Live in the u.k and againgst i.d cards???

If like me you live in the u.k and are againgst the proposal of government i.d cards, then you might wanna check out this sitewww.no2id.com...

It is the only group set up i know about currently in the u.k and this website could be worth a look for people who want to know the pros and cons of this proposal

Any comments on the i.d scheme?

Most of us adults living in the U.K. carry an id card already, in the form of a driving license, even more so with the picture card licenses. Most adults also hold passports - this again, is id, but on a global scale .
In my area, a lot of youngsters need to carry id as well, especially as the pubs are very strict on underage drinking, and those 18-19 years old find it impossible to get drinks without having id.

A full on ID card, which incorporates all this information might not be a bad thing, as most of us already carry id in one form or another.

I'm all for it, especially if it makes our country a safer palce to live.

Don't see what all the fuss is about meself. If you have any opposition to this, surely you are up to no good and don't want to be 'found out' so to speak. The UK is already starting to be spoiled by crims, so the more info the law has on people the better.

If your for ID cards does this mean your for the microchip when that follows the id card? Hum, these id cards will contain biometric data such as fingerprints, iris scans etc. this is a complete violation of human rights! once they have all your personal data linked to a global computer it will be much easier to get the microchip into people- i would rather die than be chipped.
I think you need to research this area alot more before you stand up for id cards, as well as the overwhelming evidence of government involvement in terrorism- WAKE UP -STOP BUYING GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA!

Here we go. Hang on, let me put on my NWO freak constume.

OMG!!!!111oneone

Originally posted by Irma
Don't see what all the fuss is about meself. If you have any opposition to this, surely you are up to no good and don't want to be 'found out' so to speak. The UK is already starting to be spoiled by crims, so the more info the law has on people the better.

I can understand this line of arguement, I really can, but turning that self same arguement over, I've done nothing wrong, nor have I anything to hide, so why should the state have any call on me, other than that which it can reasonably expect from me anyway through living in society (and I'm not just talking about obeying the law, but about the softer stuff, like keeping a bit of an eye on my elderly neighbours to see if they are ok, that kind of thing)?

Unless the proposal is that this is some sort of implicit deal for being a 'good citizen', and living in a society free from crime etc, ... but from the experience of history would you not have real concerns about where that road leads ...

It's the principle that troubles me here, give up on this today, what will you give up on tomorrow (or what will you be expected to give up on tomorrow)?

If tackling crime is the main thrust of this, is this really the best way to do it anyway - surely a society that inheriently rewards and cultivates respect, opportunity and fairness is a far better way - then the threat of crime is simply never there to start with ...

(Irma, please don't think that I'm flaming 'you'- I'm just presenting another view).

I'm cool, no offence taken. I can see your viewpoint. I just don't think I'd actually be giving anything up. They could have all the info imaginable about me and all it wll serve is to unnecessarily clog up the database. I guess it all depends on the purposes the information held will be used for.

Doesn't bother me - I will gladly carry an I.D card if it helps make things easier for my country - I have nothing to hide (well, not much!)

Long live five (and bollocks to six :-) )

Pete

Doesn't bother me - I will gladly carry an I.D card if it helps make things easier for my country - I have nothing to hide (well, not much!)

Long live five (and bollocks to six :-) )

Pete

Originally posted by Irma
I'm cool, no offence taken. I can see your viewpoint. I just don't think I'd actually be giving anything up. They could have all the info imaginable about me and all it wll serve is to unnecessarily clog up the database. I guess it all depends on the purposes the information held will be used for.

No worries, I'm glad it came over like that. :-)

Was this not part of the debate a little while ago, I recall a minister (I don't think it was Blunkett tho') on Radio4 discussing proposals for a national database, and outlining how legal gateways would be a safeguard that only a given statutory executive or agency would have access to their relevant sections of the records - so that if you were pulled for a road traffic violation, the police officers at the scene would not have access to the fact that you had your appendix out 6 months ago, as it was not necessary for them to access that part of the database ...

The counter argument was that those legal safeguards were not strong enough and information could permeate through. I guess although we are on plenty of databases as it is, the data protection legislation does offer reasonable protection, and having those records physically separate means that information is a bit more hassle to pass on in a trivially. Any breach will be fairly clear on the evidence, and that's then open to prosecution on that Act, or other statutes (computer misuse, official secrets, even tort I guess).

As an example, would your doctor need to know that you had medical treatment whilst in custody - is that part of your medical records, or part of your judicial system records ?

If so, then your doctor will know you have been in custody (even though he has no legal right to that information in most circumstances).

Legally sticky under current legislation I'd say.

... and at the end of all that, I guess all one would really be giving up is the choice of whether to have an id card or not ... *phew*

please people of ATS realize that these ID cards are a complete violation of human privacy- it completely changes the relationship between the state and the people. They can access everything about you as well have all your personal biometrics.
If you don't want to drive you don't have a license, if you don't want to go abroad you don't have a passport- with this new scheme everyone will have to have a card , if not you will be fined �2,500 or if you fail to change your address you will be fined �1000.
I feel very strongly about stopping id cards in this country and will answer anyones justification for having one. I have a lot more information about this scheme if anyone wants to ask?

I don't profess to know all the ins & outs of the ID card business. I assume or hope it will be used for the following.....
1...Eliminating benefit fraud. Saving millions.
2...Stopping those who gain illegal entry into the country from 'slipping through the net'. They won't be able to do much without the ID card.
3...Identifying those who commit crimes.
4...A card that covers all bases. You have one card that will give medical details/police record/and hopefully it can replace your national insurance card/NHS card/driving licence.

If I am being too trusting of the government, fair enough, I'll give up some privacy for a bit more security from crims.
Got any info on what the card will actually be/is rumoured to be used for?

its not the i.d card thats the problem here its the database - as far as the eye scan is concerned - it has already been hacked by a couple of college kids.

mind you i am againgst anything Blunkett has on offer and this "biometrics" system isnt really as foolproof as the government would have you believe and personally i never believe the government - Bliar






[edit on 18-10-2004 by bluemeanie]

Here is another link with lots of useful "Big Brother" i.d biometrics info
www.propagandamatrix.com...

Its worth looking into this subject even if you have already made up your own mind

Originally posted by Irma
Got any info on what the card will actually be/is rumoured to be used for?

Your list is pretty comprehensive I'd say, from what I understand of the proposals anyway. The card and database are just parts of the same thing.

I understand that there is some speculation / concern that it will eventually be open to commercial data handling - as id verification for banking, credit card applications, even eventually linking it to e-cash which will reach simple everyday stuff, like, err, shopping.

I gather one big concern with a [US centric, I'd guess] national database is around the commercial exploitation for medical insurance purposes, but if it's linked to the provision of heathcare, it's not like you have any real alternative.

I'll try to reference these comments, otherwise it's a bit like saying "my mate down the pub, knows someone who... etc etc..."

Originally posted by bluemeanie this "biometrics" system isnt really as foolproof as the government would have you believe

Biometrics today, chip tomorrow.
Now that throws up some interesting idea's for id theft !

i agree with ID cards, it is only morphing a multiple of current cards into one more efficent card

ID cards will help track and combat: crime, illigal immigration etc

i'm all for them

Originally posted by Irma
Don't see what all the fuss is about meself. If you have any opposition to this, surely you are up to no good and don't want to be 'found out' so to speak. The UK is already starting to be spoiled by crims, so the more info the law has on people the better.

That's always a good excuse for imposing restrictions on society... the old "You must be up to no good to oppose it" excuse.

Actually, it's a load of b*ll*cks isn't it? At the end of the day we've got no choice, because no matter what anyone trys to tell you, we are not free.

So, ID cards are the next obvious step for this "huge open prison" society we live in.

Afterthought....

A good example of how these ideas restrict society without restricting criminals, is UK gun laws - over the past five years since tightening gun restrictions in the UK gun crime has increased by 40% it has caused problems for genuine sportsmen whilst doing nothing to the world of crime.

The only people affected are the likes of you and me, who know better in the first place.

Those that want to find a way around new laws always will. They're like hackers, they just see the new laws as a challenge to overcome.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by USER]

good points from USER and bluemeanie as for you others who are dying to give up your rights to our corrupt government here are some FACTS:

1. ID cards in spain did not stop the madrid railway bombing.
2. Other countries like france and germany with ID cards still have fraud, illegal working, and high crime rates.
3. Black and ethnic minorities will be discriminated even more like they are with the 'stop and search' policy.
4. ID cards will cost at least 3 billion to set up , this money could pay for 30 new hositals, 600 schools, etc.

These are just a few points as well as others made eariler and there are more. I suggest you people willing to be slaves research the NWO and related areas rather than be sheep, afterall this site is about denying ignorance- WAKE UP PEOPLE! i will not give my rights up to you ignorance. I am sorry to get a bit heated but this area is so obviously about a big brother society- please, please people realise this