Abe Foxman's ADL, "interfaith dialogue" means Christian leaders must shut up about Israeli crimes

reply to post by neo96

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by neo96

 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Probably cuase America also stole all the land it currently owns from those mexicans and the native americans who lived here?!

Just a thought.

No land that is under control of anaybody was taken by 'legitimate' means. To draw a line in the sand and claim ownership of it is nonsense.

~Tenth

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 10/13/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

The native American did not think they owned the land that was a "european" construct.

reply to post by neo96


Yup, doesn't mean they don't consider themselves cheated out of their ancestral homeland though .

Again, ALL land ownership is a social construct, and a bad one at that.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by neo96

 

Yup, doesn't mean they don't consider themselves cheated out of their ancestral homeland though

.

Again, ALL land ownership is a social construct, and a bad one at that.

~Tenth

The way I see it no American has any "moral high ground" considering those actions are why we all exist today.

Considering our own history who are we to tell another country what to do?

That is what people go around calling "neocon" on these boards.

reply to post by neo96


Oh than we agree.

Sorry I misread what you were implying. I think it's nonsense that anybody can take moral highground when it comes to stolen land..

Also considering the complexities of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict; it's not just a black and white affair.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by neo96

 

. I think it's nonsense that anybody can take moral highground when it comes to stolen land..


~Tenth

Then you must not have studied this conflict very long. Because despite 'stealing' that land, Israelis have the moral high ground(and rightfully so).

reply to post by GeneralMishka


Yup, you can justify murder and human rights violations all you want my friend.

It's still genocide, it's still murder.

Both parties are to blame, equally. To attempt to say that Israel some how has the right to carry on an open aired prison is nonsense. To say that Palestinians have a right to use violence as a means of protest is also nonsense.

Sorry.

But that's what blind faith and unwaivering support for something you don't understand gets you.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by GeneralMishka

 

Yup, you can justify murder and human rights violations all you want my friend.

It's still genocide, it's still murder.

Both parties are to blame, equally. To attempt to say that Israel some how has the right to carry on an open aired prison is nonsense. To say that Palestinians have a right to use violence as a means of protest is also nonsense.

Sorry.

But that's what blind faith and unwaivering support for something you don't understand gets you.

~Tenth

edit on 10/13/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

While the Israeli high ground is relative, the blame is not equal.

Does all this blather not take away from the central point? No matter the socio-political aspects of this debate, the crucial thing here is that Israel seems incapable of responding to a legitimate criticism of its military policy, and the way it handles its border areas (contested land). Not only that, but Israel is trying to deflect a reasonable, and completely legitimate challenge without resorting to officially recognising its actual content, or responding to its claims.

Instead it offers nothing but rhetoric and hot air. Even more ammusing since the organisation they are shouting the odds at, was not talking to them, but to the US government in requesting that an investigation be launched. Whether or not that investigation takes place ought to be nothing to do with the Israelis, and is the sole responsibility of the US government to determine. It may become Israel's business if, and when it becomes a reality, and not before. The fact that they even seek to comment, and in such a hamfisted way seems highly improper.

Also, to the poster who suggested that protestants have the decency not to hide thier anti semitism, I must confess this is the most outrageous, and outraging statement I have heard for an awfully long time. An awful lot of protestants gave thier lives to save the Jews in the Second World War. A damn sight more of them paid the ultimate price to prevent more massacres than any member of the thrice damned bloody (un)Holy Roman Catholic Church ever did. Bloody pope could have condemned the behavior of the Nazis, and did not one blasted thing, because his faith was weak.

No one who believes in Jesus Christ and has a genuine relationship with God through him, can ever be an anti semite. It is anti Christian to be an anti semite.

israel should trade the west bank and gaza for peace.

there are two ways of looking at it. God gave them that land, so they are free to give it to the palestinians without guilt and as a token of friendship and peace to arabs.

second, its Gods land, so no human has a right to spill blood it or fight over it. each community should respect each other and administer themselves.

and others shouldn't try to rule over another group.

the problem with israel is they don't want to give the land back. 40+ years of occupation, with non stop expanding pretty much outlines their position.

and when they get "close" they add so many incredible and ridiculous conditions that you'd have to be insane to except them. like having no army.

This will be a bit long. Please read it all: I hope that what I am about to say is not too awfully off topic but this thread deals with, at least loosely, some of my concerns, and fears concerning the current times, and the implications that they produce. I have listened to so many people claiming to know the truth and have had my paradigm shattered over, and over, and over. I was raised as a christian and became an apostate at the age of nineteen. I became a theistic satanist, literally worshiping Lucifer, and his demons. Over time I inevitably ran into the topic of vampires, the Illuminati, Bill Schoeblen (I could have done without running into him.), and of course David Icke. I have listened to Alex Collier, Stewart Swerdlow, Bill Cooper, and a myriad of others. I have gone from believing in demons, to believing in aliens, and finally to believing in extradimensional influences on Earth. The things that are here are "alien" but they are not as simple as intergalactic visitors.

My dilemma is that this has implied several things: Christianity could be true, Islam could be true, Judaism could be true, New Age could be true, or we could all be insane, and the evolutionist atheists could be true. I have gone through several conversions to Christianity over the past three years, becoming "saved", and then rejecting the "holy spirit" over, and over, and over. I have felt the light, warmth, and "redeeming grace"of whatever this presence is several times, and it is difficult to expel. This will sound strange but I have had to invoke dark rituals in order to do this. I am not talking about killing infants or anything fantastical, but merely an auditory denial of Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Father, followed by a pact with Satan signed in my own blood, drenched in water, and buried beneath the Earth. The first time I did a ritual like this, I burned the contract. The second time I used water and earth rather than fire and air. The third time I was so jaded to the process that it was fairly easy to expel my "Christian programming."

I have become hardened towards Christianity, more, and more with each act of apostasy, and now I am incapable of feeling remorse for any of my sins. I am able to look at the situation in this world from a non-biased point of view towards God and the Illuminati. On one hand we have the NWO/Illuminati/PTB/whatever that have sadistic, brutal, and deadly plans for this world. The antichrist could arise as a part of their agenda, whomever he may be, and then the Christian Book of Revelations would begin playing out. I fear this because if Christianity is true, I have already become incapable of feeling remorse for my sins, and believe me when I say that I feel NOTHING but anger towards God, and his wrath. I do not feel sorry, I do not feel guilty, simply because I have dissected the act of becoming "saved" so many times that I feel like an expert on the process. I have felt this.. redemption and cast it away many times as I said. I have no hope of becoming "saved" again due to my inability to feel guilty for anything called "sin" in the Bible.

I am not afraid of going to hell but what does scare me is the fact that my entire family is "saved." I mean all of them, every single last one with the exception of extended family on my mother's side. My father's extended family are all christians. That means that if the christians are right, I will spend my eternity away from them, at the mercy of a wrathful God who despises me and everything I stand for. I am as the fallen angels, too far gone to desire forgiveness, or to care about God's will. I only care about survival, my loved ones, and the avoidance of suffering. I am aware of what may happen to me after death and there is nothing that I can do about it. Try as I might, I cannot explain this sufficiently enough for christians to understand my plight, because they insist that I can still be saved. You have no idea what is inside of me. I hardly feel anything left of who I used to be, as if most of my soul has been replaced with something else, like a deep, perpetual hatred, and scorn towards God. I despise God and I feel as if I should elaborate on that:

God created me knowing before I was born exactly what I was going to do. Each of us plays out a script during our lives doing exactly what God knew we would do. Instead of being merciful, I was allowed to exist anyways, damned from birth to commit certain sins, and to ultimately forfeit every chance at paradise. I am #ed, capital F #ed. You cannot possibly comprehend what it feels like to know that there is absolutely no hope unless there is some third option that I am not aware of. On one side I have the Illuminati and on the other side there is God. Both factions have nothing but destruction and torment planned for me but at least the Illuminati will eventually kill me. There is no glory in this eventual death, only the promise of hell, because I chose knowledge over love. Cont'd.

Look at the old testament and observe the wrath of God in action: Babies whole sale slaughtered, the entire earth flooded, with millions dead, and of course billions of souls predestined to live, die and go to eternal torment in the lake of fire after a humiliating judgment. I am done debating the morality of God because it doesn't matter. An omnipotent force has demanded worship under pain of eternal damnation and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. Lucifer has failed me, I have failed myself, and I cannot focus on anything but wrath. I will never see my family again after judgment day comes, as God will strip them from me, and cast me into hell. I will then be cast into eternal darkness, annihilation, or whatever awaits the "unsaved' at the end. I have already pondered the bitter reality that I was born into: I had no choice in being born, I had no choice in what the character of God would be like, and God deals in absolutes. There is no gray area with God. You are either his slave or his enemy and the Illuminati feels the same way, albeit slave, and enemy mean the same thing to them.

I apologize if I sound bat # crazy but this is my story in a nut shell. I could write pages of philosophical pondering, pointing out the ruthless tyranny of God versus the tyranny of the Illuminati, but it would be fruitless. The FACT of the matter is that I have come to understand that there is no such thing as unconditional love. The most powerful forces in all of reality are both destructive, and they are both against each other, with humanity caught in the middle. There is no hope of a third choice because there is no "third" in duality. Duality is two and that is what we have here, only the second half of the duality has no hope for victory. God wins by default no matter what and I have no hope of reconciliation now, because I do not DESIRE reconciliation. It is difficult to explain. I do not feel evil, just angry, and helpless. This is a condition of the soul and only those who believe in the soul can understand. The end times are nothing but pain and agony for people like me. I am already in hell. I have no idea why I exist, but it could possibly be for God's own amusement, or as an example to Christians of what NOT to do. In that case I am a tool to be used, nothing but a shill, and I will be cast into the fire when I am used up.

Is there a way to escape reality? Probably not. We are stuck here because apparently there are no alternate universes.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Perhaps I should had been alot clearer, the leaders of the Protestant AND Catholic Church (includes the Vatican) ARE indeed anti-semitic and it's not a generalized statement. It's fact.

The leaders of the Jewish Elite and Orthodox Synagogues are also anti-Gentile. Thats also fact.

reply to post by bluemirage5


If only I could believe what you say. The church that my parents go to is very much pro-jew to the point that they consider themselves inferior to them. That is hardly anti-jew. If the leaders of the churches are anti-jew then it means that their entire religion could be gutted and debunked. The jewish faith is the cornerstone of their faith. Perhaps I could calm down some if I discovered that christianity is utterly false but everything I have been told that supposedly debunks christianity has turned out to be easily refuted.

reply to post by randomname


I learned the hard way along time Peace always comes at a huge risky price and even then one side always breaks their end of the deal.

Israel can reach a peaceful agreement today with the Palestinians - but it will come back and bite Israel on the butt big time.

reply to post by Seeker10001


I don't care what a man or woman's religious beliefs are means zero to me probably because I've seen racism inside amongst many churches and synagogues. I've heard enough anti-semitism and anti-Gentile over the many years to know where they all stand. This does'nt exclude what the mosques also teaches.

I belong to a Commonwealth nation and if anyone (and I don't care who they are) don't like us, they can go home!

reply to post by bluemirage5


I get what you mean. Honestly I have found reasons not to believe in their religion but the world keeps on going where all these modern day prophets say that it's going. Do you think that it's all a huge scheme to create division? Playing out religious prophecies, pitting races, and religions against each other, making multiple conspiracy theories seem simultaneously true, all the while keeping the real agenda hidden? In that case all religions are false and knowledge of the truth about God is not necessary to prevent eternal suffering or to even bring peace on earth. I would love to believe that the true cure for all of this madness is to accept differences, I really do, because it would be so simple.

The Zionists in Israel are actively committing genocide, that is why people speak against Zionism... including Jewish people, including Israeli citizens!

Zionism in fact began in tandem with National Socialists in Germany in the 1930's and worked hand in hand with the Gestapo to establish themselves as an alien minority within the German State and to implement policies to re-educate German-Jews to accept themselves as foreign nationals. They applauded laws that criminalized marriage and other common relations between the recently separated races. They did this to employ aid from the Hitler and the SS in emigrating out of Germany and into Palestine. In other words, Zionists helped usher in the Holocaust.

Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, maintained that anti-Semitism is not an aberration, but a natural and completely understandable response by non-Jews to alien Jewish behavior and attitudes. The only solution, he argued, is for Jews to recognize reality and live in a separate state of their own. "The Jewish question exists wherever Jews live in noticeable numbers," he wrote in his most influential work, The Jewish State. "Where it does not exist, it is brought in by arriving Jews ... I believe I understand anti-Semitism, which is a very complex phenomenon. I consider this development as a Jew, without hate or fear." The Jewish question, he maintained, is not social or religious. "It is a national question. To solve it we must, above all, make it an international political issue ..." Regardless of their citizenship, Herzl insisted, Jews constitute not merely a religious community, but a nationality, a people, a Volk. /2 Zionism, wrote Herzl, offered the world a welcome "final solution of the Jewish question."/3

Six months after Hitler came to power, the Zionist Federation of Germany (by far the largest Zionist group in the country) submitted a detailed memorandum to the new government that reviewed German-Jewish relations and formally offered Zionist support in "solving" the vexing "Jewish question." The first step, it suggested, had to be a frank recognition of fundamental national differences: /4

Institute for Historical Review

Nothing has changed in Zionism since it began.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Abe Foxman's ADL, "interfaith dialogue" means Christian leaders must shut up about Israeli crimes

uruknet.info

Leading pro-Israel lobby group the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has angrily pulled out of a national "interfaith" dialogue scheduled for later this month, because some of the Protestant faith leaders who planned to attend had the temerity to write a letter to Congress asking that US aid to Israel be reviewed for compliance with the US Foreign Assistance Act and the US Arms Export Control Act in light of Israel’s extensively documented human rights violations.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Not a surprise to me about the ADL pulling a stunt like this. I've always found it interesting that they're all for freedom and equality in the US, but they 100% support Israel having no equality and no separation of church and state. If you go to their website and dig around- you'll see that's absolutely the case with them. You see, they don't care about anything except their own interests. It's as simple as that.

reply to post by Seeker10001


This has been going on since the beginning of time, hatred and genocide has and will continue to raise it's ugly head probably until the end of time.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe in the 10 Commandments of Torah and God however through my eyes I no longer identify people by their religion because almost all of them don't practice their religion nor practice what they preach until it suits them. Many will keep "their" traditions - usually for show but thats where it stops. We are simply all just people from different parts of the world trying to survive another day.

There is nothing unique about the Christian Bible, Qu'ran or even Torah. They all steemed from a variety of ancient belief systems cleverly put together from knowledge of the Zoroastrians, Sumarians, Mayans, Aztecs, Incas, Egyptians etc.