The Divided States of America

I have been thinking about this for awhile now as I read more and more hate and division on these and other boards surrounding the upcoming elections. The two party paradigm is ripping this country apart and rather than stepping back and really think about what is happening, more and more people are doubling down and getting more offensive and vulgar.

It is something that really bothers me because I smell conspiracy at it's heart. I think this is all engineered...created...with the sole purpose of splitting or fragmenting this country into little "state" sized countries. When the civil wars end, the wealthy plutocrats will step in and declare themselves "rulers" over whatever amount of land they have bought up through their corporate holdings. That could be through buying up foreclosed properties or just laying claim to the deeds their corporations (banks) hold title on.

Let's face it, if the "two parties" in control were considered a "marriage"...we have reached the point of irreconcilable differences". There isn't going to be a "kiss and make up" time coming. I strongly feel that the unrest is going to turn violent. Perhaps descend into open para-military type conflict in the streets.

The methodical separation of the people has been brilliantly executed. We turn on each other in a minute. You have the people that are trying to become wealthy and want to protect that path just in case they do and you have the people who are trying to take from the wealthy...or..."make them pay their fair share" as they would say. The problem on both sides of this philosophical conflict is that neither side has stopped frothing at the mouth long enough to realize this is an engineered plot to destroy this country. Someone is purposefully creating these scenarios to turn neighbor against neighbor...brother against brother. They WANT us p!ssed at each other and divided.

I recall years ago the Chinese said they would take this country and never fire a shot. I am not saying that at this time that this is the case...I was using that as an example that it is possible to shatter a country from the inside out and just swoop in during the height of conflict and take over. More than likely, it is the Globalists, Plutocrats and Oligarchs that are behind this.

We have been spoon fed this idea that we "need" to spend more on defense than all other countries combined. I mean...really? If we spend as much as the rest of the world combined...seems to me that would mean we could hold off the rest of the world combined...isn't that enough? We have been told that there is "danger everywhere" and that there are threats to our way of life around every corner as justification for these expenditures. Expenditures which, by the way, are over priced gouging from the privately owned military industrial complex. That is our money they are spending btw.

It's something that really concerns me. Am I a little over the top? Yeah, of course I am...what conspiracy theory isn't a little over the top? But as an American Citizen and what I consider to be a patriot...I am very concerned. There has to be something we can do to lay the swords down and meet at a table of negotiation to work this countries problems out. Everyone calling each other names and getting their blood pressure up isn't solving anything. Threatening violence against candidates isn't solving anything.

A cold hard fact is this country is basically split in it's political philosophy. Sure, there are some emerging, relatively new parties with fresh ideas and philosophies( which I myself have embraced) but they are not going to grow if people ignore them, dehumanize them or laugh at them. Some of them have some pretty good, modern ideas.

So what do we do? We cannot say one side is right and one side is wrong. That is exactly what gives rise to civil war. We have to be willing to admit that parts of both sides are good and some parts are not so good. And I am talking about the good of the whole country.

So let's hear some ideas....How do we stop this madness and begin a healing process before my title of this thread becomes the truth?

No, no, not over the top at all I think you hit the nail on the head personally. I have been screaming this for a while now. The enemy is not the Republicans or Democrats, at least not directly. It is my opinion that we are very much living in a plutocracy, and once we realize who the real enemies are and stop treating each other like crap due to differing political ideologies maybe we can change this country. The problem is, not enough people want to listen.

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reply to post by Jeremiah65


My idea is as simple as it seems to be impossible. I believe we simply need to keep one truth in mind. In the end and after the election is over we are all...ALL...Americans here first. We're political creatures and then have loyalty to a party as distant 2nd's and 3rds. In my view, people have totally lost sight of that in a way similar to how our citizens once lost sight of it before and became blinded by Union and Confederacy thinking, well before the first shots rang out.

At the end of the American Civil war, it was said that following the signing of the end of the conflict, the Union troops began to cheer and jeer at the Confederate Officers present. History records there being a very harsh, immediate and strong admonishment AGAINST gloating or showing glee at the official defeat of the South or the end of the War. We're all Americans again. it was said, and it was true. They were and we are.

If we keep letting the politics defined by people we've never met, will never talk to and can never understand entirely set the tone and ability of each of us to function and work together.........then we will become what the extremes of both parties WANT to create in their own ideology. We'll become mere extensions of the partisan warfare we watch on TV...........across 330 MILLION people. It's already far down that path, as the OP notes.

reply to post by Osiris1953


Maybe they can't listen for some reason. Maybe the social programming and intellectual engineering has made it so they cannot step back and think critically. For me, If a person cannot see that there is something far more sinister at work than the left-right ideologies...they are missing the truth.

Someone out there is systematically dismantling this country...for whatever reason. Is it pure greed and arrogance? Maybe. Is it a vendetta from ages past and an organization somewhere decided it was going to topple the great experiment? I do not know. What I am pretty sure about is that every single topic that is released as a "problem" is designed and tossed into the public spectrum with the sole intention of causing more division among the people. Divide and conquer is one of the oldest tactics of was...because a nation divided cannot stand.

I don't know how to reach people with this thought. I don't have a nemesis they can point at and say "it's all your fault" because to a point, it's all of our fault. I don't know how to extend an olive branch to both sides and say "we have to stop this madness, it is destroying us". Some are so enraged they have lost the capacity for rational thought and some would blatantly say it should be destroyed...

I tell myself I will hold on to hope until this world is literally broken apart, but the truth is, it gets harder to hope when each day brings more and more tirades of hate across all forms of media.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It almost seems that a second civil war is going to be inevitable if we cannot step back and take a breath. I have never seen the likes of hate and intolerance as I have over the last year or so. I mean flat out bitterness and common sense has officially left the building.

We have two groups...political parties and their followers...that are both (in theory) trying to find solutions to problems. But rather than having an open mind and at least entertain what the other side is presenting, they fly off into rants and tirades. Most remarkably, they can't even agree on the causes or who the "enemy" is so they blame each other. One side wants to blame the wealthy and the other wants to blame the poor...pretty damned amazing if you ask me. I think...the enemy is something or someone else...I just haven't figured out "who or what" just yet. I haven't quite figured out (beyond the plutocrats and property deed holders) who would most benefit from a fragmentation of the United States.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
So let's hear some ideas....How do we stop this madness and begin a healing process before my title of this thread becomes the truth?

You would like to see a healing process in a country currently designated as a warzone by its leaders. I don't know...

If you really want to change some minds for the better then the first step is probably fixing political language and the brainwashed masses views of said language. You know, the left vs. right, republican vs. democrat, liberal vs. conservative and so on talk.

It's turned every day people that try to learn about politics into bigots. Anything they don't like will simply get the label of an opposed ideology slapped on to it and then presented for the like-minded hatemongers to stew it up and rage on.

People don't understand that party leaders, and minority leaders, and wips, and chairs, and so on... They will vote against their party lines and then they will give their little blurbs or spend some podium time talking party points and the brainwashing catch phrases to make people think they are model members of their ideology. Kick that can on down the road, it's a slippery slope, this revenue generation to prevent austerity... Brainwashing.

Honestly though, if you really want a change in politics, I say make lobbying equivalent to treason and punish for it as such then fire everyone in government on the grounds of gross negligence and re-staff all positions with non-legacy, non-dual citizens. That might be a good start to something better.

i think that calling yourself a 'Patriot' is in itself a declaration that you are anti-government, anti-status quo,,,
and thus a "person of interest" to the DHS

if you differ from the very large group of people that think that they are Entitled to a decent quality-of-life without individual effort (other than voting for the status-quo)... then you are indeed seperating yourself from the hive mind


you will be surveiled, watched, tracked, a 'file' created so you may be 'Reeducated' to comport youself accordingly

Originally posted by St Udio
i think that calling yourself a 'Patriot' is in itself a declaration that you are anti-government, anti-status quo,,,
and thus a "person of interest" to the DHS

if you differ from the very large group of people that think that they are Entitled to a decent quality-of-life without individual effort (other than voting for the status-quo)... then you are indeed seperating yourself from the hive mind


you will be surveiled, watched, tracked, a 'file' created so you may be 'Reeducated' to comport youself accordingly

That's the fun isn't it? Then the games begin! (sarcasm lol)

If no one will stand up to these thugs for themselves, i'm glad to know there is 1 who will...

1 is where it begins..

reply to post by Noncents


I have said that myself. Remove the career politicians and put term limits in Congress. No Congressman should be able to serve more time than a President. I have also said that the Lobbyist need to go. I have no quarrel with people that want an audience with a Representative to present an issue or topic. It's when it is done under the table or behind closed doors that is a problem. If people, groups or organizations wants to make an appeal to the representatives of Congress, it should be completely transparent and a log should be kept...just to keep everyone honest.


I also believe that Gov service at any level should be the equivalent of jury duty. You get selected, you go and do your time and you return to a regular life. No super salary, no lifetime pension and no self indulgence. Nice thought eh?

But yes, the name calling because someone has a different view is not helping the cause one bit.

reply to post by Jeremiah65

I agree with most of what you're saying here. Like you, I have never seen my nation as torn and divided as it stands today. Perhaps the generations before me saw some of this leading to the '68 elections? The 1800's had some far worse than we have now....but then look at the level of sophistication and culture at the time. Given that, I suppose it's comparable and not really worse.

You know what pisses me off the most right now though? It's becoming true anger too..sincere pissed off. It's what you touch on a bit here and I've just started really keying on to notice for some reason.

It's the Class Warfare we're being force fed from both sides 24/7 and all the time. One side tells us we must hate the rich. They are evil bastards who only got rich by screwing everyone else on Earth. How rich doesn't seem to matter. Rich is Rich is Rich and it's all evil....to hear it said. The OTHER side tells us everyone below our position (whatever position we're at) are evil. They're moochers and takers and nation breakers. Just sucking us all dry by welfare and food stamps and the rest.


Well.... Hell with 'em BOTH I say on that. I refuse to look at everyone who has done better than I as evil or bad. I absolutely will NOT look down and crap on those less fortunate than i am and never blame THEM for trillions of National bankruptcy. They didn't INVENT the programs they've some to need to survive. Maybe you are right about a second Civil War. I hope not.

meanwhile...the professional politicians WHO DID CREATE the whole framework that has made this ALL happen are blameless and free riding on our misery....all the while pushing and pushing for the class war to continue and grow, Again.. hell with 'em all. I'm American and I'm just flat out not going to hate on *ANY* other American based on their Politics or personal finances. It's cheap, ignorant and it's killing our nation.

Originally posted by St Udio
i think that calling yourself a 'Patriot' is in itself a declaration that you are anti-government, anti-status quo,,,
and thus a "person of interest" to the DHS

if you differ from the very large group of people that think that they are Entitled to a decent quality-of-life without individual effort (other than voting for the status-quo)... then you are indeed seperating yourself from the hive mind


you will be surveiled, watched, tracked, a 'file' created so you may be 'Reeducated' to comport youself accordingly

If being a patriot, someone who truly believes in the great experiment that is our Constitutional Republic makes me a bad guy...well...shame on me. I want to see great things happen. I remember in my naive youth, I had wonderful ideas about where we could go in the future...at this rate, we are "devolving" as a species...we are not getting better, we are getting worse!

You are right, I refuse to take part of the "hive mind"...the collective unconsciousness" I like to call it...the sleeping herds.

I believe that people should use their brains, their gifts and talents to do the best they can do. EVERYONE has a talent to some extent...big or small...trivial or critical...use it....USE IT! Don't wait for someone to come by and give you a good and comfortable life...or you will be waiting all your life and it will never come. But that is another topic.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Jeremiah65

 

I agree with most of what you're saying here. Like you, I have never seen my nation as torn and divided as it stands today. Perhaps the generations before me saw some of this leading to the '68 elections? The 1800's had some far worse than we have now....but then look at the level of sophistication and culture at the time. Given that, I suppose it's comparable and not really worse.

You know what pisses me off the most right now though? It's becoming true anger too..sincere pissed off. It's what you touch on a bit here and I've just started really keying on to notice for some reason.

It's the Class Warfare we're being force fed from both sides 24/7 and all the time. One side tells us we must hate the rich. They are evil bastards who only got rich by screwing everyone else on Earth. How rich doesn't seem to matter. Rich is Rich is Rich and it's all evil....to hear it said. The OTHER side tells us everyone below our position (whatever position we're at) are evil. They're moochers and takers and nation breakers. Just sucking us all dry by welfare and food stamps and the rest.


Well.... Hell with 'em BOTH I say on that. I refuse to look at everyone who has done better than I as evil or bad. I absolutely will NOT look down and crap on those less fortunate than i am and never blame THEM for trillions of National bankruptcy. They didn't INVENT the programs they've some to need to survive. Maybe you are right about a second Civil War. I hope not.

meanwhile...the professional politicians WHO DID CREATE the whole framework that has made this ALL happen are blameless and free riding on our misery....all the while pushing and pushing for the class war to continue and grow, Again.. hell with 'em all. I'm American and I'm just flat out not going to hate on *ANY* other American based on their Politics or personal finances. It's cheap, ignorant and it's killing our nation.

You said a word in there and I am glad to hear it in one intonation...you said you would absolutely not look down on the less fortunate...bravo. Because that is what we all are...more fortunate or less fortunate..."fortune" can be a fickle mistress.

But you are right and I too am way past tired of it. Blaming the rich or blaming the poor doesn't make them go away and it sure as hell doesn't solve anything.

I also have decided I am not going to play the "hate" game. I can choose to disagree with someone, I can prefer to not be in their company...but I refuse to hate or wish bad things upon another human being.

ETA:

This "class warfare" is just another thread of this clever web of deceit and deception that is tearing us apart. There has to be a common denominator that we are all...for some reason...not putting 2+2 together...for some reason, I feel like I am missing the gorilla in the room. There HAS to be a forseeable outcome if this continues and there has to be someone or some group that is going to reap the most rewards if and when it does all fall apart.

They say follow the money, and that is probably true. BUT...in a "post cataclysmic" world...what will be important? Shelter, water and food...and the means of production of those things...land. I have often wondered if the "housing crisis" wasn't an engineered collapse to get the deeds of property into circulation at a time that only the extreme plutocrats and oligarchs could take advantage of...and guess what...they have and they are.

reply to post by Jeremiah65

Again you raise an excellent point I've dwelled on many a night myself. What IS the end game here? Why the push so much harder now than ever before to split us by Race, income and even intelligence as the Florida race testing standards showed?

Plenty say it's for a police state or NWO one world Government and the like... I don't doubt there are those pushing for that very outcome but there is a disconnect as you're noting too.

THIS doesn't help them get THERE. Dividing us to the point of hate so deep it blows into open unrest are divisions the unrest WON'T heal. I think we're seeing the start of a base of division which could last and build for generations.......as inter-group/tribe/race grudges already exist all over the world. Some, for so long now, even the people fighting can't precisely say why, anymore.

You also raise an outstanding point about the money. We look at these men who are SO wealthy that numbers mean nothing anymore. Billionaires and the crowd in that TRUE 1% global club. Just why would they want total collapse? In a world where money has evaporated for value, being rich is a relative thing no stacks of paper can do a thing to help. We need not even get to laughing about digital records of wealth. Umm.. What records after TSHTF?

So much here....it just doesn't track or make sense when taken as we SEE it. I agree there MUST be more. Probably something real big and in hindsight, will have seemed obvious to the point of feeling stupid for not realizing it. Something tells me that figuring out that answer may mean the difference, someday, for who makes it comfortably and who doesn't...or even who survives and who doesn't. Maddening, isn't it?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yep...It is maddening. There is a gorilla in the room and I cannot seem to spot him out. As you said, when it finally comes to light, we will prob feel stupid for not having seen it before.

When it comes to the super wealthy and why they would want division. I assume as a reason for takeover. I think when you get so rich that money doesn't matter anymore, then it becomes all about power and influence. What good is billions of dollars if it can't buy you power?

The property values tank...you buy up millions of acres of land for a song and when the shtf, you will now be a new 'Baron" in the new Feudalistic States of America under a yet unnamed Emperor....I'm sure somebody knows their name...just not us yet.

It has to be about power and dominion. Since I have not even the foggiest clue what it is like to be that rich...I can't say what I would do with the money. I'd like to think I'd do good things...but that is prob why I'll never get "that" rich. I have a heart and a conscience...qualities not required or desired in the pursuit of wealth.

reply to post by Jeremiah65

Something just occurred to me...and I wonder if it isn't a part of the picture. I don't know why it didn't cross my mind sooner. No, I'm not claiming the Big Answer..lol...but it's an interesting idea.

I wonder..if these tiny few at the very top of the pyramid actually believe they can control, manage and then restore life from a total collapse? I mean, it would have been like the Roman Empire saying 'Let them come..and let them sack our towns..We shall rebuild stronger and rule them!'. Of course, as history records...those who might have thought anything like that, died with that thought on their mind as the hordes killed them.

So it is...I wonder if they're playing this insane game we're watching under the illusion and delusion that it can be controlled all the way through and back to bring them out on top in absolute power as well as the money they now have. It's crazy and beyond mental to believe that. However, as you say, you've never been remotely rich like that and I know I sure haven't. I don't know HOW money like that thinks and I never will. It could be their thinking....and God help us all if it is. Their Arrogance will finally meet a force that just doesn't care either way.....economic destruction.

I thought about this for another day and started wondering if maybe the conspiracy theory about depopulation might have some truth to it.

Let's face it. Some think the world can physically support 10 billion people. In a perfect Utopia...that might be true. But we don't have that. As modern technology and robotics reduces the need for basic laborers and workers...they fall to the wayside and become "less than productive" parts of society. Each year, automation removes the need for workers t an extent. As time progresses, there are fewer and fewer jobs to go around.

I think everyone dreamed of a day when robots and automation would make everyone's life wonderful. The machines would do all of the work and we would live in wonderful peace and leisure...however...the people that make the machines don't see it that way. The machine works for them, not us.

So on one hand, the problem with economies and unemployment is directly related to the number of people alive and capable of working. Too many people and not enough jobs...simple math.

Maybe the grand plan is to "thin the herd" down. 20 years ago, the population of the USA was much less than it is now and throughout the 90's the unemployment rate wasn't that bad. People did well, they started families and low and behold...their successes has been a part of the failure...how is that for irony?

I still think there is definitely a sinister plot at work. I jump back and forth on what it is because I can't quite figure out the end game. I am convinced though, regardless....it is not going to be good for the average person.

The problem is simply that the average American's IQ is around 65 to 70. Most people in the US are clearly functioning at a borderline level mentally. They simply believe whatever they are told by whatever they personally take to be an authoritative source.