Nanny Accused of Stabbing Dead 2 New York City Children

Well I think this sad,sad, story may even have a sadder ending if that is possible.

If I were an investigator, (and again I really don't mean to be in any way insensitive to such a tragic event) I would have to ask (and I'm sure they probably are) why might the nanny start stabbing herself right as the mom entered the bathroom rather than turning and attacking the mom???

Something about the details being shared about this tragic event leaves me with more questions than answers...

After reading the following article in the 26 October 2012 Daily Mail (which does a good job in compiling details reported in local NYC publications and passing it off as their own) I am really beginning to question this case:
www.dailym... ail.co.uk/news/article-2223693/Krim-murder-Yoselyn-Ortega-treated-like-family-grandmother-Karen-Krim-said.html

From the above article, here are some of the things that strike me as odd:

She entered the three-bedroom, $10,000-a-month prewar apartment at West 75th Street but found it dark, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. She returned to the lobby to ask the doorman if he had seen the children and, when he said they had not left, she returned to the home and looked through each room. She finally switched on the bathroom lights and discovered the horrifying scene.

As a person who lives in a major city in a upscale building with a wonderful staff of doormen who know all the residents, I don't understand why the mother would not do a cursory walk around her condo unit but instead would choose to go back downstairs and ask the doorman before looking around her own home.

I also wonder how many calls placed or texts sent to the nanny or their home phone line from the mother's mobile.

Mrs Krim also found her two children in the bathtub with stab wounds covering their bodies, and then tried to stop the nanny's neck from bleeding with a towel, according to the Post.

I am not a parent but cannot imagine a mother tending to the nanny's injuries before instinctually focusing on her own children.

Rima Starr, 63, said: 'I heard blood curdling screams and I went down to the lobby and there was the mother screaming blood, hunched over the three year old and swaying with the three year old. 'At time she was screaming things like: 'I'll never speak to her again', repeating that over and over again, then 'it's all right, you'll be all right, you'll be alright' to the child. 'Then she would get waves of the reality of what just happened an then she'd go into just plain bloodcurdling screams with her arms flailing out to the sides.'

The mother screams 'I'll never speak to her again'; assuming that she is referring to the nanny, those words just strike me as the most bizarre thing to say.

One neighbour revealed the superintendent of the apartment block went into the apartment and questioned Ortega, demanding: 'So you cut her throat? So you stabbed her in the neck?'

I read the words of the building superintendent and feel he might have been saying this to the mother, not the nanny.

I'd be thrilled if anyone else might share their feelings; am I alone at finding this curious?

Well again, I'll reply and offer my 2 cents, the first problem I see is that--- as most everyone must know-- the accuracy of the evaluation of any event as told by the media, is largely based upon the accuracy of the details provided by the media, barring any other sources. Watching the constant changes, and difference in details concerning different sources, of these reported stories by MSM does little to convince me that they are accurate enough at any given time to be considered 100% ( or even remotely close to) reliable.

But at the same time, as someone here mentioned earlier, watching them change, is valuable in it's own right, it provides IMo, a very valuable extra source of info. Every once in awhile too I actually get the feeling, in many of these stories, the herd is simply watching a hollywood/etc. scripted psy-op to get it to move in a pre-arranged direction...Hmmm............................................

But who knows. All I can say at this point is the story, as it's still being told, doesn't make any sense to me, perhaps it will in the end. I have an idea or two what really did happen, and how it played out, but at this point don't want to rush to conclusions based on flimsy evidence. A really tragic tale though it appears to me.

reply to post by NickDC202


Nick said-"I read the words of the building superintendent and feel he might have been saying this to the mother, not the nanny."

I had that same thought Nick.

Perhaps an outside chance too, but I had wondered if some scenario such as the nanny wasn't paying attention and let the kids drown in the tub, (I'll never speak to her again?) might have happened and when the mom came home and found them dead she flew into a rage and stabbed the nanny and then the kids (already dead?) to cover it up. This of course would be readily apparent in an autopsy, and not possible if as one news source said they were 'both" ? breathing when found, Might help explain alledged blood in the kitchen too. Can't imagine the nanny hiding in the dark in the bathroom with the lights off, and when found starts stabbing her own throat???, instead of stabbing the mom, if she was possibly as 'deranged' as some reports claim. Maybe too the nanny was having an affair with the husband, who knows, could explain alot too. Truly a bizarre tale. Just more speculation at this point though.

Originally posted by Tecumte
reply to post by NickDC202

 

Nick said-"I read the words of the building superintendent and feel he might have been saying this to the mother, not the nanny."

I had that same thought Nick.

Perhaps an outside chance too, but I had wondered if some scenario such as the nanny wasn't paying attention and let the kids drown in the tub, (I'll never speak to her again?) might have happened and when the mom came home and found them dead she flew into a rage and stabbed the nanny and then the kids (already dead?) to cover it up. This of course would be readily apparent in an autopsy, and not possible if as one news source said they were 'both" ? breathing when found, Might help explain alledged blood in the kitchen too. Can't imagine the nanny hiding in the dark in the bathroom with the lights off, and when found starts stabbing her own throat???, instead of stabbing the mom, if she was possibly as 'deranged' as some reports claim. Maybe too the nanny was having an affair with the husband, who knows, could explain alot too. Truly a bizarre tale. Just more speculation at this point though.

I agree that this is very psy-opy kind of a story.
Oh the irony, I suppose, that she comes home from swimming lessons for one child, to find the 6 year old and the boy who's age I am not clear on, drowned in the bathtub?

It doesn't help the father is a digital media head formerly of Bloomberg and Yahoo, (the absolute kings of inventing the fake news story), lately as of earlier this year plying his trade with CNBC.

Oy.

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter

Originally posted by Tecumte
reply to post by NickDC202

 

Nick said-"I read the words of the building superintendent and feel he might have been saying this to the mother, not the nanny."

I had that same thought Nick.

Perhaps an outside chance too, but I had wondered if some scenario such as the nanny wasn't paying attention and let the kids drown in the tub, (I'll never speak to her again?) might have happened and when the mom came home and found them dead she flew into a rage and stabbed the nanny and then the kids (already dead?) to cover it up. This of course would be readily apparent in an autopsy, and not possible if as one news source said they were 'both" ? breathing when found, Might help explain alledged blood in the kitchen too. Can't imagine the nanny hiding in the dark in the bathroom with the lights off, and when found starts stabbing her own throat???, instead of stabbing the mom, if she was possibly as 'deranged' as some reports claim. Maybe too the nanny was having an affair with the husband, who knows, could explain alot too. Truly a bizarre tale. Just more speculation at this point though.

I agree that this is very psy-opy kind of a story.
Oh the irony, I suppose, that she comes home from swimming lessons for one child, to find the 6 year old and the boy who's age I am not clear on, drowned in the bathtub?

It doesn't help the father is a digital media head formerly of Bloomberg and Yahoo, (the absolute kings of inventing the fake news story), lately as of earlier this year plying his trade with CNBC.

Oy.

Sure. A high profile, potentially very stressed?, possibly overmedicated ??? (not saying so, but when I looked in the moms eyes in her older news pic holding the kids, well) mom, who comes home and possibly finds even one child, the very youngest drowned in the tub, snaps from it all, I have to ask what kind of response might be plausable?

Definately not blaming the mom at this point (would be grossly unfair and insensitive at this point), just asking the questions, but too who could blame the nanny (as a few ATS commenters seemed to have already done) as well at this point on such flimsy and convoluted news info.

Another very odd and strange thing which caught my eye was the glowing posts by mom of the kids only shortly??/before their demise. Does indeed seem very 'psy-opy' as you say and well too with the father's 'media magic' background makes one wonder if he might have had some role, even though the timing concerning him doesn't seem to fit.(yet)

Originally posted by Tecumte

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter

Originally posted by Tecumte
reply to post by NickDC202

 

Nick said-"I read the words of the building superintendent and feel he might have been saying this to the mother, not the nanny."

I had that same thought Nick.

Perhaps an outside chance too, but I had wondered if some scenario such as the nanny wasn't paying attention and let the kids drown in the tub, (I'll never speak to her again?) might have happened and when the mom came home and found them dead she flew into a rage and stabbed the nanny and then the kids (already dead?) to cover it up. This of course would be readily apparent in an autopsy, and not possible if as one news source said they were 'both" ? breathing when found, Might help explain alledged blood in the kitchen too. Can't imagine the nanny hiding in the dark in the bathroom with the lights off, and when found starts stabbing her own throat???, instead of stabbing the mom, if she was possibly as 'deranged' as some reports claim. Maybe too the nanny was having an affair with the husband, who knows, could explain alot too. Truly a bizarre tale. Just more speculation at this point though.

I agree that this is very psy-opy kind of a story.
Oh the irony, I suppose, that she comes home from swimming lessons for one child, to find the 6 year old and the boy who's age I am not clear on, drowned in the bathtub?

It doesn't help the father is a digital media head formerly of Bloomberg and Yahoo, (the absolute kings of inventing the fake news story), lately as of earlier this year plying his trade with CNBC.

Oy.

Sure. A high profile, potentially very stressed?, possibly overmedicated ??? (not saying so, but when I looked in the moms eyes in her older news pic holding the kids, well) mom, who comes home and possibly finds even one child, the very youngest drowned in the tub, snaps from it all, I have to ask what kind of response might be plausable?

Definately not blaming the mom at this point (would be grossly unfair and insensitive at this point), just asking the questions, but too who could blame the nanny (as a few ATS commenters seemed to have already done) as well at this point on such flimsy and convoluted news info.

Another very odd and strange thing which caught my eye was the glowing posts by mom of the kids only shortly??/before their demise. Does indeed seem very 'psy-opy' as you say and well too with the father's 'media magic' background makes one wonder if he might have had some role, even though the timing concerning him doesn't seem to fit.(yet)

Here's the conflicting stories in the media.

Nanny found next to kids unconscious in the bathroom.
Nanny found by Mom as she proceeds to cut her own throat.
Nanny found in the kitchen with a knife.

What? Is this Clue or somethig?

Mom arrives to darkened apartment and goes downstairs to talk to a doorman.
Mom arrives home and goes to the bathroom discovers kids dead of stab wounds.
(Why wouldn't she go to the kitchen first? Or kid's room?
Why the kid's bathroom?

Neighbor sees nanny and kids in an elevator less than an hour prior said they were fine.
Neighbors hear man shouting. Who was he?
Who was there besides the Mom?

Mom was a pediatrician. Then what mom who should know better writes a blog about every move their kid makes and posts it on her husband's former website he developed, "Livejournal".
He sold it to the Russians, or so I read.

Really weird story that no part of it rings true.

Originally posted by Tecumte
reply to post by NickDC202

 

Nick said-"I read the words of the building superintendent and feel he might have been saying this to the mother, not the nanny."

I had that same thought Nick.

Perhaps an outside chance too, but I had wondered if some scenario such as the nanny wasn't paying attention and let the kids drown in the tub, (I'll never speak to her again?) might have happened and when the mom came home and found them dead she flew into a rage and stabbed the nanny and then the kids (already dead?) to cover it up. This of course would be readily apparent in an autopsy, and not possible if as one news source said they were 'both" ? breathing when found, Might help explain alledged blood in the kitchen too. Can't imagine the nanny hiding in the dark in the bathroom with the lights off, and when found starts stabbing her own throat???, instead of stabbing the mom, if she was possibly as 'deranged' as some reports claim. Maybe too the nanny was having an affair with the husband, who knows, could explain alot too. Truly a bizarre tale. Just more speculation at this point though.

Tecumte, thanks for your thoughtful feedback.

I think you raise a lot of really interesting scenarios; if the story continues to be the mom went to the apartment didn't bother to do a quick walkthrough to see if they were still home but went downstairs to ask the doorman if they had left and only then went back upstairs to search the apartment then I will continue to be unconvinced of the nanny's guilt.

As a native New Yorker, I think it is important to highlight that the nanny, who is a citizen of this country, comes from a community and lives in a community whose populations has a higher rate of undocumented workers/illegal immigrants than those with different origins. I only highlight this to call into question the manner in which the police statements via leaks and media's reporting focused on the nanny's behaviors, issues, mental health should not be viewed as reality because the leaks via police statements to drive the media machine potentially could be from individuals who feel that they must tell the police/media what they want to hear as to not rock the boat to put their own or their loved one's immigration status in jeopardy or at least put under the microscope.

I don't know exactly what happened in that apartment but I do know that the public has convicted the nanny in their minds without understanding the scenarios being reported and using their own common sense to see that at this point there are more questions than answers and no real evidence of the nanny's guilt or the mother's guilt.

Curiously, with the exception of the Louise Woodward case (British nanny, shaking baby case) can anyone recall a modern crime in which a nanny has murdered the children she cares for? On the flip side, we more frequently hear about a mother murdering her children and making a poor attempt to cover it up. I only highlight this to urge people to proceed with caution before convicting the nanny in your own mind while there are so many curiosities about this case.

reply to post by NickDC202


I agree Nick, I found it so odd, as I mentioned in one of my first posts on this thread, that the media seemed to be trying to immediately tie this in with 'illegals' without one shred of real evidence. An agenda?

As I said, when I went to the first NY news site, I wasn't even allowed to sign up and post a comment, and all of the comments there seemd very scripted to me, parrots echoing other parrots, not ONE comment even questioned what they were being told by the "News" as to the accuracy of what seemed to me an unbelievable scenario full of contradictions.

I personally. like many others nowdays I guess, realize at the top, the MSM is simply a mouthpiece for whatever memes those who wish to push and pull the herd and drive them in a specific direction wish to plant in those minds. I guess I have become so sceptical now that I accept virtuually nothing I hear from any media source mainstream or person in a postion of 'authority' or even 'alternative" news (as this has also been partially hijacked) until I see it with my own two eyes or have enough actual facts to weigh it on my own.

For all we know, in reality, I can't even say for sure anyone actually died, I wasn't there. In this crazy world of smoke and mirrors, trust is almost non-existant, I sometimes wonder if the media's goal is this very thing. One last thing, could this by slim chance be to try and create distrust of a politcal nature during a close election??? So very hard to tell anything with any certainty anymore.

Originally posted by Tecumte
reply to post by NickDC202

 

I personally. like many others nowdays I guess, realize at the top, the MSM is simply a mouthpiece for whatever memes those who wish to push and pull the herd and drive them in a specific direction wish to plant in those minds. I guess I have become so sceptical now that I accept virtuually nothing I hear from any media source mainstream or person in a postion of 'authority' or even 'alternative" news (as this has also been partially hijacked) until I see it with my own two eyes or have enough actual facts to weigh it on my own.

For all we know, in reality, I can't even say for sure anyone actually died, I wasn't there. In this crazy world of smoke and mirrors, trust is almost non-existant, I sometimes wonder if the media's goal is this very thing. One last thing, could this by slim chance be to try and create distrust of a politcal nature during a close election??? So very hard to tell anything with any certainty anymore.

I couldn't agree more about the MSM and I think my major revelation about the MSMs unwillingness to conduct true investigative reporting came this summer when a shooting occurred at a movie theatre in Aurora, Colorado. I have been following that case closely and examined the reporting, the most striking thing to me is that no one in the theatre has or can state that yes they noticed the 6'2" tall guy with the most identifiable color hair in history and the buggy eyes as being in the theatre. That is just one of the plethora of unanswered questions about that case.

I mention this because we need to return to a society who finds it more important to be accurate with news than just be first with the news and when there are unanswered questions we need a media that will highlight the tough questions and push for answers.

We cannot continue to Richard Jewel this nanny because with all of the curious facts about this case the nanny might in fact be a victim and not the assailant.

reply to post by loam



Perhaps it's because I'm getting older...soon Fifty, but I also believe now more than ever that there truly are demonic forces at work.

While I still think most people are good at heart, there's that small percentage that is so evil that it's simply beyond comprehension.

The atrocities they are committing are so far out there and senseless, that I have to reconsider the very ideals I was taught growing up that seemed ridiculous at the time.

At what point did people start committing these terrible acts in which the motivation is never understood?

There is one belief that I often remind myself of.......

I tell myself that the worlds increasing acts of evil and unfairness are nothing more than a Last desperate attempt by the evil ones,(whoever you think they are)...because They know that the time of Great change has come. Imagine a cornered and desperate animal and how you would expect them to behave....
Be Safe!







Tom

reply to post by Tecumte


Hello All, I haven't posted in a while, but I came to ATS to see what real people had to say--I'm also having trouble with the 'official' story. And, I find it strange that the Nanny's family was already throwing her to the wolves before she even regained consciousness and got interviewed by the police.

My biggest question is: what is it that would make this family want to go to the Dominican Republic to visit the Nanny's family? Keep in mind that the Nanny's sister, Celia, is the one who referred her sister for the job. Also, this woman (nanny) has been in this country for over 30 years--why on earth would her family in the Dominican Republic have such importance for the Krims? Her closest relatives are living here, a few sisters, her son.

There must have been something really gooood down there!

That, I believe, is soooo interesting.

Have you ever looked closely at someone who was 'strung out' on coc aine?. You know, that stuff can really devastate the nerves around the face, the nose, and make the face look kind of droopy, funny, sort of.

I feel kinda silly saying this...if anyone else sees it, please let me know I'm not seeing things, lol. It's hard to describe.

So the consensus here is an inference to a 'cover-up', yeah, that's what I thought when I bounced from one news story to the next. So, did Daddy show up yet?

Still the possibility remains as many have mentioned before (I've seen this asked on multiple sites) this might have been retaliation/connected? for MSNBC publishing the story about the 43 trillion dollar lawsuit against the banking mafia. Haven't had time to research the details but interesting, but too with the moms account maybe not plausable. Really great though that since citizens haven't had an honest corporate media for so long that they have formed a huge investigative media arm themselves to bypass the gatekeepers and look into things for themselves. Humanity is linking up and driving the barbarians back to the gates! You go people!

Here's a story claiming (allegedly) that a "mom stabbed kids out of anger at husband"--- not blaming the mom here in this OP story, because of a definate lack of available evidence and verifiable details so far, just saying it apperantly happens as hard as it is to understand and believe:

www.centurylink.net...

Here is something I posted in a similar thread. It is the last post and got no replies. I'm surprised no one is considering this.

"Pardon me on this, as I haven't read the article, but a couple of the posts claim that she refused to talk to anyone but the doctor and when she talked to him she asked how her family was. This would seem strange unless she believed her family was threatened. Maybe she felt that her crime would be avenged by harming her family, or someone threatened to hurt her family if she didn't commit the murders and kill herself. Just a thought."

I'm relating this to the post by UltraMarine, I guess I should have made that point in my last post.

"There is a short article in beforeitsnews , according to which CNBC Exec’s Children are Murdered, 1 Day After CNBC published a news titled : Major Banks, Governmental Officials and Their Comrade Capitalists Targets of Spire Law Group, LLP's Racketeering and Money Laundering Lawsuit Seeking Return of $43 Trillion to the United States Treasury"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nanny formally charged in 2 deaths:

abcnews.go.com...