correct.

Pax

I have paranoid schizophrenia and I've done a lot of research over the years into the subject. I've read a lot about studies into the illness and I have first and experance. UCLA did a study a while back where they studied people with a family history of schizophrenia. At the time the study began the subjects had normal brain images and showed no symtoms of the illness. They were for the most part healthy individuals. The doctors watched them closely and the subjects had MRI's done on a regular basis. For the first time they witnessed the illness start in the brain and take over. They said it started in the back of the brain near the cerabellum and "spread throughout the brain like a wild fire". Schizophrenia causes brain damage. The longer it's left untreated the more damage is done. It's also less likely the person will recover.

Myself I have no family history of metal illness or schizophrenia. Although I have read they found the genes responsible for schizophrenia. Not everybody with the genes goes on to develop the illness.

As someone living with this illness I find it down right insulting when people think it's some kind of psychic gift. I've been to the farthest reaches of insanity and back. Having hallucinations and delusions is no fun. It's practically ruined my life. Everyday I have to take medications keep from getting sick. I'm thankful I live in a time where modern day medicine is able to give me some sort of a normal life. I haven't heard voices or had delusions in 10 years.

The medications I take have some nasty side effects. I don't expect I'm going to live long. After 15 years of taking these meds I'm starting to develop health problems from them. The antipsychotic meds I take block the chemical dopimane in the brain. From long term use of the meds I'm developing Parkinsons like symtoms which is another disorder related to the meds. The meds also cause liver problems and diabetes. I'm only 36 years old. Personally I'd rather deal with the side effects then hallucinations and delusions.

Myself I wouldn't be surprised is it were true that they could diagnose schizophrenia with a eye movement test. Having been around other schizophrenics I noticed we share certain traits. We have similar mannerisms behaviors.

reply to post by alien


Did you read the article and study carefully what was said? Form the article it does not appear as if the method is as simple as peering into the eyes of the person you are examining! I would assume that it involves putting a persons eye level with a lens to measure the stability of thier gaze using a computer model and some tracking software.

Sure enough, just sitting there looking into a persons eyes is more like witchcraft than science, but I very much doubt these things are measured by such a pathetic method.

reply to post by alien

RePLY INTENDED FOR CAPT>CRUNCH or whatever his name is NOT ALIEN!!
In plain English, what the hell are you bitching at me about?? Forgive me if I was over your head or I wasn't watered down enough for you to comprehend!! To be quite honest, I am recovering from surgery for a broken neck and was having a very difficult time sleeping! In other words I had been up all night when I posted.

But lets be clear, I never said one thing about a person not being able to control themselves. Quite honestly what I said was, when a person has a break with reality and becomes psychotic, which would include delusions and hallucinations, it can happen at a moments notice without

One more thing, I find you rude and offensive based on your infantile personal attack in your reply to me specifically. Where do you get off speaking to anyone that way?

If you really did not understand what I was saying or somehow I offended you, I would expect at the very least that you would conduct yourself in a respectful manner. I don't even know you.....
'
I apologize alien this post was not intended for you,

reply to post by dontreally

An interesting example of this from my own experience was when I dealt with hypochondria when I was younger. Ironic to say now, but I used to be deathly afraid of schizophrenia. I recall on some days when my anxiety was so great that EVERY OTHER THING I looked at seemed to bring me to the word schizophrenia. It was unnatural, and frankly it didn't seem normal to come by a word like that so often. I would scroll the internet and I would be 'led', it seemed, to the word. It would 2 am, I'm watching TV, and all of a sudden I pass by the news, leave it there for a second, and a story comes up about schizophrenia! And I also have examples of this with parkisons disease (another fear I used to have) and cancer.

I have that with death. When I start getting into a panic attack about it, it is literally everywhere.

reply to post by alien


Wow, someone in the medical industry that doesn't think that popping a pill or twenty is the way to fix everything. That is not very common these days.

And... according to government workers who are underpaid and overworked, most of the trolls here are "mentally challenged". Lul... seriously, seeing as Freud himself was a coke-head, and most of these people worship that guy, hung up on dicks as he was... well, suffice to say, I'm not buying a damn thing that comes out of this industry. If someone stands to profit from more people being diagnosed as psychologically divergent, I'm apt to toss whatever input they have out the window. Need I bring up the 'cure-all' lobotomy craze?

I admit not reading every post in the thread, but from what I have read, Alien seems to have the most balanced perspective.

Schizophrenia seems to have no less than one dozen root causes. These labels may serve society to the extent that it's a mere convenience. A starting point to signify a cluster of symptoms, from which specific causes and treatments may be honed in on, on a case by case basis.

It seems that the quality of health care someone receives varies from institution to institution, and country to country. That it depends on the heads of the center, and each individual "professional" working with their patients. It seems those who believe they have a grasp of mental illness know the least. It seems those who most often tout their "credentials" are the ones to be most weary of.

The problem often seems to start when a "professional" objectifies a person under the convenient labeling starting point. If someone is judged for a condition, as the condition itself, then there is a break from any potential therapy that could have resulted otherwise. A downward spiral begins, with the professional first breaking meaningful contact with the patient, and the patient breaking it with the professional. More labels are bound to pop up over time from each towards the other. Any kind of real prognosis and therapy is lost.

I think individuals should be treated with decency and respect, especially when they're undergoing extremely stressful situations. These labels often serve as a means to dehumanize the individual. Once this happens, there is no true therapeutic effect to be had. You may be able to pacify the individual through medication, but that will not be a true benefit to society.

In the end, I think what people need is community. They need a common unity between people around them. If someone is experiencing internally, quite differently from another, and reaches out to his fellow man and woman, and is rejected, how could we not reasonably expect this individual to become ill? It's my opinion that the community should provide first, and then the social services if the community fails. I think it's terribly unfortunate that the state seems to be growing, and communities seem to be dying. We would all be wise to think backwards on these things, to times when community was more spirited. Think to what happened, what changes came about, and how we can regrow them in time.

reply to post by moniesisfun


In this day and age, what with the "average Joe" being so disconnected... people who are aware of reality are apt to be labeled as psychologically divergent.

So. the simple eye test is.....If you can see than you have schizophrenia? Everyone needs to line up and get their meds.

Originally posted by SymbolicLogic
reply to post by paxnatus

 

Or you could, I don't know, talk to the person.... the one talking about "green bunnies helicopter pilots rocking eating mating blueberry skyscrapers" might be a bit schitzo.

You know you are the one talking about that ....don't you? Is this information from personal experience

reply to post by SymbolicLogic


Five years ago, yes.

2012? Not so much.

I guess it depends on your particular micro-communities you're interacting with.

If I were to say that the economy is a sham, the FED is a parasite, and society is defunct in 2007 amongst the general public, I would be ostracized. Here at the end of 2012? People are likely to say, "duh" !!

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by truthermantwo

 

And hows your vision?

i have had instances where suddenly my sight is all jumbled up... like when a movie projector film sequence gets out-of-synch all sputtering and jerky so you can see the individual frames out of the normal flow


like when a bird is gliding past me... it sometimes sputters/jerks/ but eventually returns to a smooth gliding path
pelicans gliding the beach air currents is pretty common for me to see that happen, it was freaky a long-long time ago, but i take that visual oddity in stride





hey alien... thanks for the enlightenment for the crowd, both members and the nonmembers that lurk at ATS

Medication is NOT the be-all and end-all option when it comes to assisting/treatment of Schizophrenia.
If it was there'd be far greater efficacy rates from anti-psychotic usage...there isn't.
Also, I personally know numerous people who experience Schizophrenia who have lived full, happy and successful lives for many years now without medication. People who are in positions as Lawyers, one is actually a Clinical Psychologist, another I know is a teacher, many I know are your average Joe and Jane Family Member...working and living right alongside you...heck, I know one guy who is an international airline pilot...chances are if you're a regular traveller between the Pacific, UK and the States you've flown on a plane pilotted by him.

It is actually not at all uncommon to live a full life, with the experience of Schizophrenia, completely unmedicated...despite what Big Pharma and its various fear-mongering merchants would have you believe.
Many people live with Schizophrenia and the various 'symptoms' of it actually quite happily - unmedicated. They aren't your boiler-plate tortured individuals ready to go off on you at the drop of the hat.
Many people utilise other methods such as meditation, such as Voice Dialogue, such as many other therapy-based interventions, mindfulness, CBT/DBT...simple awareness and self-management.
Simple basic power of personal will can be a potent thing. [...]

i tried to tell the Doctors up in the CXolumbia Detox centers just that...but i was loaded up with thorazine (and still played basketball with the youth there) and later on Haldol (for whatever reason that was for i have no idea...perhaps having a patient 'under maintanence' for 6 months on what was only a 28 day program?)

Originally posted by truthermantwo
reply to post by dontreally

 

I just can't believe what i perceive is because my brain is causing it. I mean i can only really hold one to several words at a time in my mind, so how does what sounds like an outside observer (voices) come up with things to say without my mind first thinking it up? It doesn't make sense. My thinking is too many people who don't have it, cannot conceive or perceive of the way it is and their flight to some logical thinking based on their own understanding makes the people think something like "well that person is sane, let's trust his opinion/diagnosis" instead of taking it straight from a person suffering these things.

My vision is 20/20 but i've seen UFO's, a demon or monster like creature, lights flashing and heard things you wouldn't want to even think about being real..because im sorry to say, whatever causes this, knew how to hide it to create humanity into this today. Think about it, some people considered voices to be Gods, others developed remedies to get rid of them. Now we tell people to take their tardiv disconesia meds and suffer them quietly. Our society is totally evil towards voice hearers.

Well, now you know that a person exposed to "conditions" will or may manifest what looks like schizophrenia. A mind wrestling with reality. Finding a place, some space for conditions that run contrary to hopes and conceptions or even hard held notions of what reality was supposed to be. Its very hard to bring real things into a dream world....for those that are introduced to the reality of certain things. Like when a combat soilder understands in a moment that this isnt a freakin movie.