Evolution and Creationism is easy as math.

I am not going to argue why evolution is a proven fact and the bible is a proven myth. Why? Because the answers are all over the place. If you have an open mind you will search and accept the answers provided. Based on the information you should be able to make the same conclusion I have made. If not, then I have an explanation.

When you were in school did they have three different levels of math such as Basic, Intermediate, and Advanced? Mine did and I went to Advanced. I like to think of the old debate like the levels of math. To understand evolution is like going to Advanced math; it is complicated science that requires a deep level of understanding and the ability to process advanced information. To understand basic math is like believing in the bible; you know only as much as you heard or were told and you accept it as is- no questions asked. Life for you is just a bunch of addition and multiplication problems.

Here is my point: Just because you don't understand Advanced math does not mean it does not exist or is not true! Trust me, Advanced math- evolution is real and it is sound. Take the time to learn it. If you have a question about it or don't quite grasp a concept then don't stop there. Ask the question, Google it. You will find the answer.

You can either take the the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. Or you can take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Here is some basic maths
0 + 0 = Everything, all the matter in the universe, life, feelings, everything. All the elements in the elemental table, everything seen and unseen.
From nothing
from zero

and thats logical to you, you believe that

And you think you are clever, seems to me its back to pre school maths for you. did you even learn basic maths?

Just a little lesson for you in basic maths
0 + 0 = 0, try work from there
Its tricky for some I know but think about it, ask for help if you need to.
0 + 0 = 0
its true, its true

reply to post by Dynamike


Hold on Maths is easy? Tell that to my Trig teacher at school lol.
BTW I agree with everything you have said

reply to post by borntowatch


Something can indeed come from nothing

But then DNA is a language. It's information. And a cell is an ifnormation processor. Information can only come from a mind.

The laws of the universe came from somewhere, and our universe is fine tuned for life to exist, even if you believe in a multi-verse and believe that we are one of an infinite number of universes each one with different laws of physics and this one is right for us because we are here to measure it, the odds of there being a creator still is more likely.

This is because, if our universe is one of many, and intelligent life in our universe is common (which it probably is) then this life in the vastness of the universe would have created simulations of life on computers. These computers would eventually be clever enough to create a simulation of a simulation and so on. So the odds of our universe being a simulation is a huge probability and therefore we would have a creator that would exist outside of our universe and the laws of our universe and we would never be able to understand measure or determine the nature of this creator however the creator could contact us and guide us in our world.

www.simulation-argument.com...

reply to post by Dynamike


Agree, disagree, it makes little difference. That entire post seemed like some passive aggressive, light lipped and loose tongued, angst filled pseudo rant, designed to do nothing more than stir up strife and stroke an ego. However, I digress, I read carefully, and then fell flat out fetal when the murder me shaking began. Clawing eyes and scratching face. Turned over turn, in chaotic loss of motor security. Pounding fists into knees, playing mantras in a garbled skull. "You will not go chill. You will not turn phantom. Damn it to oblivion, gimme the blade and blood."

The incessant, vain repetition, of these arguments over creation/evolution do nothing save divide the people on yet one more issue. What does it matter if I believe the Bible? What does it matter if I believe the theory of evolution? We all bleed the same blood. We're all stitched into the same cloth. We have no idea what we really are, let alone where we came from, or the manner by which our beginnings were generated. We're just here, trudging along under the weight of a system designed to keep us impoverished. If the people need hope, and they find it in the tomes of the ancients, so be it. Let them breathe easy.

Please don't think I'm being rude...I'm just so very tired. I watched the debates tonight/last night. It made no difference, those multitude of empty words. No difference, that all those quirky smiles and gaffes sparkled in the skulls of those rooked by the dichotomy, and delusion of the validity, of a two party system. It seems that Ohio and Florida will now decide the fate of Persia. It seems that there's still going to be more of the perpetual repetition of the blood stained Hegelian dialectic: thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Generate problem, promulgate reaction, enact desired solution. The same tools used to browbeat and heap folly upon the back of a broken populace, like the roaches in New York City tenement houses, since the Sumerians produced a cohesive civilization. The truth of it is though...that bunk was funny. Malarkey is now my favorite word.

I just want everyone to be. Smile.
Peace and Paisley buttons.

Jesus/Charlie Chaplin 2012.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Here is some basic maths
0 + 0 = Everything, all the matter in the universe, life, feelings, everything. All the elements in the elemental table, everything seen and unseen.
From nothing
from zero

and thats logical to you, you believe that

And you think you are clever, seems to me its back to pre school maths for you. did you even learn basic maths?

Just a little lesson for you in basic maths
0 + 0 = 0, try work from there
Its tricky for some I know but think about it, ask for help if you need to.
0 + 0 = 0
its true, its true

edit on 12-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

You don't know that there ever was "nothing" or "0"

So get off your soap box and stop trying to condescend to someone who doesn't believe in your mythology

Originally posted by MercuryField
reply to post by Dynamike

 

Agree, disagree, it makes little difference. That entire post seemed like some passive aggressive, light lipped and loose tongued, angst filled pseudo rant, designed to do nothing more than stir up strife and stroke an ego. However, I digress, I read carefully, and then fell flat out fetal when the murder me shaking began. Clawing eyes and scratching face. Turned over turn, in chaotic loss of motor security. Pounding fists into knees, playing mantras in a garbled skull. "You will not go chill. You will not turn phantom. Damn it to oblivion, gimme the blade and blood."

The incessant, vain repetition, of these arguments over creation/evolution do nothing save divide the people on yet one more issue. What does it matter if I believe the Bible? What does it matter if I believe the theory of evolution? We all bleed the same blood. We're all stitched into the same cloth. We have no idea what we really are, let alone where we came from, or the manner by which our beginnings were generated. We're just here, trudging along under the weight of a system designed to keep us impoverished. If the people need hope, and they find it in the tomes of the ancients, so be it. Let them breathe easy.

Please don't think I'm being rude...I'm just so very tired. I watched the debates tonight/last night. It made no difference, those multitude of empty words. No difference, that all those quirky smiles and gaffes sparkled in the skulls of those rooked by the dichotomy, and delusion of the validity, of a two party system. It seems that Ohio and Florida will now decide the fate of Persia. It seems that there's still going to be more of the perpetual repetition of the blood stained Hegelian dialectic: thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Generate problem, promulgate reaction, enact desired solution. The same tools used to browbeat and heap folly upon the back of a broken populace, like the roaches in New York City tenement houses, since the Sumerians produced a cohesive civilization. The truth of it is though...that bunk was funny. Malarkey is now my favorite word.

I just want everyone to be. Smile.
Peace and Paisley buttons.

Jesus/Charlie Chaplin 2012.

You should get see a psychiatrist

reply to post by Dynamike


Yet, in all our wisdom, we have demonstrated mathematically that all of our axioms are based on yet higher axioms that are unknown. Advanced math is simply basic math to a higher axiom when more excluded middles are found. At the heart of our reality there exists information and mathematics which are governed. The God that created it all make it simple enough for even the least among us to see clearly.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

What do you do, in all your wisdom, to produce the world around you? Apart from thought and movement, you do none of it. You do not make your eyes see, your hair grow, the Earth turn, the sun shine or any of the other trillion things that produce your existence. You think and you move. Come back again against God when you can demonstrate mathematically more than two things that you do to produce your existence that do not involve thought and movement. I challenge you to name even one.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Cast a shadow.

I know, that's as weak as the economy, but I had to try.

Originally posted by Hawking


You don't know that there ever was "nothing" or "0"

So get off your soap box and stop trying to condescend to someone who doesn't believe in your mythology

No I dont, thats what scientists say, not point grizzling at me. I dont believe in the big bang, I dont believe in nothing.
I am not being condescending (yes I am) I am just pointing out the stupidity of this argument. He wants to use maths and maths proves he is wrong.
Its an illogical poorly thought out argument and I was having a little fun with it.

I dont know there was nothing, thats true, but it has nothing to do with me. Go squawk at the fella who started the thread and ask for some mathematical support, he is the confessed genius, so we are told.
I didnt say I was a mathematical genius, I havnt ever said there was nothing.

Wrong guy, wrong argument.

All these responses and not a single one addresses evolution. All he said was that science on that level is complicated. If you don't understand it and haven't studied it, you should. It's a very interesting subject, regardless of your personal beliefs. Evolution is mathematically and scientifically sound. If you don't like it, learn it.

Originally posted by MercuryField
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Cast a shadow.

I know, that's as weak as the economy, but I had to try.

Good try, but you do not cast the shadow. It is a result of the processes around you.

Beyond thought and movement, there are no other activities we do to produce the world around us. It's all done for us. In other words, the source is greater than the parts. All things in nature flow from a source and the parts cannot rise above the source in complexity. Since science states that we ultimately come from star stuff, we can easily see that we are vastly more complex than hydrogen reactions. Our source is greater than anything we can sense or measure. Entropy in information theory demonstrates that information will degrade over time. We rise above this entropy, yet nature itself cannot. The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics makes evident the fact that matter cannot create consciousness. Consciousness creates matter. Collapsing wave function denies evolution as a cause and reduces it to a result of programming. We are, at our fundamental level, Word (Information).

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Yet if I were not there, it would not exist.

So I say, I create it.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Beyond thought and movement, there are no other activities we do to produce the world around us. It's all done for us. In other words, the source is greater than the parts. All things in nature flow from a source and the parts cannot rise above the source in complexity. Since science states that we ultimately come from star stuff, we can easily see that we are vastly more complex than hydrogen reactions. Our source is greater than anything we can sense or measure. Entropy in information theory demonstrates that information will degrade over time. We rise above this entropy, yet nature itself cannot. The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics makes evident the fact that matter cannot create consciousness. Consciousness creates matter. Collapsing wave function denies evolution as a cause and reduces it to a result of programming. We are, at our fundamental level, Word (Information).

Magnificent !

The funniest part of evolution for me, is something I rarely bring to the table. That is :
If evolution is the ultimate truth. And not just a pack of lies that people gladly accept so they don't have to face the fact of authority ? Authority that would belong to a Creator over his creation ? Then that makes us the highest form of intelligence we know of. We're the end all big brains the universe , existence , consciousness has to offer. We're it !

Originally posted by Barcs

All these responses and not a single one addresses evolution. All he said was that science on that level is complicated. If you don't understand it and haven't studied it, you should. It's a very interesting subject, regardless of your personal beliefs. Evolution is mathematically and scientifically sound. If you don't like it, learn it.

No science on that level is NOT COMPLICATED
To believe that redundant argument one must throw common sense and logic in the bin
Evolution is mathematically and scientifically stupid, regardless of your personnel beliefs- in yourself or your world, it fails upon its first step.
Sort out the first problem "0 + 0 = everything" and then we can look at the next problem
That response clearly addresses the incompetence of the OPs argument
But hey dont let me rain on your faith

Originally posted by borntowatch
No science on that level is NOT COMPLICATED
To believe that redundant argument one must throw common sense and logic in the bin
Evolution is mathematically and scientifically stupid, regardless of your personnel beliefs- in yourself or your world, it fails upon its first step.
Sort out the first problem "0 + 0 = everything" and then we can look at the next problem
That response clearly addresses the incompetence of the OPs argument
But hey dont let me rain on your faith

Oh boy, the atheist terrorist thread creator. You haven't addressed any evidence, just like you didn't in that thread. You are making a ridiculous statement that evolution claims 0 + 0 = everything. Creationism is the one that claims everything was created out of nothing by god. Evolution just claims that life changes over time, and it clearly does.

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by borntowatch
No science on that level is NOT COMPLICATED
To believe that redundant argument one must throw common sense and logic in the bin
Evolution is mathematically and scientifically stupid, regardless of your personnel beliefs- in yourself or your world, it fails upon its first step.
Sort out the first problem "0 + 0 = everything" and then we can look at the next problem
That response clearly addresses the incompetence of the OPs argument
But hey dont let me rain on your faith

Oh boy, the atheist terrorist thread creator. You haven't addressed any evidence, just like you didn't in that thread. You are making a ridiculous statement that evolution claims 0 + 0 = everything. Creationism is the one that claims everything was created out of nothing by god. Evolution just claims that life changes over time, and it clearly does.

Ok, what caused the big bang ( thats the starting point) that created everything. Remember all the elements evolved from the big bang, how did that happen.
Here is your chance to put me back in my box. Not only can you attack me personally, you can discredit my logic, show me where my comprehension of your faith is flawed.
Evolution claims the Big Bang started from nothing and everything evolved from it, so teach me the mathematical formula that explains that

Evolution claims abiogenesis started from nothing and everything evolved from it, so teach me the mathematical formula that explains that

What evidence have you offered me, other than that you are clever at maths? Yopu say its complicated, I have a reasonable grasp of maths, so explain away

Oh Boy! I cant wait, probably wont hear from you again though

Originally posted by borntowatch
Here is some basic maths
0 + 0 = Everything, all the matter in the universe, life, feelings, everything. All the elements in the elemental table, everything seen and unseen.
From nothing
from zero

and thats logical to you, you believe that

You tell em', BTW!

I fail to see his connection of math proving evolution.

One of the evolutionary ideas I can't get past is this:

It should also be noted that the wall of a H. erectus femur was about twice as thick as that of modern Homo sapiens.

H. Eerctus

If the H.E. femur bones are twice as thick as ours, then we would need up to 20 different species between Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens to account for the needed decrease in bone mass. The way it stands now, there was thick-boned H. Erectus, and then POOF! H. Sapiens.

No expert here, but it just doesn't sit right with me.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Evolution claims the Big Bang started from nothing and everything evolved from it, so teach me the mathematical formula that explains that

Evolution claims abiogenesis started from nothing and everything evolved from it, so teach me the mathematical formula that explains that

The big bang theory and the theory of evolution are different things and one does not make claims about the other.