Are People Worth Helping?

What is the best way to help someone?

There seems to be a great amount of people in need of help. Someone have nothing to eat and some have everything but happiness. Some will fail to admit that they themselves could use some help as well.

Are people worth helping or should we just accept that it may be their fate to suffer or do without?

Originally posted by Ralphy
What is the best way to help someone?

There seems to be a great amount of people in need of help. Someone have nothing to eat and some have everything but happiness. Some will fail to admit that they themselves could use some help as well.

Are people worth helping or should we just accept that it may be their fate to suffer or do without?

What the???? C'mon, people are people. Are you including children in your short descriptive here? The elderly? What?

People always need people. Even those that don't need help!

It really depends.

Some of the best help I've got in my life came from people up and bouncing from me.

It forces people who were weak, to gain self-insight else just keep messing up.

You simply can't help someone who doesn't want it, or whom you truly can't relate to.

If the above doesn't apply, sure . . . go for it.

Just realize you could do more damage than good.

It's very tricky to be a grand master, which you must be to teach someone else self-mastery.

Originally posted by Ralphy


Are people worth helping or should we just accept that it may be their fate to suffer or do without?

Its ALWAYS worth helping, those in need.

Fate can change for anyone. Even those who have now.

all life is suffering - Buddha .... some you can help ... others are far beyond helping and best left to fend for themselves...

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”
-Reinhold Niebuhr

I say, help only those who ask for it..however, its also good to know when someone is truely asking for it. Sometimes actions ask when lips don't, sometimes lips pretend to ask, but actions show they don't want help.

Understanding the difference there can be difficult at times, but once you do, you will have a much easier time with people

reply to post by Ralphy


I think it is about trying to find a balance between Love and Wisdom. I would imagine many efforts of my own to try and "help" someone could in fact hinder their growth. Take the "enabler" for instance. Your heart wants to help, but in doing so you could be enabling a negative situation only perpetuating the problem. That is just one example but plenty exist.

That is why I believe balance is the key. I have found a lot of the people in my life who once "wronged" me, in fact helped me grow as an individual more than I had realized. I look at is as a kind gesture from them seeing as they took time away from their growth to help me.

I suppose it is all a matter of perspective, much like everything. Nice thread, thank you.

I used to think I was better that the "weak" people, the undisciplined ones who's problems were all of their own making. That they sought out a life of misery and their main goal was self destruction... plus the fact that misery loves company...and the weak people, seem to have the ability to drag sober and rational people along and down to their level, like vampires of zombies, they infect normal people who get too close to them.
All this is true...but its only one way of looking at life...its true that human weaknesses and addictions come from zero self disciplin...however many people find themselves in bad situations...situations they didn't bank on or plan for...and the added pressures of life when things go wrong...help to push people into giving up.
So are people worth helping? Well we are all weak people, and we all need help, some more than others...but due to the fact that helping someone is fraught with risks. Id throw I rope to a man drowning in quicksand, but Id not swim out to drown with him.
So you should help others, but know how to help them without hurting yourself in the process.


Oh and by the way...I know money isnt everything, but to me autonomy is everything...that means I long for a life where i dont need any help what so ever...and unfortunately a lot of money is required to get to that position...so If anyhow has too much of it...Im ready to allow you to help me...haha.

Don't pity, Don't help, Don't influence, Don't offer, but what you must do is Show.

reply to post by Ralphy


We are always of service to each other - some deliberately, some not, some benevolently, some not - but always of service. The picture is bigger than we can see.

I even figure that the least one tries the better the service.




reply to post by TheBlackHat

Oh and by the way...I know money isnt everything, but to me autonomy is everything...that means I long for a life where i dont need any help what so ever...and unfortunately a lot of money is required to get to that position...so If anyhow has too much of it...Im ready to allow you to help me...haha.

I agree with you on

but to me autonomy is everything...that means.....


.....that means to me that I surf the wave in confidence where ever it takes me.

I am confident because I know I have everything right here and right now that I ever will need to succeed right here and right now and therefore I am confident that the sun shines warm in everybody’s heart.

I’m here to help
You are here to help

To help is fine,but the help you provide sometimes does nothing more than enable more of the problem behaviour.

You must consider ways to be a catalyst for positive change,because you are useless if you weaken yourself to help another.

A lot of people genuinely need help,a lot of others are posing as weak to gain sympathy from you,and get what they want while you do all the work,donating your resources and energy to them.

You do not help a wild animal by feeding it,eventually it will come to you for it's food,forget how to get it's own food,become domesticated and weak,and may die without your help.

There are 360 degrees in a circle,and 360 perspectives something can be viewed from,if you restrict youself to degrees.

Determing true need is very difficult when most people really have no idea what the difference between needs and wants are,but the truth of it is that if ones needs are not met,they can no longer survive.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
I used to think I was better that the "weak" people, the undisciplined ones who's problems were all of their own making.

No person is entirely the author of the success they achieve or the misery they may succumb to as such would require a 'perfectly' balanced world where everyone were born with exactly the same genetic makeup, parents who had the same resource availability, characters and a host of other factors that ensures that there is no equal in our individual struggles in this mad capitalist world.

I am however glad to hear that you used to think that way and have since come to other conclusions or at least a better understanding!

That they sought out a life of misery and their main goal was self destruction... plus the fact that misery loves company...and the weak people, seem to have the ability to drag sober and rational people along and down to their level, like vampires of zombies, they infect normal people who get too close to them.

This is the sort of belief that empowers those that have gained some success ( in the capitalist model this mean capitol accumulation and the resulting 'commodity' benefits)and helps to alleviate some of the guilt they feel for having so much while others clearly have so very little. This is not unexpected as Christian and most other moral systems tells us expressly that wealth accumulation is essentially a sin against your fellow man and one that will most certainly bar the doors too heaven. Thus those who wish you to indulge yourself fully in the capitalist system have found ways to try help salve the distress the lack of compassion the system engenders causes by trying to help you believe that those who have not gained material wealth are entirely responsible for their failure and that you should not feel guilty for stepping on people who brought it on themselves.

That the system of capitalism have been forced on the large majority of the worlds population and that it has the express aim of undermining the economic independence of all people or people's who attempts to maintain their economic independence is simply not known.

All this is true...but its only one way of looking at life...its true that human weaknesses and addictions come from zero self disciplin...however many people find themselves in bad situations...situations they didn't bank on or plan for...and the added pressures of life when things go wrong...help to push people into giving up.

If people really had zero self discipline they would be rioting, and if they had any understanding of who and why the system works as it does there would by assassinations and killings going on in even the most 'civilized' nations, and taking whatever goods they needed to survive but instead the vast majority are in fact trying to take part in this system to whatever measure they can manage.

The other problem with your analysis is the presumption that there is a blank slate at birth whereas the facts in fact tell us rather clearly that a person's economic independence prospects are too a very very significant degree determined at his birth and why he is born too; neither are factors a newborn has any control over.

So are people worth helping? Well we are all weak people, and we all need help, some more than others...but due to the fact that helping someone is fraught with risks. Id throw I rope to a man drowning in quicksand, but Id not swim out to drown with him.
So you should help others, but know how to help them without hurting yourself in the process.

I prefer the word 'flawed' as surviving in the conditions most people on this planet still do requires the mental fortitude to accept that the world around you has conspired to keep you in a very specific place ( if you were a women for most of human history you basically had no independence of important life changing action/decision) living a life you never chose and can not change. As always each man's moral code will determine what he is willing to sacrifice to help others in need and the danger is of course in being taught a moral code that tells you that people suffer because they brought it entirely on themselves thus turning history on it's head and disregarding all moral considerations; why would one after all help anyone who have done it to themselves?

so If anyhow has too much of it...Im ready to allow you to help me...haha.

When morality reigns people do not have to independently seek resources for future survival as they will be both supporting each other and defending each others interest until the end of their lives. Independent capital accumulation, especially in zero sum economic systems where it comes from someone else, is not Christian and there is no great moral arguments to be made in favor of it either.

But at least the west is Christian and all so there is hope, right?

Stellar

you will not be all you can be till those around you are all that they can be also...
help is not providing their meal, or providing a roof over they head as much as it is finding that spot in creation where you belong and helping them find theirs.
but, yes, the living beings on this planet are the only things that really matter in the long run. a part of them will last forever...
that gold and silver, those paper dollars that accumulate in bank vaults and electronic credits that will never be printed ever, well, they are just the tools people have invented to aid them in their quest to happiness and fullfillment..

reply to post by Ralphy


If there is nothing you can do about it, being sad or angry will not change anything so you might as well focus on other things and be happy, unless there is actually something you will do to help.

Good question and one I've pondered myself the last few years.

Group A
There are people whom you help that can't be helped or are ungrateful, who expect help. Those individuals can''t be helped. Walk away, your wasting your time.

Group B
There are others who create a life or circumstances that we might not agree with that causes them to need or seek help. This is where it gets tricky. Pray if you should help, as this group can easily be like group A, expecting help, but continue to create situations in life that require help. This is where you can get sucked in and risk your time, money and effort helping someone who will always need help because of bad decisions on their part, who won't learn.

Group C
This group has either had the worst upbringing imaginable, or has had zero family/friends who are functioning to help them make good decisions. These are the people that need the most help. These people are not use to being helped and are either vulnerable or in tremendous need. It's difficult to find out if these individuals are Group B in disguise, but you will quickly find out. This is the group that is most in need who you can truly help.

I love helping people. I often get caught into helping people who continue to make the same mistake over and over again, or who ask for help, but live a better life than I do (financially speaking). These are egomaniac/users. There is no helping this type of person(s).

Therefore, use your best judgement and don't let others take advantage of you, but don't stop looking for ways to help others either through giving your time, money, advice and/or caring/love.

reply to post by StellarX


HI,
Well you mention Christianity...I was brought up Christian, but Id not describe myself as one...We live in a secular society...and to be a Christian in a secular society ...in my opinion...is just about impossible...
When I say Christian I mean it...if your to live by the law of the Bible and Jesus, then you will end up like Jesus did...being a martry..and being hated and despised by those around you..and eventually you will be crucified.
So the modern Christians, who are mostly born again's, are not what id call true Christians,....because they fully participate in secularism and consumerism.. they follow pop culture and so on...and the idea of living a strict religious life would be out of the question for almost all of these Christians.
Modern western Christians, are Christian in name only. You would need to be a hermit, in a cave to get anywhere near to being what the Bible describes as a Christian.
So when it comes to helping people, you do not have to be a christian to believe its the right thing to do...you can be an atheist and still believe in being humane..
as for me....it depends what side of the bed I get out of.

reply to post by Ralphy


Good question. I like the Jesus response to it. Help should be given to those that most need it. It is wasted on the strong who do not appreciate it or on the talented that look down upon it.

Some people you can't help though. Some people don't want it even though they need it.

For them it is their fate to learn how to deal with it before you can help them.

You either cherish life or you don't is an abrasive way you could look at it.

Sure, people who care about no one but themselves may love their life but it means nothing.
what meaning is there to life but to cherish it? I'm not talking about the way things are, but the fact we exist. We've got no other reason to be but to make it better.

We even watch other people on TV having joy and it gives us joy... So it should be clear, my joy is your joy and your joy is mine. We don't usually come right out and say this though... or teach it actually. Schools these days can sometimes be the opposite, teaching winner takes all.

If we could just take a look a remember what we know a person is supposed to stand for according to US... our own set of morals, it's easy to see why so much is surprising us these days.

You'd think even the superstitious might bite and it's bad when the superstitious can out do the influential but if that's the case, if people could understand how connected everyone is... they'd see it's not really superstition. If you don't help others, you might be hurting yourself. Others that don't feel they have anything to offer or help are a setback to the whole process. There ARE people who want to help but can't. The powerful control them as well so there are multiple knocks going against how everything is falling into place... and telling us why bad things happen when so many are letting it. The answer is obvious so do you want to be part of the problem? Or would you rather say that you tried to do what is right... because it was only people like that who changed the world for the better.

Helping others needs to include the process for making the decision on what kind of help and whether or not helping is a good idea at all.

I mean this,,, somebody that asks for help that really means -- do this for me. No, I probably would hold back. Locating a con can be tricky as heck, though,.

But if somebody seems clearly headed for a preventable fall, maybe some nudging so they can see a fall coming, can let them take the steps "they" need to take.

But first of all check your own motive; make sure your need to 'help' another isn't a smokescreen to jack up your own ego.

Suffering can be a great teacher!!!

reply to post by Ralphy