Pondering Hope

reply to post by Iamschist


Such is life, if not now, when?
He points at his watch, and then within,

To live in hope, means to me, you have already surrendered to the time of the mind. And forgotten about the time of what is. With a wave of tears, and only ever happiness, only ever now.

Before you make your final choice and get off this bus, ask your self this.

Is my hope, a miss use of my time? Have I been living this life only in the time of the mind?
Don't sacrifice this experience, because of ignorance, i'm serious, this, I know of first hand.

Be consumed in the knowing of what is, that you need not "fear hope". If used in the right time span.



Muzz
~~~~~~
Sorry, that just spilled out.
i have no idea.

reply to post by ancientthunder


Yes, wow Thank you. Those are exactly the words I needed to hear. I want to shed it all and stand naked, with nothing, go forward with just me. If I am not enough, then all my journey has been for naught. I am not sure that conveys what I mean, I have a feeling you will know.

Originally posted by Ormuz
reply to post by Iamschist

 

Such is life, if not now, when?
He points at his watch, and then within,

To live in hope, means to me, you have already surrendered to the time of the mind. And forgotten about the time of what is. With a wave of tears, and only ever happiness, only ever now.

Before you make your final choice and get off this bus, ask your self this.

Is my hope, a miss use of my time? Have I been living this life only in the time of the mind?
Don't sacrifice this experience, because of ignorance, i'm serious, this, I know of first hand.




Be consumed in the knowing of what is, that you need not "fear hope". If used in the right time span.



Muzz
~~~~~~
Sorry, that just spilled out.
i have no idea.

Things that just spill out often have value. Fearing hope, there is a thought. Does hope lead to pain? One could argue it does. Thank you for your reply

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. Those who sought to give me hope, did so out of love and I am grateful for that. Hugs all around

I am laying down hope and leaving hell. Thank you Dante for the tip. As for the darkness? Pppfffftttt What can it do that has not already been done in the light?

reply to post by Iamschist


Thankyou for bringing this...
Brought many thoughts...
In a way it is true, imho, hope can create a story, a filter through which we see the world
Some day a savior will arrive, some day it will all be good, if we just do our best, pray for things to get bettter, hoping that there is a deeper purpose...
Sometimes hope just gets in the way, hinder us in seeing the world clearly, understand ourselves in profound ways...
In hell there are no hope, in the abyss you are stripped for all beliefs about yourself about this world, all story-lines are burned to dust, only the deepest truth are left by the flames...
The truth which will be eternal...
Gazing from there, you may see this world so clearly, and it may hurt...
Bc some things you believed and other things you may have hoped, were only dust seen from the eye of the eternal flame...
Yet the pain can take you deeper, understand what is true, what is real and not just stories...
From there we may connect truly to ourself and to eachother...

Still hope, imho, is also something deeper... A force which keeps us going, even when there are no reason too, even when everything seem empty of true value...
Hope will help us carry on, igniting the pure fires of love, light and will...
But that is another kind of hope, a deepere, purer hope, which tells no fairy-tales, gives no false belief system...
A hope that just exist... Like a burning flame, always there, seeing what is, unbiased, but always keeps on hoping...
Just my thoughts...

Love and respect, thanks for bringing this my loved friend

Can we even live without hope, do we want to? Is being without hope the same as being without expectations?

yes can can live without it. Do we want to, the real world evidence suggests we cant.
Last question, Yes!

And those who fear the darkness may ponder on this
There are many lights in this world
Dim and only echoes of the true pure burning flame
This light is used to create followers, kings, gods, secret societies
To lure and to control
The pure light do not bend
Cannot be dimmed
Burns through all lies, making them dust

In a world upside down
In a world living by the lie
Fearing the true flame of love and light
Where would you hide the true light
What kind of walls would you build around it

Fear, perhaps
Why do so many fear the darkness

Just pondering

Sorry to spam your thread
Hugs

reply to post by laffoe


My darling friend, you can spam my threads anytime. My heart, as usual you say it beautifully and yes wonderful points. Thank you! Love to you.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Thank you for your reply. Hope and expectations do seem to go merrily hand in hand.'grins'.

reply to post by MrUncreated
I think I know what you are getting at, but perhaps its because you put your hope in a place which is not worthy of it. Perhaps the hope or the light at the end of the tunnel is a completely new way of living. The form on the outside stays more or less the same, but the way you experience life is transformed. That is where there is hope for humanity. It is our very own blindness that makes life so unbearable. So ridiculous and pointless and full of unneeded repeats. You know like when you play a song over and over in the hope that is will get better, its kind of mad in that way.

reply to post by laffoe


Be not sorry but proud of the light,
for the light has pride with it. pride in its magic.
Confidence in its expression, but not overbearing.
The sky has room for all the stars and more.
For as the light spreads so does space open up.
The light can be hunted and stunted in its expression.
but never eliminated or dominated.
For if you were to plug a volcano,
the lava will always flow, be it fast or be it slow.
The changes that are destined.
Sure we are to know.
Be it tomorrow or not.
just let it be so.

eliberocelta 2012

This may sound harsh and im certainly not directing at the OP or anyone else on here.

Basically

Hope, expectations mixed togther in a cocktail becomes the perfect drink for a loser.

Interesting thread my dear, has got me thinking. At the moment it seems like hope is all I have. If I did not have hope I would be left with despair. To give up on hope would be to accept my fate , which I am not prepared to do at the moment.. I don't want to lose hope, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if I were too. One to have a ponder over.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


To lose hope is a different thing than giving it up. Hope is a positive force for good, for healing. An anchor for us on troubled seas. I am ready to,.doesn't mean it is right for you. Good to make you think, if I did that, it is a real compliment coming from you.

reply to post by ancientthunder


Your words resonate with great depth
From your heart to mine
Truth and light will always remain truth and light
Lies will always turn to dust
Masks we wear will always change
But our true nature behind remains the same

Love and respect

reply to post by Iamschist


Hope is a precious thing to have during times of unknowing. The concept of "letting go vs. not letting go" has become greatly misunderstood. In fact, the act of letting go, comes from the desire of something better to happen in your life. The desire for something better (or Devine) to happen to your life, is something you're holding onto. So let go of that also, but then you're doing it all for a reason......for something good to happen....Which is, in fact, a hope. And that is the hope that most of us refuse to let go of.

I hope I'm making sense in my point at least. I believe that this letting go business is a koan. A clever device used, to get you to see that it is impossible to do either. You can't possibly hold onto anything, and you can't possibly let go of anything. The mind is incapable of letting go on its own, nor can the physical hold onto anything.

reply to post by Visitor2012


You make some interesting and valid points. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread and for your response. I understand trying to be nothing is something.

Originally posted by Iamschist
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here". These are the words written above the gates of Hell in Dante's work. I always thought that meant that you took off your hope at the door and entered into a hopeless state. What if, that is not the idea. What if it means in order to leave, you must abandon hope.

Turns out that hope is extremely hard to let go of. It seems to be an innate state that we cling to like barnacles to a ships hull. Having hope is a failure to live now, since hope implies a future. A time when something will occur to alter the now.

Freedom is about attachments right? Ridding ourselves? Hope is an attachment, a powerful one. Can you imagine letting go of yours? Setting it down and walking away? If you do, what are you left with? Can we even live without hope, do we want to? Is being without hope the same as being without expectations?

What say you ATS? These are some thoughts I have been mulling over...........

You are correct, in order to first leave this world you must first abandon and leave everything of what you are behind. Abandon all hope ye who enter here...It is not an actual door it is just something that eventually in time every single soul will have to face and go through if they want to move on, there are different versions of that fact, and some like what Dante was alluding to are literally the extremes of that.

Hope is part of what you are as a living being and part of what this existence is about and tied to it at its core. It is its cross to bear as well as yours, and in time even that cross will become heavy. Its in effect just something that is built into this world and existence only looked at through different perceptions. Life ultimately is about letting go of life eventually, and is a sort of journey were the destinations even do not really matter as much as the journey, and in time everything that you once loved or knew will be gone. When faced with that you have literally no choice but to learn to let go and move on and that to is a bit like abandoning hope that you once had or the things that were once real in you life because they no longer exist for you they have moved on and so to will you eventually in time, in fact time itself is just something added on to the concept of hope it seems and not the other way around, its in effect just about moving on, be it in something trivial or something major.

Its in itself a message also on how to get past the real hells in your life, sometimes the more you fight the less you would of accomplished, and against some things there literally is no winning and they are as concrete as the fact that death is concrete. Hope is that thing that in certain situations elevates you but in others drags you down into your own personal hell, so that which once lifted you up and made you soar now becomes heavy and drags you down into despair and all the other hells people go through in there life's.

There are many stories about hope and the nature of hope, but one is seldom told.

At the end of it all, when everything that you are and everything that is falls to the wayside and flickers out of existence when all that was once light becomes dark and all that you were is burned away within you. You then go through your hells, and they will be many and manifold and everybody will have gone through something like that in there own way on different levels, but in the final hell the true hell when there really is nothing and no option left, there is still the last thing that you have which you cling to and traps you to your world...That thing is hope, at that place then it just becomes the cheese that is hanged in front of the mouse as it runs on its mouse-weal forever going nowhere. Then really the only option you have left, and the last thing you would have left is hope. In a way Its basically like the phoenix story that rose from the ashes, once your totally gone and everything has gone and burned away, once you truly let go of it all and all the things holding you to this world dissipate and become less then ghosts. Then you pass through the last door and I suppose sort of ascend into another reality and existence, because nothing really truly ever dies it just changes and manifests into a different thing. So in effect once you get through hell you would have reached heaven.

Again like I said its just another way at looking at the same thing, there are many more ways then that, but I think everybody at some point in there life's will be there at the point were hope is just the thing that instead of elating them will drag them down. I suppose its just another binary function of this universe, because for every positive there seems to be a negative.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I agree with what you said and I am glad you understood what I was getting at. Your very articulate, it was nice to read what you wrote.

hope is a way to lure many to not have faith,

to not have pride

to not fight back

hope is weak

resolve and self knowledge of your WILL are more and more productive.