Big Brother Closing In Further - UK Watch

Curfews Already Installed in Bangor Wales

Bangor’s dispersal order makes no such distinction. It decrees that any person under the age of 16 in the designated area between 9pm and 6am is liable for upto three months incarceration or a fine of upto £2500. There is no requirement for the person to be engaged in wrongdoing

www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk...

Communications Data Bill - Gives Rights To Read and Record All Postal Info

So, communications data includes anything written on the outside of the item – which in the case of postcards is, well, the content of the message.

I could post hundreds of these examples, truly amazing!

reply to post by Sinny


Its just becoming the norm. Governments can read peoples email legally now as well, they just arranged it:

arstechnica.com...

In a case decided on Wednesday, the South Carolina Supreme Court ruled that accessing someone’s online e-mail without their permission doesn’t violate the 1986-era Stored Communications Act (SCA).

So now its legal, in case someone objects to the government reading their email.

Originally posted by Fazza!
reply to post by colin42

 

I doubt that they would turn the cards off for any petty misdemeanors. However, if there was a penalty for certain poor behaviour it might discourage people from bending the rules in the first place.

I appreciate that this way of looking at it is not too popular but I feel it adds to the discussion and hopefully gives people a chance to see things from a different point of view

edit on 13/10/2012 by Fazza! because: (no reason given)

The problem you have is this unaccountable, unelected body may deem unacceptable behaviour to be you not shopping at their mall or refusing to be tagged like a fatted cow. Or refusal to go to fight in another illegal war you neither agree with or want.

I agree it is good to have someone play the devils advocate otherwise there is no discussion only agreement.

The overriding factor for me is your/my privacy has a value. Why do you think so many people want to own it? The problem is you are not being given the choice to sell it or even give it away. It is being taken from you without permission and you have no say in how it is used.

reply to post by colin42

The problem you have is this unaccountable, unelected body may deem unacceptable behaviour to be you not shopping at their mall or refusing to be tagged like a fatted cow. Or refusal to go to fight in another illegal war you neither agree with or want.

I just can't see this happening. What punishment could they possibly issue for not shopping at a certain mall? And I can't see conscription coming back to the UK, especially as the government is making military cuts (see Sinny's OP).

The overriding factor for me is your/my privacy has a value. Why do you think so many people want to own it? The problem is you are not being given the choice to sell it or even give it away. It is being taken from you without permission and you have no say in how it is used.

I agree that privacy has a certain value, however I don't believe anyone is trying to 'own' it. People have a choice of whether to sign up for Facebook and social networking sites. They are there to aid communication and social interaction. The ID card that is being proposed could reduce the amount of benefit fraud and number of people claiming while doing nothing to find work and, as far as I tell, would be no different to a passport (as long as the person doesn't use or link it to Facebook).

I don't feel that my privacy is being taken and I wouldn't be too worried if it was. My Facebook profile is public and I have no issues with anyone in government (or otherwise) 'checking up' on me. Exactly how and with what resources they could possibly monitor 62 million people every day is beyond me. My only concern would be that linking online banking and such with social media presents a greater risk of identity theft or straight up online robbery.

reply to post by Fazza!

I just can't see this happening. What punishment could they possibly issue for not shopping at a certain mall? And I can't see conscription coming back to the UK, especially as the government is making military cuts (see Sinny's OP).

You have no control how they use this information against you. Conscription is the logical result of cutting back regular troops. We have even heard the tories talking about a contract with the TA's. This is how it would work not conscription as such but an irregular army. They are in combat now. When will it be your turn?

Once they have full control over you what is to stop them saying something like 'It will do the young good to all join the TA's, teach them a little respect. Sound familiar? The governments are cutting troops not limiting how many wars they get involved in and they don’t intend to be the ones doing the dying that’s for sure.

I agree that privacy has a certain value, however I don't believe anyone is trying to 'own' it.

Then you are not ready to see the truth. Let's hope when you are it is not too late.

People have a choice of whether to sign up for Facebook and social networking sites.

Correct but how many truly know how much of the information they give away freely is stored and used?

The ID card that is being proposed could reduce the amount of benefit fraud and people claiming while doing nothing to find work and as far as I tell, would be no different to a passport (as long as it isn't linked to the person's Facebook).

The ID card may do all those things but you are allowing those in charge to blind you to the world you live in. Benefit fraud is a mere drop in the ocean to the money that is not collected by the taxman from the rich (around 175 billion every year in this country) yet you do not see this being applied to those do you.

This government and any of the others have destroyed jobs and intend to destroy more in the coming months. Only 3% of the intended cuts have been implemented. They are removing employment rights despite this country having the worst employment rights in the EU and that includes Germany. Yet you appear to blame the jobless and not those cutting jobs to feed their own personal greed. The very people that do not pay their taxes.

I don't feel that my privacy is being taken and I wouldn't be too worried if it was. My Facebook profile is public and I would have no issues with anyone in government (or otherwise) 'checking up' on me.

You’re too focused on face book. Every time you use your credit card, every time you use an oyster card, buy a season ticket to a certain football club. Join a political party or union somewhere that information is stored. They don’t store it as a hobby. Some number crunching machine is building a picture of you without permission or controls.

Knowledge is power and they are gaining knowledge about you with every purchase you make and you don’t even know who they are and in fact are not allowed to know who they are.

Exactly how and with what resources they could monitor 62 million people every day is beyond me.

It is beyond me as well but sadly not beyond those that use this information. You must be new to this site as there are many examples of just that.

My only concern would be that linking online banking and such with social media presents a greater risk of identity theft or straight up online robbery.

I have already written that this is exactly what is happening but you are seeing the wrong villains. You can protect yourself against me stealing your identity but you have no way to protect your identity being stolen by the government/corporations and banks and worse they have full control of the off button and delete button.

Do you really trust the likes of cameron, miiliband and clegg? Surely you don’t trust the bankers and corporations that care only about profit and personal wealth at any cost?

I don't think the UK does anything more slier than the US. Its just the people in the UK are just obsessed about discussing American issues that they forget that London is completely covered in cameras and stuff like that.

Hey, it’s all in the name of protecting you from the terrorists! Haha. I’d be happy to take my chances than deal with this nonsense. If terrorists as they say actually exist and they don’t like our freedom and they want it extinguished, have they not won with measures like these? 4.2m cameras... Shown to have no significant preventative measures against crime. How many shops and petrol stations have cameras, yet are still robbed? There’s an outcry for more in Melbourne after the terrible Jill Meagher incident. However, it isn’t difficult for a criminal to get an inexpensive yet effective mask to hide their face. I suppose masks of all kinds will be outlawed in the near future?

PRIVATISING.......Another word for cronyism of the worst sort......where those in power set their friends up in lucrative essential services.....and a sure indication prices for the public service, will now rise spectacularly, and regularly, with a decline in actual services provided.
How can it be reasoned that having PROFITS taken from a public service venue....could be of benefit to the public?

reply to post by colin42

'It will do the young good to all join the TA's, teach them a little respect. Sound familiar? The governments are cutting troops not limiting how many wars they get involved in and they don’t intend to be the ones doing the dying that’s for sure.

It sounds like something the older guys say about teenagers but nothing is ever done about it. I agree that kids are becoming ever more unruly, it's like the government is stuck in the need to balance freedom with policing and control. I highly doubt they will force people to sign up - the whole purpose of the TA is that it's voluntary. At best, they could spend more on advertising and glamorising the armed forces so that people chose to enlist but again I feel this is unlikely. They simply don't need large numbers of frontline troops - UAVs and robot vehicles will be able to do most of the work in the future.

People have a choice of whether to sign up for Facebook and social networking sites.

Correct but how many truly know how much of the information they give away freely is stored and used?

Does it really matter? It's not like they are putting their bank card number on there and if someone is really concerned about their privacy, they simply won't sign up to Facebook.

Benefit fraud is a mere drop in the ocean to the money that is not collected by the taxman from the rich (around 175 billion every year in this country) yet you do not see this being applied to those do you.

I do hear about it being applied and while I don't necessarily think it's fair, I feel it's not so much of a problem because they still have more than enough money to comfortably survive on. Yes, many rich people have worked really hard and it's a shame that they lose such a high chunk of their salary but it's not going to make their lifestyles in any way worse off.

you appear to blame the jobless and not those cutting jobs to feed their own personal greed.

I wasn't blaming the jobless, I was outlining an example of one benefit to the ID scheme. My comment was focused on those claiming benefits fraudulently (faking illnesses for example) or doing absolutely nothing to find work. I have no problem with someone claiming and genuinely doing there best to get a job when there aren't many out there. Jobs are cut because we have technology that enables the work to be done with a lower number of human resources.

You’re too focused on face book. Every time you use your credit card, every time you use an oyster card, buy a season ticket to a certain football club.

I focused on what applies to me personally. Facebook and Twitter are the two primary social networking sites and Twitter, being much less sophisticated, allows users to have a great deal of annonymity (random screen names, locations and bios). Having said that, to sign up for Facebook doesn't actually require that people use their real name, DoB etc. People chose to upload this information so that their friends know who they are.

I use a debit card to buy things, a driving license to prove my age to get into clubs and a Tesco clubcard to get points from my petrol. That's it. Passport, NI card, NHS number are locked away safe at home and practically never used.

Knowledge is power and they are gaining knowledge about you with every purchase you make and you don’t even know who they are and in fact are not allowed to know who they are.

Again, does it matter? I have no problem with 'them' seeing what I purchase. Anyone in the shop can see what I'm purchasing when I take it to the checkout. The data 'they' store is not there to be used against us, but rather to help link us to products 'they' recommend based on recent purchases (it generates business).

You must be new to this site as there are many examples of just that.

Nope. Been a lurker since 2009, member since 3rd April 2010. Though admittedly I tend to avoid political and civil unrest forums.

Do you really trust the likes of cameron, miiliband and clegg? Surely you don’t trust the bankers and corporations that care only about profit and personal wealth at any cost?

No, I don't trust them but there's nothing I can do about it. Technologies are going to get increasingly more powerful (perhaps at the cost of our privacy) but I don't see it as a bad thing. I am happy to embrace these changes and adapt to them. I certainly won't lose any sleep over the thought that somene in government is reading about my favourite bands or looking at my drunken photos on Facebook.

reply to post by Sinny


they shepherd the sheeple to twit and facebook for a reason

reply to post by Fazza!


unknowing child

reply to post by Fazza!

It sounds like something the older guys say about teenagers but nothing is ever done about it.

Your very trusting

I agree that kids are becoming ever more unruly, it's like the government is stuck in the need to balance freedom with policing and control.

I never said kids are becoming more unruly but if you take away their future dont be suprised when they act like they dont have one.

I highly doubt they will force people to sign up - the whole purpose of the TA is that it's voluntary. At best, they could spend more on advertising and glamorising the armed forces so that people chose to enlist but again I feel this is unlikely.

Look back at our history. You may change your mind.

Does it really matter?

Yes

It's not like they are putting their bank card number on there and if someone is really concerned about their privacy, they simply won't sign up to Facebook.

They dont have to. That information is gathered eslwhere.

I do hear about it being applied and while I don't necessarily think it's fair, I feel it's not so much of a problem because they still have more than enough money to comfortably survive on.

You have heard it is being applied to tax? Explain why 175 billion in uncollected taxes is expected to rise next year due to the reduction in tax collectors.

Yes, many rich people have worked really hard and it's a shame that they lose such a high chunk of their salary but it's not going to make their lifestyles in any way worse off.

We all work very hard for the money we earn but the percentage tax take is much higher in the groups that earn the least. That affects the lifestyles of the poor dramatically.

I wasn't blaming the jobless, I was outlining an example of one benefit to the ID scheme. My comment was focused on those claiming benefits fraudulently (faking illnesses for example) or doing absolutely nothing to find work.

Yep, so blaming the poor and jobless without giving the excesses of the rich a thought. Seems like a fair outlook.

Jobs are cut because we have technology that enables the work to be done with a lower number of human resources.

Please tell me why you think making people jobless to increase the profits of the rich is good for the country?

No, I don't trust them but there's nothing I can do about it.

someone said something like. When people believe democracy has failed then democracy is lost. Of course you can do something about it. The OP is, I am. Find what you are passionate about and get involved.

Technologies are going to get increasingly more powerful (perhaps at the cost of our privacy) but I don't see it as a bad thing. I am happy to embrace these changes and adapt to them. I certainly won't lose any sleep over the thought that somene in government is reading about my favourite bands or looking at my drunken photos on Facebook.

Then go back to sleep and twitter away. Your not ready yet. You have the gift but your waiting for something. Thats the way it works.

Peace

Two items to mull over; a guy in America had his facebook page used against him in a court of law, a guy in the UK had his MP threaten him with the police because the MP did not like the third party emails he sent the MP. (MP Member of Parliament).

reply to post by colin42

It's not like they are putting their bank card number on there and if someone is really concerned about their privacy, they simply won't sign up to Facebook.

They dont have to. That information is gathered eslwhere.

It's almost unavoidable then?

You have heard it is being applied to tax? Explain why 175 billion in uncollected taxes is expected to rise next year due to the reduction in tax collectors.

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Perhaps people cheating the system to avoid paying taxes? I don't know, I don't have an answer for it. My contribution to this thread was initially to show some support for the online ID scheme. I don't cheat the system. I pay the taxes I owe.

Please tell me why you think making people jobless to increase the profits of the rich is good for the country?

I didn't say that and I appologise if my comment came across that way.

Find what you are passionate about and get involved.

That's genuinely great if you take part in protests and are passionate about that. I guess I'm just more focused on the things I enjoy like playing music, skateboarding, the great outdoors. I haven't personally [yet] experienced the negative effects of the way this country is being run and living in a fairly rural area, I'm much less aware of it. Maybe it is youthful naivety. I appreciate that it was risky for me to post in a political forum and I'm clearly a lot less educated on this subject than many other members here. Cheers for at least being civil and having a decent discussion about it


reply to post by laserjeff


Rather than posting an inane one liner you could perhaps use your knowledge to contribute to the thread?

reply to post by Fazza!

It's almost unavoidable then?

Yep unless we stand against it now and get controls in place.

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Perhaps people cheating the system to avoid paying taxes? I don't know, I don't have an answer for it.

This (175 billion) does not include those cheating the tax system it is those that decide not to bother to pay taxes or believe they are too big to pay taxes. The answer to it is to insist they do. That will not happen by cutting the number of tax collectors. Oops they all ready cut them.

My contribution to this thread was initially to show some support for the online ID scheme. I don't cheat the system. I pay the taxes I owe.

Friend if I have given the impression I doubted your honesty I apologise as that was not my intention. The vast majority of us have no choice but to pay our taxes PAYE. Those that earn the most do not. They pay very little or none at all which is why we have to pay the lion’s share of our wages. That cannot be fair. Made worse by targeting and demonising the poor.

I didn't say that and I apologise if my comment came across that way.

Again I am not having a go at you and you have nothing to apologise for. Your sig says you are a drummer. With today’s tech we can do without a drummer, we have beat boxes. My point is will your band be better without you even though your band will earn more money per person?

Look if a company makes boxes for new televisions employs 60 people. The company pays min wage while it saves up for a machine that makes boxes 24/7. Once the machine is in place not only the 60 people directly employed lose their jobs but other workers in box companies that cannot compete. So hundreds of people are made jobless so that one person can make a bigger profit. The very people that buy the TV's.

So now due to the drop in sales the TV Company decides to install a machine that makes TV's and makes its workers jobless who also now cannot buy TV’s?

So now we have many people that do not have jobs, a continuous fall in TV sales so less boxes needed. Everyone is a loser. This cannot be sustained yet it is the path we have followed blindly for years. Who is going to stop this madness if not us?

That's genuinely great if you take part in protests and are passionate about that. I guess I'm just more focused on the things I enjoy like playing music, skateboarding, the great outdoors. I haven't personally [yet] experienced the negative effects of the way this country is being run and living in a fairly rural area, I'm much less aware of it. Maybe it is youthful naivety. I appreciate that it was risky for me to post in a political forum and I'm clearly a lot less educated on this subject than many other members here. Cheers for at least being civil and having a decent discussion about it

Hey I respect our youth. Of course you have other things to focus on, getting laid and Babington was mine.

All I can tell you is what I already did. You are not ready yet, that is not an insult but I would add every part of your life is affected by politics whether you realise it or not, you cannot escape it and you should so post and read in a political forum and the fact you have tells me your eyes are opening. Above all you have nothing to feel guilty about or apologise for.
Musicians have made some of the most cutting political statements in a way no other people can. Chin up, all is not lost.

reply to post by colin42

Your sig says you are a drummer. With today’s tech we can do without a drummer, we have beat boxes. My point is will your band be better without you even though your band will earn more money per person?

I am a drummer and that's something I've been exploring recently. The majority of chart tracks utilise drum software but almost all of the artists (One Direction, Jessie J, Rihanna as examples) perform with live musicians. It adds to the show. I'm pretty experienced with the software and often create my drum tracks digitally to save studio costs. Most non-drummer musicians and engineers would struggle to render a realistic and unique sounding drum track this way. A lot of producers (particularly in rock music) actually prefer to record a live drummer in a studio, even though the costs are significantly higher. It gives the song a bit of personality and makes it sound less clinical. A catchy, organic, in-the-pocket drum track is prized highly so us drummers aren't done just yet

So now we have many people that do not have jobs, a continuous fall in TV sales so less boxes needed. Everyone is a loser. This cannot be sustained yet it is the path we have followed blindly for years. Who is going to stop this madness if not us?

This is a huge problem. I see no way around it other than people finding careers in a different vocation. Arts, sport, music and television will always require human resources.

All I can tell you is what I already did. You are not ready yet, that is not an insult but I would add every part of your life is affected by politics whether you realise it or not, you cannot escape it and you should so post and read in a political forum and the fact you have tells me your eyes are opening. Above all you have nothing to feel guilty about or apologise for.

That's a very fair comment

reply to post by Sinny


Had to activate the GPS location on my new moble internet modem or it wouldn't load the drivers.

That happened first this year in the US.

Ubiquitous cameras in the US beginning

reply to post by Fazza!


Please show me your drunken photos and a link to your Facebook profile.

Also if possible, please can I read your personal e-mails.

Thanks.

Double post

reply to post by Kram09


Facebook

You won't be able to read my private messages but you will be able to see photos & comments that people have left on my wall.

In fact if you really want me to prove my point by screenshotting my PM folder I have no problems with doing that.