Oppositional defiant disorder [ODD] -- Now This Is Some Nonsense

text-book/higher learning institution disorder or

discredited university medical brainwashing disorder or d.u.m.b.:

a disorder where the patient, thru years of indoctrination and brainwashing at an institution of higher learning, believes everything that is given to him to read is indisputable fact and free thinking is abolished.

a symptom of this disorder is self-appointed entitlement, coupled with a quiet air of extreme arrogance and dismissiveness.

victims of this disorder are predominately doctors.

any deviation by the patient of established medical or scientific thought leads to immediate ostracization by his peers.

this leads the patient to believe he is above the human condition, immune and insulated, therefore an expert on its afflictions.

to further justify his "superiority" above all, he seeks approval from his peers, the only ones in the patients eyes worthy of judging him.

this leaves the patient in a state of conflict where he must separate himself from the "common" people and ensure his standing in the pack.

this is accomplished by using his position in the scientific community to further drive a wedge between his pack and the unworthy by classifying any action or opposition to their status as "disorders".

inferring that they are "normal" and therefore superior to people "afflicted" by their arbitrary and baseless "disorder" and immune from their consequences.

they also serve an important function in the power elite, as they are "deemed" experts of unquestionable integrity thus allowing them to provide ammunition, however baseless, to be used against the common people if they deviate from the power structure imposed on them. or become a threat to their status.

for this service they are welcomed in the fold and are rewarded financially and socially, throwing out all humanity, compassion, empathy, wisdom, common sense, courage and opposition out the door.

reply to post by randomname


all that may be true but, it only applies when the white coat is put on (it's magic ya know).

reply to post by Awen24


Then I'm confused, because the ODD states that you need 4 of the 8 of these symptoms plus a few things to be considered ODD.

Where is the discussion regarding the exception? They seem to imply here that these symptoms are a direct result of ODD or some similar disorder.

Personally I just find it far too vague, but then again I'm not a psychologist or anything so maybe I'm reading this stuff all wrong.

~Tenth

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by boncho
It's scary because once you have a disorder, medications and regimens can be created to try and "cure" it. Most people I knew in school "suffered" from this one... At one point or the other.

I think EVERYONE suffers from some clinically-made disorder, regardless if its real, or if we think its fringe, or just another made up diagnosis.

And Yeah. What do you think the "cure" is going to be, and how much "profit", will it make?

They're also considering whether "bereavement" is a disorder.
Yup. There will be a pill...

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


Personally I just find it far too vague, but then again I'm not a psychologist or anything so maybe I'm reading this stuff all wrong.

~Tenth

That's the whole point.

You have to be a psychologist, to actually "think", that its disorder. Anything else, is just playing doctor.

Im sorry, but children will be children. You get this, but those in this profession, will always demonize parents who believe they know whats better, for their own children. Personally, I know if my child was to start acting "differently", then something might be wrong. Im not taking them, to a psychologist, unless its the last resort. Even then, I would be hesitant. Prescription mind altering drugs, is not the answer, and neither is putting blind faith, in Doctors, or Big Pharma. MHO

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Awen24

 

Then I'm confused, because the ODD states that you need 4 of the 8 of these symptoms plus a few things to be considered ODD.

Where is the discussion regarding the exception? They seem to imply here that these symptoms are a direct result of ODD or some similar disorder.

Personally I just find it far too vague, but then again I'm not a psychologist or anything so maybe I'm reading this stuff all wrong.

~Tenth

Nah, I think most of time its a misdiagnosis.. and woeful parenting. The DSM is a very vague and dangerous thing to use IMO. However, doing what I do I come in contact with troubled kids and I get a sort of dossier.. Ive seen this on files along with anti social this or that. Mostly its a kid who has no real parenting, underlying medical issues related to things they are exposed to during birth, etc etc ad nauseum. I met ONE kid in the last 4 yrs that fit this.. though many supposed cases of it that were NOT... and this is a scary sort. NOTHING works with them. The kid I was dealing with was ON meds and I couldnt manage him... none of us could. Its a real violent pathological thing.. totally unfit and incapable of maneuvering in normal daily situations. I really come up empty when I think of what this kid will turn into later on or if they can even fit into a normal society. They dont seem to find pleasure in ANYTHING.. and really the defiance and violence isnt giving them any happiness either. Its a sad and terrible thing.. but when we water the diagnosis CRITERIA down and label kids who need a sound thrashing in the mix, it really makes it difficult to properly treat the very ill kid with ODD properly. The criteria seems pretty vague and dangerous to me. Hell, as a kid I must've had situational ODD.. as in I disrespected folks who didnt demand it or deserve it. I sure as hell didnt try that BS with my dad... LOL!!

Ive also seen these so-called "parents" come in and proclaim their kids labels/.disorders/etc like they are proud or something... or they think in our minds the label and med absolves them of being a complete failure as a parent since we get to deal with their little angels.

Now here is a clue to one little part of hte problem. In many insurance companies, a person has to visit a counselor first to get a covered appointment with a psychiatrist unless there is a previous diagnosis of a major mental illness. Counselors AKA psychologists cant RX, psychiatrists can. The Psychologists come up with some BS diagnosis and IF its bad enough to be called a "major mental illness" the insurance will pay for the psychiatrist. So the psychiatrist wants to get paid and carries n the BS diagnosis.. and labels these kids for life.. dispenses all of the shiny new drugs... PLUS enables the bad behavior and absolves the parent of any culpability in the issue. Voila.. perfect storm.

Originally posted by randomname
text-book/higher learning institution disorder or

discredited university medical brainwashing disorder or d.u.m.b.:

a disorder where the patient, thru years of indoctrination and brainwashing at an institution of higher learning, believes everything that is given to him to read is indisputable fact and free thinking is abolished.

a symptom of this disorder is self-appointed entitlement, coupled with a quiet air of extreme arrogance and dismissiveness.

victims of this disorder are predominately doctors.

any deviation by the patient of established medical or scientific thought leads to immediate ostracization by his peers.

this leads the patient to believe he is above the human condition, immune and insulated, therefore an expert on its afflictions.

to further justify his "superiority" above all, he seeks approval from his peers, the only ones in the patients eyes worthy of judging him.

this leaves the patient in a state of conflict where he must separate himself from the "common" people and ensure his standing in the pack.

this is accomplished by using his position in the scientific community to further drive a wedge between his pack and the unworthy by classifying any action or opposition to their status as "disorders".

inferring that they are "normal" and therefore superior to people "afflicted" by their arbitrary and baseless "disorder" and immune from their consequences.

they also serve an important function in the power elite, as they are "deemed" experts of unquestionable integrity thus allowing them to provide ammunition, however baseless, to be used against the common people if they deviate from the power structure imposed on them. or become a threat to their status.

for this service they are welcomed in the fold and are rewarded financially and socially, throwing out all humanity, compassion, empathy, wisdom, common sense, courage and opposition out the door.

edit on 8-10-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Way to turn the tables randomname
Star.

But this part:

inferring that they are "normal" and therefore superior to people "afflicted" by their arbitrary and baseless "disorder" and immune from their consequences.

not clear on what your saying, immune from their consequences? Whose consequences?

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
Thanks for posting this. I actually read about this diagnosis a couples weeks ago. My thoughts are that it will begin getting applied to adults as well. This could provide a "medical" basis to lock up dissenters.

You know, for their own safety.

edit on 10/8/12 by AnonymousCitizen because: (no reason given)

It sounds like something you would find charged to opposition in say nazi Germany ect. Or back in the communist days of russia......opposition was mental illness.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Awen24

 

He doesn't need therapy and behavioral 're-adjustment' to be a good kid, he needs me to kick his ass when he's being a fool.

Most kids need parenting, not therapy.

~Tenth

We're not allowed to physically discipline our children, it's child abuse. We are not allowed to yell at them, it's mental abuse.
Nobody cares about parental abuse by our children though.

Originally posted by Neocrusader
What's wrong with challenging authority ?

I must be ODD as f***

Sad really just another way to medicate and docilise those that refuse to join in, and question this cake and ass party


Hrmmm docilise......sure that's not even a word

Meh you know what I mean

edit on 8-10-2012 by Neocrusader because: (no reason given)

I had always thought that, in this country anyway, we understood that we needed to keep "authority" from getting to fat a head. We should be required by law to challenge authority in a republic.

My oldest son is ODD, ADD, possible Aspergers and possible Bi-polar.

In my recent research I have discovered many and documents and studies stating that a vast majority of these children with bahavioral problems have high levels of heavy metals such as lead, mercury, barium, copper. and others I can't pull off the top of my head.

A deficiency in the MT protein that allows the filtering of these metals, which CAN be corrected or helped.

He is 16, in residential treatment, story too long and stressful to discuss at the moment.

My research will continue..., as I need an answer for my son to make it through life successfully.

I will probably be doing a separate thread on this at a later date.

Originally posted by tinker9917

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Awen24

 

He doesn't need therapy and behavioral 're-adjustment' to be a good kid, he needs me to kick his ass when he's being a fool.

Most kids need parenting, not therapy.

~Tenth

We're not allowed to physically discipline our children, it's child abuse. We are not allowed to yell at them, it's mental abuse.
Nobody cares about parental abuse by our children though.

edit on 8-10-2012 by tinker9917 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-10-2012 by tinker9917 because: (no reason given)

I've never raised a hand to my children, other than the quick smack on the mouth for being TRULY rude.

I dare social services come to my home. Actually they already were here recently due to neighbor of mine but anyway..

My daughter had a huge rebellious phase in her early-mid teens. I never took her to therapy, I never had her 'checked' I gave her tough love. I made her see how good she had it and how crappy other kids have it.

Two weeks in an orphanage settled her almost immediately. Sometimes you gotta be creative.

~Tenth

reply to post by tinker9917


This is entirely correct.

I went to a facility called the "Pfeiffer Treatment Center". Was displaying what could be labeled as slight psychosis, autistic-like traits, bipolar, etc...

It turns our my hair copper levels were through the roof, 99th percentile. I had to detox with various nutritional supplements, strict diet, exercise and sauna...I got better over the years for the most part.

Still have behavioral/emotional/sensory issues, but it's not nearly as bad.

There'a bit more to it than MT, but I'm far too tired to try and recall it all or research it.

My son was ADHD and ODD from birth. Don't attempt to tell me what is a legitimate disorder of the brain and what is not.

His pattern of life, at almost 45 years now, is simple as I understood long ago: If he was told by parent, school or the law to not do a certain thing, he would find a way. As part of that disorder, he has little concern for others and has no idea of the concept of responsibility.

You would probably deny the existence of ADD also. I'm ADD by the way which gives support for his affliction coming from my side of the family. Also, my mother was depressed, and that probably didn't help.

reply to post by Aliensun


I think you're missing the point entirely.

The labels may serve as mere convenience towards encapsulating a variety of behavioral features, but beyond that is useless.

It has merit to the extent that one could say LOL, instead of laugh out loud. Why did the person want to laugh out loud? What is the origin of the humor?

You dig

Simply stopping at a label is dumb. Understanding the meaning behind the label is smart! Understanding the root cause, and how to prevent it from occuring is best!

You can't do that by simply putting all forms of humor under a LOL....you need context!

We need to find out exactly what set of circumstances at the neurological, genetic, and environmental levels are causing this, and the exact flows of causation between the three.

As is, the system is bound to be abused because the "solution" is to remain ignorant of root causes, and therefore cures, and merely "treat" via corporate conglomerations pharmaceuticals.

What percentage of people with a label of "add", or "odd" have actual neurological, genetic, and environmental causes, rather than familial, socio-policitical, and cultural.



We don't know.

Originally posted by Aliensun
My son was ADHD and ODD from birth. Don't attempt to tell me what is a legitimate disorder of the brain and what is not.

His pattern of life, at almost 45 years now, is simple as I understood long ago: If he was told by parent, school or the law to not do a certain thing, he would find a way. As part of that disorder, he has little concern for others and has no idea of the concept of responsibility.

You would probably deny the existence of ADD also. I'm ADD by the way which gives support for his affliction coming from my side of the family. Also, my mother was depressed, and that probably didn't help.

Wouldnt you like it if kids who didnt have a true medical disorder were not labeled as such in order to do proper research in order to have protocols put into place so these kids CAN succeed at life??? This sort of questioning should be welcomed by those who have loved ones suffering from true cases of these disorders.
As I said, Id had a lot of kids come through and ODD is the new popular label like ADD or ADHD was a few yrs before. I only met ONE who truly suffered from it and it is as of now.. unmanageable. The drugs they are using are not working because the criteria and over diagnosing of it is flawed.

Example: you have 100 kids diagnosed with ODD. they throw lets say.. Lamictal and maybe concerta at it... it works for 65% of the kids.. voila. Thats the new treatment that most all psychs recommend. Problem is that maybe only 3 of the 100 have ODD and the rest are suffering from other mental ailments or none at all. Then YOUR kid doesnt get the proper treatment because the study is flawed by watered down criteria and wrongly diagnosing them in the first place.

Questioning and all is a good thing IMO.

reply to post by Aliensun


But you'd believe a psychologist telling you it was something entirely different right?

We always try and find answers to our problems. In our quest for having an answer, we often just take whatever explanation is the most reasonable, or the most convenient.

He has a disorder, therefore, mystery solved, no longer needs treatment or to figure it out. Just say " OH HE"S ODD, or ADHD, can't blame him!'.

Most of these diagnoses are a cop out for personal responsibility and growing the hell up.

Some people just don't, period. They don't have a disorder, they are just unwilling to make changes within themselves.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Aliensun

 

But you'd believe a psychologist telling you it was something entirely different right?

We always try and find answers to our problems. In our quest for having an answer, we often just take whatever explanation is the most reasonable, or the most convenient.

He has a disorder, therefore, mystery solved, no longer needs treatment or to figure it out. Just say " OH HE"S ODD, or ADHD, can't blame him!'.

Most of these diagnoses are a cop out for personal responsibility and growing the hell up.

Some people just don't, period. They don't have a disorder, they are just unwilling to make changes within themselves.

~Tenth

Want to hear something interesting?? My daughter had a severe fluke reaction to a particular immunization and was hospitalized several times. Went from a normal baby to somehting seriously wrong. It WAS tracked to the immunization and VAERS were filed on it.. and she was sent to a pediatric neurologist to diagnose her. She has a form of autism with serious processing issues. The funny part is ( long story short) when its THEIR fault and can be proven, they sure as hell didnt send her to a psychiatrist to diagnose a medical issue.. it was a neurologist. MOST kids are diagnosed as having aspergers or autism spectrum disorders by a psych. How can this be ( rhetorical Q)

Originally posted by moniesisfun
reply to post by tinker9917

 

This is entirely correct.

I went to a facility called the "Pfeiffer Treatment Center". Was displaying what could be labeled as slight psychosis, autistic-like traits, bipolar, etc...

It turns our my hair copper levels were through the roof, 99th percentile. I had to detox with various nutritional supplements, strict diet, exercise and sauna...I got better over the years for the most part.

Still have behavioral/emotional/sensory issues, but it's not nearly as bad.

There'a bit more to it than MT, but I'm far too tired to try and recall it all or research it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Was looking for anybody's personal experience I could find related to this.

Maybe someday if you're up to it you should start a thread of your own. Some of us out here need all the help we can get.

reply to post by Advantage


They should have her DNA sequenced to find out which rare genetic component caused this severe reaction.

To make it easier, and best help out others, compare her DNA to others who were diagnosed with "aspergers" or "autistic spectrum disorder", who also had the same immunization.

In the future, we should have people's DNA sequenced ahead of immunization, in order to make sure certain susceptible individuals aren't screwed up.

Then you could file a class action lawsuit against...heck, the manufacture of the vaccine, and the psychiatric organization who erroneously label someone with a permanent disorder without knowing the true cause.

At some point pseudo science must be realized as such.