Could Dept of Transportation's new ground shipping rules soon affect our grocery store shelves and

This is my first thread, so sorry now if it's odd, and mods please move if I am in the wrong forum. I also wish that it was on a subject matter that I am more familiar with, but something was said to me yesterday that seems to have much further implications than just my Christmas cookies.

Yesterday I was doing my grocery shopping, and as I was checking out at our small local warehouse, the checker mentioned that I may want to stock up on vanilla, as she was ringing some up. I of course asked why and she said that Costco had just sent her a notification saying that they would no longer ship vanilla or baking spray, among other things she did not list, only about 150 miles south. I made my smart ass comment about government regulations and we were both wondering how they were going to bring these products into the State of Alaska, if they wont put them on a truck for 3 hours to transport them in-state. I paid for my groceries and left. This lady is either the store manager, or a long standing employee here and she was just trying to be nice by giving me a heads up. I have no reason to disbelieve her.

This is where my dilemma really comes into play, when I made it home and started searching (with limited time to do so) the best I could come up with were notices from Fed-ex, UPS, and USPS regarding Us Department of Transportation's ground shipping changes that mostly affect limited quantity materials ( possibly hazardous materials that are less hazardous in smaller quantities) and consumer commodities and other items that have to be shipped with the classification of ORM-D (domestic shipping only). Here is the fed-ex page.

www.fedex.com...

Still unable to figure out why this made Costco stop shipping vanilla was still beyond me, so I continued to dig last night and came up with this.

www.costha.com...

The most interesting thing that my uneducated eye could find in this document is that they seek to standardize our domestic shipping with international standards. I still do not see how this affects my baked goods, unless the new regulations end up making ground shipping of many items so cost prohibitive that major companies choose to do something like stopping shipment of VANILLA AND BAKING SPRAY!!

My husband's workplace relies on the ground shipment of items classified ORM-D, on a daily basis, and he works for a public utility, how is that going to affect prices. I saw that medicines and I am sure other medical supplies fall into the category as well. I have searched for a comprehensive list of items with that classification, and due to an uncooperative laptop, and lack of time, I have not been able to find one. I can only imagine that if this affects my cookies, then it is going to have some serious consequences as well.
Here is a link into DOT's website as well. I am so unfamiliar with the shipping world to begin with that I really am having a hard time making much sense of this. However, If there is ANY merit to this then it has the great possibility of affecting just about every level of our lives in this country.

www.dot.gov...

I hope that I am WAY off base and 20 people will chime in with that fact in the next few minutes! If that is not the case then can someone please help me to straighten this mess out. Thanks for your time.

Congrats on your 1st thread - its only oddity being WTH are they doing to us now...?!
Will be looking into this more-- first questions are is it the synthetic, or the natural vanilla they are after? As I'm sure your cookies are made with the real thing, of course.

Good score on your investigative skills!

Yeah, we ship hazmat all the time, and have one product that is ORM-D. I can't even begin to imagine how vanilla has anything to do with this change. It's not even affecting our product, and it is an aerosol can.
Either Costco needs a refresher course, or the lady at the store misunderstood.

Vanilla extract is mostly alcohol. Therefore its a hazardous material. Cooking spray is an aresol can, therefore hazardous.
If im thinking correctly, less than 1000 pounds of these are not regulated as hazmat. Im not sure theyre even hazmat after 1000lb.

A trucker has to have a security clearance from tsa to haul hazmat.

Not sure why the feds would change any of this...............unless they just arent requiring placards at all right now and plan to on shipments over 1000lb. Even then i dont know why itd matter. These companies have a habit of loading 999 pounds of hazmat onto trailers anyway...

Originally posted by phroziac
Vanilla extract is mostly alcohol. Therefore its a hazardous material. Cooking spray is an aresol can, therefore hazardous.
If im thinking correctly, less than 1000 pounds of these are not regulated as hazmat. Im not sure theyre even hazmat after 1000lb.

A trucker has to have a security clearance from tsa to haul hazmat.

Not sure why the feds would change any of this...............unless they just arent requiring placards at all right now and plan to on shipments over 1000lb. Even then i dont know why itd matter. These companies have a habit of loading 999 pounds of hazmat onto trailers anyway...

As a hazmat licensed driver, I can tell you that you don't need a secret clearence to drive hazmat, only certain types of hazmat, mainly dealing with military armament and ordnance. Also, the DoD grants said clearance, not the TSA which is a department of DHS. All of this info can be found in the 49 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). Also the weight wouldn't matter except for vehicle placarding purposes. My guess is that because vanilla extract is considered hazmat due to it's alcohol content, it can't be shipped via air, nor can it be shipped via ground outside the U.S., and technically you have to go through Canada to get to Alaska, so it would be considered international shipping. There are ways to ship via air or ground, but the cost is ridiculous, and CostCo probably doesn't care to pay it, and I don't blame them. Perhaps the following DOT letter will clear some of it up.

DOT letter/Vanilla Extract

reply to post by OptimusSubprime



Cartridges, Small Arms, ORM-D (IDG) becomes UN0012, Cartridges, Small Arms, 1.4S (ADG).
Cartridges, Power Devices, ORM-D (IDG) becomes UN0323, Cartridges, Power Devices(ADG).
Yes, but that is an old change, the above are what they are saying is the new changes, which again seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with vanilla.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


I agree that the cost must be more than they are going to want to pay. Thanks for the link too. Can I ask your opinion as a trucker then? I know that there have to be alot of items, and much more important, that fall into that category as well. If I won't be able to find something as simple as vanilla very easily, then what else may be on that list for those of us up north? I have still not been able to find a good comprehensive list of items that may be affected. Do you maybe have a link along those lines as well?

Thanks everyone for the ideas.

reply to post by phroziac


Part of the changes they are implementing have to do with placard changes, but they seem to be eliminating the shipping class of ORM-D which is domestic shipping only. It seems to be related to conforming to international standards. It may have something to do with another recent law signed into place. P.L. 112-141 ( MAP21 ), but I have not had an opportunity to read that either unfortunately. My 2 year old keeps me pretty busy.

reply to post by ItsEvolutionBaby


It was all of it it seemed, I buy both , It is too expensive to use up the good stuff on 20 first graders!!

reply to post by phroziac


I don't know the transport rules but the gas stations around here, Kwik Trip's, transport butane lighters and butane cylinders without any HazMat signage more often than not.

OK, I know not everyone will be immediately affected by these changes, maybe nobody will be. However, from a personal standpoint, if such mundane items will be unavailable or incredibly expensive, then what else is going to be. I have experienced empty store shelves before in my life. That is one of the scariest things I have encountered. Until the day you go to grab a gallon of milk and THERE IS NONE, i guess you just can't imagine.

www.phmsa.dot.gov... vgnextchannel=4f347fd9b896b110VgnVCM1000009ed07898RCRD&vgnextfmt=print

Here is a list I found from DOT. At a cursory glance I see adhesives, alcohol,asphalt, automobile and other self propelled engine components and batteries, all batteries apparently. Detergents, lighters, cases and cartridges and powders and primers, cleaning chemicals. First aid kits and fire extinguishers, medicine and matches. Open it up and see for yourself. I also see Ethanol on the list, as well as gasoline and heating oil. I am paying $4.43 a gallon right now for gas, I can look forward to $5 a gallon gas if the shipping rates are highly affected.

Slightly off subject, how are fibers and fabrics, animal, vegetable or synthetic, in any way hazardous?

I know that the food budget has been one of the hardest hit for our family in the last couple of years. I don't know how much we can afford to have the prices rise due to shipping costs. Apparently, one of my grocery stores is already going to STOP carrying pretty common items because of it. Eventually people have to start going without. How well would your family get along without so many of the items to be affected, or how much more can you pay for such items?

reply to post by woodsmom


This standardization with International regulations sounds like Codex Alimentarius. They are beginning to control what foods we can have. Then there is the new regulation on buying regular sugar. You cannot buy over a certain amount at a time.
Last night I was reading a blog, and a very odd entry there made me stop and think. The blogger was discussing the replacement of real sugar with Monsanto Frankenfoods type stuff including corn syrup, aspartame, and some new product related to aborted babies. Disgusting huh.

Vanilla does contain alcohol, unless you are getting the natural ones not extracted using alcohol.

Also, i have noticed that recently vanilla has become ridiculously overpriced, especially the better brands. Buy it now while you can.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Everything is getting ridiculously expensive it seems. Vanilla happened to be the item that brought this issue to my attention, but it goes so far beyond that. I agree with about the Codex, it also fits with some of the agenda 21 bs. It has always been my theory that the only way to control a populous is through their most basic necessities. Food has always been my first focus personally, but our energy and water resources are just as vital. Unfortunately, so many people don't even understand the concept of our most basic necessities anymore.

All oils, alcohols, fuels, engine parts, ammunition and medicines are going to be affected by these shipping changes. If a corporation as large as Costco will no longer supply the 2 smaller warehouses in the area with certain items as unneeded as vanilla, then what is going to happen to the mechanic shops, and local utilities and our basic everyday services. I am worried that my little mom n pops feed store will no longer carry the wonderful homeopathic remedies and essential oils that nobody else carries, just because I am sure they won't be able to afford shipping.

At least in my local area, I am looking forward to EMPTY SHELVES in areas of my community. I do not know how far reaching it will be, but I can see how far this could go. I have been paying attention for a long time, just so I would not be caught off guard. This throws me though, there are only about 2 months left before some commodities will be more expensive or simply unavailable. I feel bad for the people who walk into their gas station, parts store or grocery store in January and just wont be able to get what they need or possibly not be able to afford it any more.

Oh, BTW, apparently carbon of animal or vegetable origin is also a hazardous material. Really?
Now where could they take that. HAHAHA!!!

reply to post by woodsmom


There is a shortage of vanilla going on right now. Could it be that simple, yes.

www.treehugger.com... stainable-agriculture/plain-vanilla-climate-change-populatioin-growth-clear-cutting.html

Something so simple becomes a concpiracy...Wow! I use a lot of vanilla in baking, so I have been aware of this for a while.

Pun-filled coverage of a world wide vanilla bean shortage is luscious desert for local, regional, and national news outlets. Here's a typical piece: Vanilla Shortage: Rocky Road For Ice Cream Prices. Just why vanilla bean production is failing, and where it is failing, sufficient to drastically increase prices all over the world, get no mention. Heaven forbid, something not-cute be looked into and reported on.

reply to post by Sissel


I guess I should have worded things differently to begin with. The vanilla was the red flag, go ahead and read the list of hazardous materials to be affected by the shipping changes on January 1, 2013. It is the fact that the DOT is removing the classification that exempted out domestic shipping from the extra rules and regs that it takes to ship internationally. Now they want to place us on the international standard. This means , I believe, that the extra regs are going to cost so much that large companies have already decided to NOT SHIP basic items like vanilla, and baking spray, among others to my local community any longer.

All fuels, alcohols, medicines, etc, etc, etc, fall into that category. Batteries, charcoal briquets, lighters, matches, etc. Whether it is a conspiracy or not, it does not change the fact that I will not longer be able to find certain items at the local warehouses anymore.

I have still been unable to find a specific list of consumer commodities that are classified as ORM-D, if anyone out there might have a link or possibly know where to find one, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

reply to post by woodsmom


Fuel prices are driving food prices. I recently signed a lease to become an independent contractor for a trucking company, and I can tell you that if it wasn't for the DOT fuel rebate there's no way some of these small companies could stay around. The first tank of fuel I bought was over $650 before the rebate kicked in.

There are other new rules going into effect next summer that will affect the drivers as well, that will affect things too.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Fuel prices have not been helping anything. Thanks for that, it seems like it's never going to get better sometimes.
Do you by chance have access to a list of items listed under the ORM-D category?

reply to post by woodsmom


I don't have one on hand but I believe I can find one. I'm going to have a little down time in a couple days, so I'll try to find it.