The Instructional Design of Truth - Denying Ignore(ance). Stop Ignoring Truth

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

We each have the opportunity reflect the light by choice. Words reveal the thoughts. I try to keep wisdom and truth close by my side.

Hi EWR, By no means is this an insult, but I must say that when you claim to keep wisdom and truth close by, I hear, bible and faith. There is no truth in either of them. One is fiction, the other, a hope for something that you wouldn't want if just once you put your mind to it.

I would go further, but you are so far lost to logic that there's no point. That said, have a good night.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

We each have the opportunity reflect the light by choice. Words reveal the thoughts. I try to keep wisdom and truth close by my side.

Hi EWR, By no means is this an insult, but I must say that when you claim to keep wisdom and truth close by, I hear, bible and faith. There is no truth in either of them. One is fiction, the other, a hope for something that you wouldn't want if just once you put your mind to it.

I would go further, but you are so far lost to logic that there's no point. That said, have a good night.

Job 26.

14 And these are but the outer fringe of his works;
how faint the whisper we hear of him!
Who then can understand the thunder of his power?

Astonishing that it can be missed.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

9. Be faithful to the light ye have, till a
higher light is given to you. Seek more
light, and ye shall have abundantly;
rest not, till ye find.

does that refer to the law? Torah? then what higher light? A new holy book? Quran?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Law is not needed when the Law of
One is followed.
Galatians 3
23 Before the coming of this faith, we
were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to
come would be revealed. 24 So the
law was our guardian until Christ came
that we might be justified by faith. 25
Now that this faith has come, we are
no longer under a guardian. 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all
children of God through faith, 27 for
all of you who were baptized into
Christ have clothed yourselves with
Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor
Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all
one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to
Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed,
and heirs according to the promise.

How convinient of paul!! Forget the law, Forget what Jesus pbuh taught and told to do, just believe what i say and do nothing and you will be saved!!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You are talking without talking. I can use all manner of verbs, nouns and adjectives, make a complete sentence, construct a full paragraph out of those complete sentences... and still not say a damn thing. Just like you.

edit on 1-11-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

that was my complain too! thanks for voicing it. Btw i like the quote in your signature a lot.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

9. Be faithful to the light ye have, till a
higher light is given to you. Seek more
light, and ye shall have abundantly;
rest not, till ye find.

does that refer to the law? Torah? then what higher light? A new holy book? Quran?

It refers to the nature of symbol and the axioms of knowledge. Truth is always followed by higher truth that encompasses the lower divisions. I am almost to the point that I have done a thread on nearly every aspect of my own understanding. Here is the thread on this topic: LINK Even though I have a thread for all that came before, I continue to expand my awareness and frame of reference. New understanding will follow. If you go back to my early threads as Superiored, you will hear truth, yet not the quality that is presented lately. Truth moves to unity as the progression continues from lower to higher degrees.

Also, this very thread on instructional design answers the question. The key to this is knowing that truth is by degree. It's like temperature on a scale. Higher truth unifies lower. If two friends--a train engineer and a friend sitting on a porch--argue that the train whistle changes pitch, who is right? The friend hears it change as the train passes by but the engineer hears it stay steady as he drives the train. Both are correct according to a lower truth. When the Doppler Effect is understood, the the higher truth has arrived.

If you travel 10 miles south, 10 miles East and 10 miles north, how can you arrive at the same location you started? If you are using euclidean geometry, you can't. A triangle has 180 degrees and you have not completed the path back to the beginning. If you are using non-euclidean geometry and your starting point is the pole of the Earth, you can accomplish this with a triangle greater than 180 degrees. It's all in the perspective and frame of reference you use.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Law is not needed when the Law of
One is followed.
Galatians 3
23 Before the coming of this faith, we
were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to
come would be revealed. 24 So the
law was our guardian until Christ came
that we might be justified by faith. 25
Now that this faith has come, we are
no longer under a guardian. 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all
children of God through faith, 27 for
all of you who were baptized into
Christ have clothed yourselves with
Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor
Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all
one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to
Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed,
and heirs according to the promise.

How convinient of paul!! Forget the law, Forget what Jesus pbuh taught and told to do, just believe what i say and do nothing and you will be saved!!

Not the case. Why is the law necessary as a guardian? If I steal something from you, a law is needed to govern the situation. If I suddenly discover love and give the stolen goods back, the debt is replaced and I will no longer steal. Love fulfills the law by negating the need for it. You cannot earn your way to heaven or you would be the one boasting and not God. A good Muslim can keep the law as diligently as they can but still be filthy rags in the sight of God. Christ is the intermediary to this connecting point between matter and spirit. Love is what Christ demonstrates by his name and we must take the name (Character) or we take the name in vain. The one thing the Muslim world lacks is loving enemies. Without love, we are still thieves taking from God. Family is the holy triangle of Father, Son and Mother. A break in the chain is sickness. Issac and Ishmael must love each other or Christ will not reveal Himself by name to either. Both are blind. Christians have already opened this door with love and are hated by both brothers.

God is love and hate cannot dispel hate. Only love dispels hate. This is why the debt that hate leaves behind is still being paid by the brothers. Christ pays the debt by fulfilling the law for us and this single switch that needs to be flipped heals the heart.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


so the perspective of atheist, christians, muslims and even other religions are lower truths?
Then there must be a higher truth than Jesus pbuh?
Or the philosophy fails and theology starts at that point??

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

so the perspective of atheist, christians, muslims and even other religions are lower truths?
Then there must be a higher truth than Jesus pbuh?
Or the philosophy fails and theology starts at that point??

And you can't answer this? God is the answer. Unity is what descends into multiplicity so the multiple can then rise back to unity. Jesus is this:

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

God has a Son and He is the first born of all creation. I have nature on my side. A new one always comes from two. Sperm and egg, male and female, sun and moon, right and left and so on. The Son is the seed that passes to the next generation. Father is God and Son is that seed. Spirit is what clothes the Son. If you don't believe me, simply consult the roots and seeds in the Hebrew language, early Arab language of Abraham (Your Father) if you are a Muslim or a Jewish brother.

Higher Truth Starts at the Beginning

Why do I say that higher truth starts at the beginning by showing you that beginning? Because the beginning and the end are the same as one ends and the other restarts. The beginning has been here all along and never changes. God is Word and Word does not change. It merely expresses to consciousness and we are all cut from the same loaf of consciousness that is God. Jesus is the Son and we are the expression of the Son.

If I can express a higher truth by Christianity and embracing the messenger of this truth, what should that say to you on a lower plane with Islam? Is love associated with peace and understanding? Is ignorance associated with the downward spiral of pride, hatred and death? Answer honestly and you will know the true path of faith.

Information has entropy and because of this, bits are lost over time. This does not imply that we cannot find them again. Just look and stop ignoring what you see. Only ignorance can ignore.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Not the case. Why is the law necessary
as a guardian? If I steal something
from you, a law is needed to govern
the situation. If I suddenly discover
love and give the stolen goods back,
the debt is replaced and I will no longer steal. Love fulfills the law by
negating the need for it. You cannot
earn your way to heaven or you
would be the one boasting and not
God. A good Muslim can keep the law
as diligently as they can but still be filthy rags in the sight of God. Christ is
the intermediary to this connecting
point between matter and spirit. Love
is what Christ demonstrates by his
name and we must take the name
(Character) or we take the name in vain. The one thing the Muslim world
lacks is loving enemies. Without love,
we are still thieves taking from God.
Family is the holy triangle of Father,
Son and Mother. A break in the chain is
sickness. Issac and Ishmael must love each other or Christ will not reveal
Himself by name to either. Both are
blind. Christians have already opened
this door with love and are hated by
both brothers.
God is love and hate cannot dispel hate. Only love dispels hate. This is
why the debt that hate leaves behind
is still being paid by the brothers.
Christ pays the debt by fulfilling the
law for us and this single switch that
needs to be flipped heals the heart.

thats christian theology and there is a difference between theology and truth. All truth are true, but not all theologies.
Now God sends his message to people through prophets. And they have divine authority to say what God commands. Others however dont enjoy that privilege but obviously many claim it and many among them needs to be institutionalised.
If a theology gives others that authority and claims they are genuine according to the same theology that they made up in the first place. Its a self justifying circle and no matter how much one runs around it, he wouldnt make sense or prove it true athought get dizzy a lot!!

reply to post by logical7

thats christian theology and there is a difference between theology and truth. All truth are true, but not all theologies.
Now God sends his message to people through prophets. And they have divine authority to say what God commands. Others however dont enjoy that privilege but obviously many claim it and many among them needs to be institutionalised.
If a theology gives others that authority and claims they are genuine according to the same theology that they made up in the first place. Its a self justifying circle and no matter how much one runs around it, he wouldnt make sense or prove it true athought get dizzy a lot!!

Theology is the box we hold and the map of the territory. It is our frame of reference and location on the degrees from the top. Your messenger says this:

Matthew 7:12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

You may ignore this truth and simply say that the Bible has been changed. This is the Islamic cop-out when confronted by Jesus actual words. I simply show you the alternative.

Aleister Crowley

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

We can't have it both ways. We can't do unto Jews and Christians as WE will and not as God's will. What is God's will do you suppose?

What I am saying in all of my threads is this: Taking makes you a thief. Giving and Receiving makes you a joy in the eyes of God. What did Jesus say?

You are not against me because I lack juxtaposition beside God. You are biased against me by ignoring the truth. We should both seek the light of truth together. This is what love does. It honors the other and seeks to rise up to and never back down toward ignorance. I refuse to sink.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

And you can't answer this? God is the
answer. Unity is what descends into
multiplicity so the multiple can then
rise back to unity.

that means Unity or Oneness of God "Tawheed" is a higher truth than multiplicity or trinity! Glad to know that. And so Islam is touching higher truth and waiting for christianity to catch up.

Jesus is this:
1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16
For in him all things were created:
things in heaven and on earth, visible
and invisible, whether thrones or
powers or rulers or authorities; all
things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things,
and in him all things hold together.
God has a Son and He is the first born
of all creation.

A man who never met Jesus pbuh is going to tell me who he was?
Just look at the verses, they seep of an evolving theology wanting to raise Jesus pbuh to the level of God. In short a theology not approved by Jesus pbuh.

I have nature on my
side. A new one always comes from
two. Sperm and egg, male and female, sun and moon, right and left and so
on. The Son is the seed that passes to
the next generation. Father is God and
Son is that seed. Spirit is what clothes
the Son.

living beings reproduce or else they would get extinct. They are not immortal or eternal you see.
God having a seed, a son, means God would die? And then son would get the Kingdom or God would take retirement and give office to son?

If I can express a higher truth by
Christianity and embracing the
messenger of this truth, what should
that say to you on a lower plane with
Islam?

higher truth is always simpler and more general and universal. It doesnt require long explanation or special custom made theology.

Information has entropy and because
of this, bits are lost over time. This does not imply that we cannot find
them again.

very true!! Thats why God reveals the truth again to make up for the lost pieces, bring back people on the right path.

reply to post by logical7

that means Unity or Oneness of God "Tawheed" is a higher truth than multiplicity or trinity! Glad to know that. And so Islam is touching higher truth and waiting for christianity to catch up.

Not quite. God is way ahead of you as my distal phalanges are pushing words quicker than either of us can see where He's going.

Are you the Hunted or the Hunter?

Answer the question and you know which one God juxtaposes beside Himself. The one plowing and tending the vineyard is the answer.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Theology is the box we hold and the
map of the territory. It is our frame of
reference and location on the degrees
from the top. Your messenger says
this:
Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what
you would have them do to you, for
this sums up the Law and the
Prophets.
You may ignore this truth and simply
say that the Bible has been changed. This is the Islamic cop-out when
confronted by Jesus actual words. I
simply show you the alternative.
Aleister Crowley
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole
of the Law." We can't have it both ways. We can't
do unto Jews and Christians as WE will
and not as God's will. What is God's will
do you suppose?
What I am saying in all of my threads is
this: Taking makes you a thief. Giving and Receiving makes you a joy in the
eyes of God. What did Jesus say?
You are not against me because I lack
juxtaposition beside God. You are
biased against me by ignoring the
truth. We should both seek the light of truth together. This is what love does.
It honors the other and seeks to rise
up to and never back down toward
ignorance. I refuse to sink.

what you say is a bit confusing and a lot play of words.
I actually believe and love the law, "do to others as you want to be done to you"
i dont ignore the truth and i am not biased to you.
I am just biased to self justifying philosophy that refuses to see any other point of view.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by logical7

 

that means Unity or Oneness of God "Tawheed" is a higher truth than multiplicity or trinity! Glad to know that. And so Islam is touching higher truth and waiting for christianity to catch up.

Not quite. God is way ahead of you as my distal phalanges are pushing words quicker than either of us can see where He's going.

Are you the Hunted or the Hunter?

Answer the question and you know which one God juxtaposes beside Himself. The one plowing and tending the vineyard is the answer.

farming and hunting are just two ways to fulfil the needs.
One is not better than the other. God provides in many ways. making one above another to make it fit a philosophy is smart but just an opinion in the end.

reply to post by logical7

what you say is a bit confusing and a lot play of words.
I actually believe and love the law, "do to others as you want to be done to you"
i dont ignore the truth and i am not biased to you.
I am just biased to self justifying philosophy that refuses to see any other point of view.

The point you are arguing is the point of the OP. Go back and read it. My thread topic states that there are many ways leading to Christ, but not to God. God has one pathway and the message from the messenger is clearly written. The Quran is the judgment document against the unbeliever. In this case, the unbeliever is anyone who does not take the name of the messenger. The name is the character of the name.

Love is the pathway to God, yet we need to confess the name.

Romans 10

10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

reply to post by logical7

farming and hunting are just two ways to fulfil the needs.
One is not better than the other. God provides in many ways. making one above another to make it fit a philosophy is smart but just an opinion in the end.

It does not conform to my philosophy. My philosophy confirms to it.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Souls don't need to be "saved" they need to be understood.

It is pure light giving off it's brilliant radiance, it loves to GIVE but sometimes the mind can et tangled up in thought and try to control, absorb , and take take take....

reply to post by EnochWasRight


what i want to make you see is your philosophy is completely separate and you just sprinkle Jesus's name or christianity to validate them by you philosophy and if thats not enough then you also quote paul to prove what paul said is true!!!
And if even that is too complicated for you to get, simply put you want to prove your theology as right, you quote the book from where you learnt that theology.
Do you see the circle? Its not a spiral upwards, its a circle.
I wouldnt quote Quran to you and if i do, you would just disregard it, then why you quote me paul?? And expect me to agree.
"do to others as you want to be done to you"
be consistent, either no scriptures or respect both scriptures. But as we wouldnt be arguing if you agreed about Quran as divine Word of God, so we are left with one choice.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

what i want to make you see is your philosophy is completely separate and you just sprinkle Jesus's name or christianity to validate them by you philosophy and if thats not enough then you also quote paul to prove what paul said is true!!!
And if even that is too complicated for you to get, simply put you want to prove your theology as right, you quote the book from where you learnt that theology.
Do you see the circle? Its not a spiral upwards, its a circle.
I wouldnt quote Quran to you and if i do, you would just disregard it, then why you quote me paul?? And expect me to agree.
"do to others as you want to be done to you"
be consistent, either no scriptures or respect both scriptures. But as we wouldnt be arguing if you agreed about Quran as divine Word of God, so we are left with one choice.

edit on 3-11-2012 by logical7 because: (no reason given)

My words here are backed by my threads, the link in my signature and my posts. I am an open book and you are welcome to share you own truth by context. Don't expect me to lower mine and I fully expect you may not budge to a higher truth. This was the point of the thread and the topic of the OP. Truth is by degree. What does the text in the OP state on this understanding?

6. So it is with Truth. I am the Truth and the Way and the Life, and have given to you the Truth I have received from above. And that which is seen and received by one, is not seen and received by another. That which appeareth true to some, seemeth not true to others. They who are in the valley see not as they who are on the hill top.
7. But to each, it is the Truth as the one mind seeth it, and for that time, till a higher Truth shall be revealed unto the same: and to the soul which receiveth higher light, shall be given more light. Wherefore condemn not others, that ye be not condemned.
8. As ye keep the holy Law of Love, which I have given unto you, so shall the Truth be revealed more and more unto you, and the Spirit of Truth which cometh from above shall guide you, albeit through many wanderings, into all Truth, even as the fiery cloud guided the children of Israel through the wilderness.
9. Be faithful to the light ye have, till a higher light is given to you. Seek more light, and ye shall have abundantly; rest not, till ye find.
10. God giveth you all Truth, as a ladder with many steps, for the salvation and perfection of the soul, and the truth which seemeth to day, ye will abandon for the higher truth of the morrow. Press ye unto Perfection.
11. Whoso keepeth the holy Law which I have given, the same shall save their souls, however differently they may see the truths which I have given.

What is that law?

12. Many shall say unto me, Lord, Lord, we have been zealous for thy Truth. But I shall say unto them, Nay, but, that others may see as ye see, and none other truth beside. Faith without charity is dead. Love is the fulfilling of the Law.