Failed Green Energy workers playing Cards all day long

Good thread and I feel there are a lot of variables in the mix, here in Canada we have our own troubles and here is one example.

Text Canada is hardly alone in persevering with coal. Germany, the bastion of alternative energy, has seen its coal consumption rise 5% since the government started mothballing its nuclear energy plans. BP’s annual energy review shows coal consumption grew 10% in China and around 11% in India and South Korea. “Coal still accounts for about 80% of the energy production in China and 45% in Japan, and coal will remain the baseload for Japan even as it moves away from nuclear, so globally it’s not possible to get away from coal,” Jeff Largey, a Macquarie analyst told Reuters. Meanwhile, nuclear has still not recovered from the Fukushiyama disaster last year, with key consumers such as Germany and Japan cancelling nuclear projects and switching to coal and natural gas. The International Atomic Energy Agency said it expects growth in nuclear energy capacity to slow down, but not reverse. The green movement is not exactly dead, as consuming countries remain keen to reduce their dependence on expensive hydrocarbon imports, but it would take fairer economic winds to revive interest. It would also take exceptional boldness from policymakers to push the industry forward — and that’s one commodity that’s hardest to find.

Quoted from this site here.
business.financialpost.com...


I have to agree that things are not what they seem to be, we are being clouted in the wallet just as hard as can be at the wrong time.

I saw in a flyer the other day CFL bulbs that you can now dim on sale for only $39.99 each, I am not joking!

We can fill a grocery cart for the price of two bulbs, yet our electricity bills are going through the roof here because of the stupid green movement.

S&F to the OP

Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by randomname
the only thing you can fault obama is for not putting them in jail.

if a company makes bold claims that are good for america and the economy, they have to deliver.

it looks like the ceo's and investors made off like bandits with hundreds of millions of dollars and had no intention of doing any work.

maybe obama doesn't want to poke the hornets nest and let on he was hoodwinked and swindled by prosecuting them and taking all the blame for their theft.

the alternative is he colluded with these people or is paying back political favors, but had no idea they'll actually rob him in his face.

See the problem here, is green energy is great for the economy in the initial set up stage, it provides jobs in construction, but it doesn't support the economy once it's in place. Green energy solutions like solar power do not provide jobs. A solar panel, produces energy as long as there is sunlight with little to no maintenance, this is why many satellites/space projects rely on solar energy. Until the panel needs to be replaced there isn't much for an employee to do at a solar array I would imagine.

Originally posted by Hijinx



See the problem here, is green energy is great for the economy in the initial set up stage, it provides jobs in construction, but it doesn't support the economy once it's in place. Green energy solutions like solar power do not provide jobs. A solar panel, produces energy as long as there is sunlight with little to no maintenance, this is why many satellites/space projects rely on solar energy. Until the panel needs to be replaced there isn't much for an employee to do at a solar array I would imagine.

I find this whole thing suspicious. I worked at a Solar Company in Phoenix, that did not get any money from the government. In one month, they had over a thousand installs.

Why these companies that government funds are doing nothing at all is beyond me.

Obama is creating jobs and this is total proof, you all are just being picky....

reply to post by Sissel


I think the reason is, that these were projects to set up solar farms so to speak.

I can see how a company installing panels, for clients would be a very profitable business, how ever the latter not so much. You obviously have some experience, if a company were to set up a solar array for the means of providing power as a green solution to coal, or gas power facilities could you understand employees having little to do? I do not have experience with solar panels, only what I've read, but if a facility were set up with an array of panels with the intention of providing public power would the operation be a flop or success?

TextI actually have no problem what so ever with Green Energy. However, the biggest issue is that I CANT AFFORD IT! I wish I could convert my home to 100% solar. But I cant. The cost is a staggering 30K USD to do so. So whats the point? In today's limited borrowing economy, where nobody is lending money, how is one to take advantage of a 20 year ROI when one doesn't have the funds? SO unless someone is going to help me finance my solar house, or give me a windmill, you can easily say that green energy is for the RICH ONLY. Right? I would have no problem what so ever driving a Tesla...believe me. I was on the waiting list for a roadster, until they increased the prices from 80K to over 120K. These technologies are too expensive for the MAJORITY. The Minority has no chance of participating, so what's the point?

reply to post by phantomjack


You hit the proverbial nail on the head with that post.

Rest assured you are not alone in the claim we cannot afford this.

Unless the the top guns return the wage inflation rate back to the Late 70's/ 80's it cannot work out for the middle class, heck even the upper middle class.

I truly do not know how the lower class is even surviving with all this crap happening.

Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by Hijinx



See the problem here, is green energy is great for the economy in the initial set up stage, it provides jobs in construction, but it doesn't support the economy once it's in place. Green energy solutions like solar power do not provide jobs. A solar panel, produces energy as long as there is sunlight with little to no maintenance, this is why many satellites/space projects rely on solar energy. Until the panel needs to be replaced there isn't much for an employee to do at a solar array I would imagine.

I find this whole thing suspicious. I worked at a Solar Company in Phoenix, that did not get any money from the government. In one month, they had over a thousand installs.

Why these companies that government funds are doing nothing at all is beyond me.

Interesting my neighbour worked at a major solar farm and he too loved the job with almost 1000 others, good work and lousy pay, they all got let go when the job was done as you do with a government subsidized program.

Keep in mind solar panels only have a life of 12 to 15 years and this project paid by the taxpayers cost millions and millions.

Now we are assured that during cloudy days in the summer a few brownouts or even total blackouts are to be expected along with our 40% higher bills and no jobs.

Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Sissel

 

I think the reason is, that these were projects to set up solar farms so to speak.

I can see how a company installing panels, for clients would be a very profitable business, how ever the latter not so much. You obviously have some experience, if a company were to set up a solar array for the means of providing power as a green solution to coal, or gas power facilities could you understand employees having little to do? I do not have experience with solar panels, only what I've read, but if a facility were set up with an array of panels with the intention of providing public power would the operation be a flop or success?

Here in Arizona, even the power companies are planning solar farms, so there will be work for people to set those up.

www.srpnet.com...

SRP has selected Iberdrola Renewables Inc. to build and operate a 20-megawatt solar photovoltaic (PV) power facility that would, for the first time, allow an Arizona utility's customers to save money by buying the green energy directly from SRP's land-mounted solar power plant. When completed, the solar facility would be the largest utility-scale solar photovoltaic facility of its kind in Arizona, producing enough power to serve more than 4,500 homes, said Mark Bonsall, SRP's associate general manager for Commercial and Customer Services

www.aps.com...

Click on the above link to read about it....this project won't be finished until 2013.

So all these workers could be employed through power companies.

Does this answer your question? I am not quite sure what kind of answer you want.

Also, there is lots of work in the recycling of old solar panels. They are highly toxic, and the materials in them can be recycled into new ones.

Originally posted by Iwinder


Interesting my neighbour worked at a major solar farm and he too loved the job with almost 1000 others, good work and lousy pay, they all got let go when the job was done as you do with a government subsidized program.

Keep in mind solar panels only have a life of 12 to 15 years and this project paid by the taxpayers cost millions and millions.

Now we are assured that during cloudy days in the summer a few brownouts or even total blackouts are to be expected along with our 40% higher bills and no jobs.

Regards, Iwinder

See the last post I made. Power companies are setting up solar farms, so there is work out there for people displaced from the company you described above. There is also work available to recycle the old panels.

You need to research a little further because solar panels have been greatly improved and are capable of gathering enough energy even in areas where there is not bright sunlight, even for days at a time, so I don't get your point about rolling brownouts and blackouts. Your bill should be a lot lower if you go solar!

reply to post by Sissel


Have a read at this article, this is our local farm where my neighbour worked and as you can see almost 1000 people.

Today it is done and has a total of 12 workers now and most are part time.

All paid with the green feeling tax dollars.....

Link below
www.cbc.ca...

Everyone got to work rain or shine for 8 bucks and hour then they got the golden kick in the ass only to open their next bill for electricity and say WTF?

All nice and neat with their very own tax dollars.


Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Iwinder
reply to post by Sissel

 

Have a read at this article, this is our local farm where my neighbour worked and as you can see almost 1000 people.

Today it is done and has a total of 12 workers now and most are part time.

All paid with the green feeling tax dollars.....

Link below
www.cbc.ca...


Everyone got to work rain or shine for 8 bucks and hour then they got the golden kick in the ass only to open their next bill for electricity and say WTF?

All nice and neat with their very own tax dollars.


Regards, Iwinder

I don't know what part of the country you are in, but in Arizona installers get paid a heck of a lot more than $8.00 per hour. None of them would even consider doing the job if that was all they got paid. It's in such a high demand here that a company is willing to fork over quite a bit to keep these guys busy.

Perhaps they need to relocate. Ooops, just realized you are in Canada!

reply to post by Sissel

TextI don't know what part of the country you are in, but in Arizona installers get paid a heck of a lot more than $8.00 per hour. None of them would even consider doing the job if that was all they got paid. It's in such a high demand here that a company is willing to fork over quite a bit to keep these guys busy. Perhaps they need to relocate.

And just how do they pack up their family and relocate after working a year at 8 bucks an hour?

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to be combative here, I just see the little guys getting squashed and put to pasture for the greater greed of the big guys.

I assure you if he and his work crew could relocate for much better money they would.
The problem is these types of jobs are dead end.
Eventually he will get work tearing down the same thing he put up and that too will be through government assistance.

Of course that is a way of saying you the tax payers are paying for big corporations to do what they want.

Google Enbridge Pipelines and you will see what I am talking about...

I do believe they have a powerful presence there in the USA.
Thanks for the banter and trading of thought here.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Iwinder
..

I do believe they have a powerful presence there in the USA.
Thanks for the banter and trading of thought here.
Regards, Iwinder

You're welcome. I did go back and add an oops to my post saying I realized that you were in Canada. Sorry, as I see it would be quite difficult for them to get to Arizona. Perhaps the government programs in your country are different from those here. While the company I worked for did not receive money from the federal government, homeowners and businesses are able to get tax credits and incentives to install solar. Also, they get rebates from the power companies, so as I said here, anyway, the installers at the solar company I worked for stay very busy.

I understand the anger at the lost money during a time like now. However everyone seems quick to forget, that in the pursuit of progress, investing in research for the sake of research, along with failed ideas are the majority of what happens in the development of any product. Nothing is invented over night, or for free. Look at the big picture. Not just what is shoved in your face to provoke a reaction

Imagine you're a green energy investor. As your solar/wind products are too expensive, the government gives you a grant and subsidizes your products to lower the cost for your customers.

In every respect, the government is simply rewarding you with free money simply because your products are unsalable. If you're a smart investor, the last thing you would do is make your products more affordable!

Why? Because you would risk a large amount of capital on research and development, only to achieve one of two outcomes...

1. You fail, and lose your investment capital
   
2. You succeed, and seize any further tax-payer funded subsidies or grants
   

Also, subsidies are great for increasing demand for a product. We operate on a price system that charges the highest possible amount that the market will allow. Hence, any subsidized product will become more expensive to offset the increased artificial demand. The net effect is a windfall of free money for green energy investors who've now no interest in making salable products.

Subsidies and grants encourage producers to make expensive, inefficient products.

All this money spent seems to have been a waste. While I don't want that, I still would be happy to see green energy get government money. I just want to see a better success rate. I think some of these businesses could have been a success, but for whatever reason the government threw money at them without bothering with other assistance. Assistance like making sure that China wasn't selling below cost to destroy the US competition. Things like mandating that in order to qualify for that home energy tax credit the home owner had to use made in USA products. Throwing money at a business doesn't help if the business environment is not conducive to success.

Green energy is great and I believe it is becoming competitive. Germany has successfully embraced it, as have others. I support nurturing the industry, but what I'm seeing is just a dumb waste.

When you make a lot of investments there are bound to be a few that fail. Getting our foot in the green energy door is not a simple task there will be growing pains but America needs to be energy dependent, it's not all about creating jobs.

Originally posted by zero1020
When you make a lot of investments there are bound to be a few that fail. Getting our foot in the green energy door is not a simple task there will be growing pains but America needs to be energy dependent, it's not all about creating jobs.

But.... Why invest in a losing proposition ?

"They HAD to know" !!

Ten years ago, solar panels were made mostly in the United States, Germany, and Japan. Chinese manufacturers made almost none. But by 2006, the Chinese company Suntech Power had the capacity to make over a million silicon-based solar panels a year and was already the world's third-largest producer.....

The Chinese Solar Machine

Since 2006 ..... the Chinese company was the 3rd largest in the world !!!!!

Obama & Co. had to know this

And, it looks like those cheap Chinese panels are creating U.S. jobs .... ?

Perhaps more than with the expensive panels ?

The solar-power business is expanding quickly in the U.S., helping lift the cloud that has surrounded the industry since the demise of Solyndra LLC a year ago.

But the growth isn't coming from U.S. solar-panel manufacturing, despite the money and rhetoric devoted to the industry by the Obama administration. Instead, it is in installations of largely foreign-made panels, whose falling price has made solar more competitive with other forms of power.

"There should be little emphasis put on where the panels are made," said Lyndon Rive, chief executive of SolarCity Corp., which finances and installs rooftop solar systems. "Most of the jobs are in delivery and they're long-term, permanent jobs."..................

Fueled by Cheap Chinese Panels, U.S. Solar Use Soars

BUT !!....

What will the new tariffs do to domestic prices ?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Wednesday set steep final duties on billions of dollars of solar energy products from China, but turned down a request from lawmakers and U.S. manufacturers to expand the scope of its order.

Chinese solar manufacturers criticized the decision, adding more heat to the U.S.-China trade relationship following a congressional panel report on Monday urging American companies not to do business with two Chinese telecommunications companies because of security concerns.....

U.S. sets steep final duties on Chinese solar panels

At least we see some actual results from using a foreign made product !!


this entire Obama sucker punch was NOT about green energy....

Oh Wait !! Yes it was......."Green" as in cash, not green planet.

Related thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not sure what you guys are doing wrong over there, our environmental energy transition here works pretty good.

Last year green power covered ~20.8% (57.3 billion kilowatt-hours) of Germany's electricity needs.
7,5% wind, 5,6% biomass, 3,5% photovoltaik, 3,3% water and 0,8% refuse fuelled power and others.
Not bad for the beginning of our program.

Might be related to general support by our citizens.
94% of German citizens believe the development of renewable energy is important or very important.
65% were in favor and willing to support eco-systems in their direct neighborhood.
People see green technologies as a homegrown investment in their future.

If you don't want a piece of this, suit yourselves. We'll deliver.

Originally posted by ColCurious
Not sure what you guys are doing wrong over there

We're emotional sheep lead by cold shepherds.