How did people in need get help before Welfare?

Originally posted by calstorm
In the past people had large extended families that were tight nit that helped each other out. Very few people have that anymore. I see the lose of extended families to be on of the major causes of increased poverty and welfare dependence.

Yeah, this is definitely a problem. As people start pulling away from traditional families, churches and close friendships due to part of the liberal agenda they will need to rely more on social welfare. It is much easier to survive when you have a group of people working together than it is to alone.

In my hometown, I know a lot of girls around 22 or 23 who have kids. You know what? They have to work because they are divorced, and take care of their kids by themselves to boot...

Originally posted by JrDavis
Simple, They did what Dr. Ron Paul encouraged. Local community help.

Most slept on the street, received little to no care, and were lucky to get a bit of bread or scraps of food. Many died of starvation, disease, or exposure. I'm not saying that local community didn't help out, but it certainly wasn't prevalent.

well if your talking about before the stock market crash 1929 and After Before FDR signed the Bills


it was Church and Charitys ,, and the Young Old had to fend for themselves tho...

There was pensions back then ,, few The Widows lived off from them when there spouse has Passed

Plus the Rules and Regulations of Hunting Gathering Farming were way differnt then it is now ... for Survival

Try to Fish or Hunt without a Licence & what is claimed,, now out of season .. Fines up the A...
and even Jail Time.. just to feed yourself and family Ironicaly someone is in Jail right now in the County That I Live in ... just to feed his family [[ meat ]]

The Rules back then were not as strict as it is Now ....

its not the Wild Wild West anymore ......


when your run out of Luck and ((((( Options ))))) what do you do.. You Act a Fool in the world of Crime ..


Thank GOD for these Programs Half of the Population of Middle class in America are in partail use of these programs

Its not just for the very poor and has to do with the cost of Living !!! as the Cost of Living does not regulate the same in each County or State in THE US


Especaily in Towns that Loose thier Main Employment Bracket !! say like an Industrial Plant !! that Moved overseas !!! like Mike Moore's First Video ,, Rodger & Me is a Must Watch ..

reply to post by jimmiec


I'm not so sure I agree with the "people care" sentiment. Not back then or today. Not saying that all people don't. I'm sure that a huge amount of people out there would be willing to give someone less fortunate the shirt off their back,..but I don't think they'd be in the majority. Nor were they ever.

Back in the 1800's, one of the main reasons marriage before sex was pushed, was so the man would be responsible for any offspring. The community was NOT going to take care of kids out of wedlock if a man ran off, so it was very adamantly requested that people get married before having kids. That way at least it was documented who the father was, so he would be responsible. This wasn't the only reason of course..there was another major reason - religion. Not much has changed in that area.

Before welfare, many communities had "people auctions". The poor, the mentally ill, the elderly, any and all of those that couldn't take care of themselves, and had no family to do so, were shoved on stage in front of the community. People then took turns bidding on them. Whoever bid the least (as in, "I will take care of this person for X amount of $"), took their poor, or handicap, or elderly person home with them and took care of them. The town then cut them a check for the amount they had bid.

Then we get into the mentally ill. People with severe mental health disorders were simply seen as demon possessed, and would be abused to "beat the devil" out of them.

If a woman was a single mother she had it incredibly hard. No one was looking out for her and she was often ostracized from the "religious" community.

Conditions were not kind to those that were poor, and fewer people truly cared about one another than we may like to believe.

While welfare may not be a perfect system, it is helpful to those that otherwise would go without. Having people leech of the system is a problem, but not one that would be corrected by simply getting rid of welfare.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Most didn't get help. Here is a link to a Library of Congress link to just one work on the period of the 1890's and what life was like for the poor.

It is tempting for us, today, to look back at history and see it through a certain lens. But it isn't an accurate one. The fact is that there were many, many disenfranchised, sick, orphaned, and dying people before our modern age. But it was considered improper to speak of them - thus they have inadequate representation or mention in the historical record.

European countries did slightly better during these periods. But, by no means was life in, say, Ireland or the UK itself anything near humane for the poor.

~Heff

Heff is dead-on right with this one. Thatbsaid, I don't disagree with parts of what the OP Opined (see what I did there? Heh). More doing it "on our own" would be great, and I hope the infrastructure of charity lives on, but it is absolutely true that the poor, etc., are FAR better off now than they once were. Closer families would be great. More involved church communities would be great. Hopefully we can get back to more of that. In the meantime, I'll pass on the mentally ill being locked away in poor conditions, the poor starving like a 3rd-world (mis-used term) nation, and easily curable sick babies suffering and then dying,

Originally posted by jimmiec
Before Welfare there were many organizations that helped those in need. Those more fortunate gave to these organizations to help those less fortunate. This included food/medical/financial aid. It worked well.

Question for the OP......Why do you think it worked well? Any studies to back this up?

Every time I hear people complaining about "welfare for individuals" (as opposed to welfare for corporations) they almost never have any statistics to back it up.

My guess is the OP is from an middle to upper middle class background and just based his post on vague things he heard without any real studies or personal experience.

The Amish are living fossil records of how that was done, as is is done exactly the same today as back in the 19th century.

It's called: family takes care of family, community takes care of all families, individuals work every waking minute for their entire lives to contribute to both.

Without moral and just hearts that only dwell inside of truth every minute, it all falls apart.

We chose lies over truth and instead dwell in ego, sensualities, and hedonism. We chose unwisely. So we live alone, our families hate each other, our communities shoot at each other for drugs to kill the pain of the lonliness.

Originally posted by darkbake

Originally posted by calstorm
In the past people had large extended families that were tight nit that helped each other out. Very few people have that anymore. I see the lose of extended families to be on of the major causes of increased poverty and welfare dependence.

Yeah, this is definitely a problem. As people start pulling away from traditional families, churches and close friendships due to part of the liberal agenda they will need to rely more on social welfare. It is much easier to survive when you have a group of people working together than it is to alone.

In my hometown, I know a lot of girls around 22 or 23 who have kids. You know what? They have to work because they are divorced, and take care of their kids by themselves to boot...

Back then it was good to belong to a fraternity or society like the Masons, there were lot of them back then. Kind of like an insurance company. Of course, needs back then were a lot more simple.

I think in the Great depression there was disease, death, suicide, although that is not what my parents, or anyone that I knew who went through it, talked about.

Most did not get help, and without the tools to fight poverty today you should expect a country full of slums like those found in Africa! Kiss your standard of living goodbye and expect to pay the same or more combating the crime from the shanty towns!





Our way of life is completely dependent upon the tools we use to fight extreme poverty! Personally friend I would rather see a family fed vs. bombs dropped any day of the week. You live in the richest nation in the world yet you wish to see your country men in the dirt!

American slums would be the worst on the planet, or at least the most populous. You need to remember that in this country our distribution of wealth is worse than most banana republics. 2% hold 98% of the country's wealth and monopolists systems have completely destroyed the mom and pop operation.

Why not get on board with Romney. Keep the tax cuts that caused this mess for the top 2% and cut deductions for the middle class to make up the difference.

Fools all of you!

reply to post by jimmiec

When I was a small child, the Coal Mining company would extent credit to families if they neded food or things. When we moved to Northern Indiana, I remember going to the County Trustee, who would provide food, or food vouchers one could take to the grocery store. Churches helped out a lot too in those days, and in general, people were more giving then too, as compared to now.

Apart from historical data such as that in Heff's post, I can't speak to what things were like that long ago. But I can speak to what they were like two or three decades ago, and what they're like today.

As a child I grew up in and out of homeless shelters, on and off the street, and on welfare. I was surrounded daily by countless other families in the same boat. And I can tell you unequivocally that without both foodstamps and welfare we would have been on the street the vast majority of the time, and with very limited recourse in terms of acquiring basic nutrition.

That is not to say that I don't think more of the load shouldn't be shared by local communities and charity. There are great charitable organizations (and individuals) and I literally owe the early years of my life to them. But without the government social programs, they would have been little more than stop gap measures. I didn't starve by and large due to the presence of government cheese (among other foodstuffs.)

That said, I do acknowledge that there are those who take advantage of the system and don't need the assistance as much as others. But these programs, from my direct experience and in my personal opinion, are absolutely essential for a significant population of citizens.

Peace.

reply to post by NaeBabii


Update the Angel food Ministries. They were shut down for fraud by the Feds. They were living high on the hog while receivign federal subsidies.

reply to post by tkwasny


While Amish life may seem ideal to many, the young people are starting to leave in droves because the senior members dictate every waking second of their life. And the community is at the whim of old geezers. The fact that young people have to hide their engagements till the day before they get married, so some old dude doesn't suddenly decide that he doesn't like the matchup and ends the engagement.

Bwahahaha!! Wow it is so fascinating to know of all these people starving to death because there was no welfare. What a crock of poo poo. Welfare enacted in 1935. Let's see what the leading causes of death were in 1900:



Funny I don't see starvation on there anywhere.

And let's check today, WITH welfare it's reported over 15% (33 million) are going hungry. Wow, welfare sure seems to be doing the trick!

reply to post by jjkenobi
Most if not all the top killers you post are linked to poverty and diet. Looks to me like you poo poo'd your own argument.

edit
Just like no one dies of aids no one dies of starvation they die from diseases that starvation weakens the bodies defences too.

reply to post by Hefficide


Hefficide raises a good point.
In fact the 1890s = Great Seattle Fire.
I cannot imagine the plight of the poor after that one!

People moved less back then, so extended family was nearby to help when needed. There was more multi-generational living back then too. Gampa and Grama living with kids etc. so the kids could help support them. Grampa and Grama would help out around the house/farm... Lots of people at least had chickens for meat and eggs. Of course now in a lot of places, that's against the law. I know it is where I live, otherwise I'd have 5 in my backyard now...

But still, we help. My Church has "adopted" a local school. Lots of poorer people and single parent homes. We've done lots of work at the school. We run Bible clubs at the school. This weekend we are going to students homes and helping them start gardens. We purchased a bunch of little desks and lamps so we can set up a study area for the kids. Tomorrow I'm installing security lighting for a famly who has had gas stolen out of their car in the driveway. We also built the kids bookshelves to take home, and supplied them with lots of old books, fiction and non-fiction. Others have formed long term relationships with the kids and their families and are taching the kids how to read and helping with math. It's amazing how a kid can go through grad school and not learn how to read.

After we do out thing with them tomorrow we're supplying the family with lunch and we'll eat together.

In short: show'n the love and helping where it's needed. No strings attached. We just coordinate with the pricipal and ask where the needs are and do our best to fill them.

Most went out and got a job. They swallowed their pride and took a low paying job or two to feed and clothe their families. Now a days PEOPLE are out looking for that dream job that pays 18 and 20 dollars an hour and they don't want to have to work for it.

Originally posted by tkwasny
The Amish are living fossil records of how that was done, as is is done exactly the same today as back in the 19th century.

It's called: family takes care of family, community takes care of all families, individuals work every waking minute for their entire lives to contribute to both.

Without moral and just hearts that only dwell inside of truth every minute, it all falls apart.

We chose lies over truth and instead dwell in ego, sensualities, and hedonism. We chose unwisely. So we live alone, our families hate each other, our communities shoot at each other for drugs to kill the pain of the lonliness.

edit on 18-10-2012 by tkwasny because: Addition

True except they the Amish are being hounded by Rules & regulations by County or State

Extreme Cases of concidered by child protctive services Child Welfare .. Neglect.. of their standered of living Cleaness , Clothing to No Electricity in the Home as what their policy of their religion
is Against ... Here in Upstate New York a Amish went to Jail Trial and the Children was Taken Away beacuse of !!! refusal of Smoke Alarms !! let alone Building Codes !

Originally posted by jimmiec
Before Welfare there were many organizations that helped those in need. Those more fortunate gave to these organizations to help those less fortunate. This included food/medical/financial aid. It worked well. ( the Great Depression was not a good time for anyone) Hospitals frequently performed surgery for free or were paid by donor organizations. There was also a network of non-profit organizations that you could pay into (a very small amount) to get needed help if ever you needed it. It worked very very well. Our government decided that it would take it over and do a better job of it. Big mistake. There are still a few of these organizations left. AA is one. It still does great caring work for free through donations. If America goes bankrupt we will need these programs restarted. The amount of waste having our government handle it is far too excessive. I think America has a lot more caring people than is generally thought. I know many that would take up the challenge if needed and happily so. I know many on ATS do not like church's but they may save us all if America fails. We need to be ready to help those in need if it comes to that.

All I know is that I grew up well below the poverty level. We were lucky to have running water some months let alone electricity. Food stamps? never had them. My family were helped by Churches, Neighbors and the Teamsters Union in it's darkest hours. This kind of community support has taken to the sidelines overall. it exists but not by much. This is why we have a welfare state now. And people abuse it more than ever now to.

Only In America can the poorest of the poor have video game consoles and plasma screen tvs and thousands of dollars worth of name band clothes.

I was so poor that all we could afford was knock off rustler jeans and those things were so stiff that they were already standing and waiting by my bed to get up and walk to school.

More and more Americans are becoming so complacent with the hard times that they are now lazy and fat and just give up. There is no longer that majority that will work 18 hours a day 7 days a week to provide for the family. That core group of Americans is now becoming eroded and the middle class has disappeared.

This America is not the America I was raised to admire. In America, you make your own way and take care of each other. You don't demand entitlements paid by others just because they are better off.

Just because people are financially stable doesn't mean they are all corrupt criminals either and I don't support taxing those who are successful as some sort of punishment.

It's is of course more complicated they will tell you. But the reality is that those who are corrupt and pillage off of others really are not anywhere near that big of a majority. it is us the people who allowed the reigns to slip from our grasps and now we must suffer our own misgivings.

It's time to take back the power in our lives and get motivated and work for our futures and remove the corrupt businessmen and political leadership who would prevent it and then we can provide for ourselves again.

That's the America I know and grew up respecting and loving. It's the core principles of our foundation.