Your right to resell your own stuff is in peril .. Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons

Originally posted by Staroth
reply to post by bigyin

 

I live in America and I can tell you, this will not happen. Even if it does people will still continue on, just like any other day. That's America! They may pass gun laws but they will never stop women at a yard sale

Well...historically that's true.

But you are assuming that the police won't just come down and start tasing, clubbing, pepper spraying, and executing dogs with ruthless abandon if they see any black market garage sales going on.

While it might seem absurd to think that this would ever happen... remember...we are now deploying the US military at college football games for no apparent reason whatsoever.

www.wistv.com...
www.infowars.com...
www.prisonplanet.com...
www.infowars.com...

Welcome to Amerikaanistan, people.

reply to post by bigyin

In the digital world its already in swing, there trying to find ways to make you pay for the things you bought long ago, even in video-games its getting silly. Now when you buy the game you buy only parts of the game, they are always coming up with new updates some even on the next day that the game came out. All just to squeeze as much $$ from there costumers as they can. When everything goes digital this will be more prevalent, especially if you can not get a hard copy of whatever you are buying as the stores don't sell them anymore.

But if you cant sell your old stuff or even things you no longer need, that is just getting into the beyond retarded department, and ya every manufacturers will move ship so they can take advantage of this law. I do not see how it could work on certain things like cars or devices that you bought, they could try to enforce it and over time people would tow the line for it. On new gadgets that come out I see how this can work and why they would do it, but when that new gadget becomes old and is no longer in demand they would of been kind of killing themselves in that department. But if anything in our consumer society its all about the newest and shiniest thing to come out, and that is were the money is. I am thinking they would want to control it there in that phase, after that it becomes not as important and this law may actually hurt more then it helps.

But again it is ultimately just another way to keep there intellectual property rights to keep dishing in the $$ to them, but seeing that there really is not in and of itself anything out there that is really original then it just really becomes about control and who has the most lawyers and more lawmakers in there pockets basically about who can enforce themselves more, and really that is what it comes down to even with the consumers that buy the items, that is its only yours as long as you can maintain it that way.

Kind of like the whole thing Apple has with Samsung were they sued them over intellectual property rights or some such, there was even a rumor that they won and that Samsung paid them 1 billion dollars in nickels which they shipped in trucks to them. But it looks like that was false and the whole case is still kind of going.
Apple vs Samsung
1 bill payd in nickels

Which is kind of retarded seeing as all there ideas came form somebody or something else ideas, it all basically just becomes who can enforce themselves more, which again just means who has the most lawmakers or judges in there pockets, and basically who has the most lawyers. In fact that is all that it ever was, even with things such as cars or the other things they sell, and if they can enforce the fact that they don't want you to own your car but sort of lease to you, it be it through laws, or rules and regulations, or even through old fashion man power or private police, well...Then they will do it.

I find the whole thing silly, and even in that smartphone case that apple has with Samsung, I do not own a smartphone as they put out to much noise. But really there not all that different from each other, and from what I heard and seen from people that actually had both phones, one guy in particular I work with used to be an apple guy till he bought a Samsung galaxy phone now he hates the iPhone, and judging from others and it seems in the end its all just what label you like the most on your device... literally.

Or as this vid explains, its all just a brand. Intellectual property indeed.
Warning there are some potty words in the vid.

Originally posted by bigyin
I'm not in or from USA but I didnt know whether to laugh or cry at reading this article

It could become illegal to resell your iPhone 4, car or family antiques

Basically it is saying that, if the law is passed, anybody would not be able to sell their possessions if they were made outside of US without first getting permission from the manufacturer.

I know this sort of thing has been raised before, especially with firms like Sony who hate it when second hand dvd's are sold, because they see it as them losing a sale.

But I had no idea that there was a move to apply the 'logic' to everything else.

As the article says, the first thing that will happen is that all manufacturing will be moved out of US to provide the owners with the new powers.

In my opinion it's sheer madness and just another Big Corporation idea to control us even more.

Yes well, Dont forget you will need your computer chip to buy and sell, people cant see it yet
not joking

reply to post by bigyin


I think that if they can keep you from selling your own things you should be able to hold those companies liable if you are hurt in anyway shape or form by those products.

I was in an accident/got a ticket/someone died/ because i was texting and driving on your iphone?? appple is liable. how do you like them apples??


An xbox??? I became addicted and lost my job ! microsoft is liable.

A dvd?? My son hurt himself because i was too entertained by your dvd.

A nerf foot ball gave you a black eye?? company is liable for the medical visit

You stepped on a lego when you got up at night to go to the bathroom?? We need compensation

you can get really anal if they ask for petty things like this. It cuts both ways. the sad part is that there is already plenty of sueing for crap liek this.

if you pay them with money that comes with no strings attached, its only fair that the product you bought comes with no strings attached.

if they can tell you what you can and can't do with your iphone, then you should be able to tell them what to spend your money you gave them on.

reply to post by randomname


apparently you are renting it.

Why not just give the stuff to somebody rather than sell it?

For example: "my brother gave me £150 towards the rent, it was a lovely gesture and very kind, to thank him for his kindness i gave him a playstation 3, 10 games, 2 controllers and a HD cable".

A good 'gesture' deserves rewarding.

reply to post by Hillarie


I don't think a law like this is placed on the books with intent to enforce it in every instance possible. As you said, it wouldn't work, because people would ignore it and it is just too widespread to police everyone who breaks the law.

Instead, I think this sort of law is put into effect and subsequently invoked in situations where the suspect is otherwise innocent and the arresting officers can not identify any other criminal activity to substantiate an arrest, fine or temporary detention.

Not like they really needed another ridiculous law to use when it's found that no other laws have been broken... In some places it is still illegal to dance! or play rock'n roll! They don't arrest everyone who dances or plays electric guitar, but they have the legal capability to do so, based on the bogus laws.

*-Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere between the 1st page and here, I'm at work and just wanted to put a post up-*

Well let me know when that goes into effect, I will sell you some earring my grandmother gave to me, I also have some old Sony DVD's that I don't want anymore I am putting in my yard sale as well.

Originally posted by lifeform11
Why not just give the stuff to somebody rather than sell it?

For example: "my brother gave me £150 towards the rent, it was a lovely gesture and very kind, to thank him for his kindness i gave him a playstation 3, 10 games, 2 controllers and a HD cable".

A good 'gesture' deserves rewarding.

Likely giving stuff away will be regarded as a heinious crime as there is no money changing hands then they can't charge a percentage

If you can't sell it, you don't own it. If you don't own it, it's not your property. If it's not your property, you can't be taxed on it. Unfortunately these law makers don't concern themselves with logic.

I'd like to see em try and stop me from selling second hand products. I sort of have a career of doing that anyway.

The feds can't stop people selling weed, crack and stolen goods, what makes them think they can stop people from selling anything else? Ignorance is bliss I guess...

Just another form of tyranny and control. The government is trying to become God, and pretty soon, people will have to live illegally to escape the chains and shackles...

I'm ready. Breakin the law is a hobby of mine, I don't mind if it becomes a lifestyle.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

Reading the original article, the government isn't trying to do anything.
Nobody is trying to pass a new law.
This is a company trying to use the civil law about their own products

Both sides of the political spectrum are working against us.

Direct your frustration and anger in the RIGHT direction.

Originally posted by bigyin

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
If the guy was actually buying used text books from people who used them or did the guy have his relatives go to the tore and buy them new and then jut send them to him to resell.

I understand both sides of this suit. I think the guy has crossed the line when new items are purchased in other countries and reshipped and exported to be sold locality here in the USA. On the other hand he could be getting legit used books not recycled new purchases which is ok with me.....

I see the problem being not with the guy but with the overseas distributors who sold the books without an export license to prevent this type of "commercial piracy" ........

I don't think this is any comparison to this and for example Ebay. However, I could this law being twisted by corporate America to create a "rental-for-life" society so this is a dangerous precedent in the making.

What if the guy got his mum to go to the shop and buy new books. Then he bought them off his mum for the same price. That would mean they were secondhand, even if they had been unopened.

It's just the same if anyone goes to any other person and buys an article and then sells it again to somebody else. It's called the free market which we all participate in.

The corporation is just peed off cos he is selling their book for cheaper than they do. Why don't Wileys reduce the price of the book to the same for everywhere. problem solved.

I understand what you are saying but he is using a loop hole left open by the distributor who sold the book in that country. I have no problem with it if he was doing it with his own personals but he recruited people to go out and buy them so he could resell them here... for what? $1.2 million? Thats big business not a some kid selling a few college text books. I see it a an import/export restriction problem

Perhaps this would help turn manufacturing in the U.S. around!

Hopefully, as people turned away from these pieces of garbage made abroad, new markets would re-appear here in The States?

On second thought, it won't happen, we're addicted, and screwed.

reply to post by jude11


You never really own anything. Try not paying or taxes. And find out how long you own something.

the right to resell your stuff will never be in jeopardy as long as the people with over 65 I.Q. understand that if they were to do this, just boycott every damn product until they are all bankrupt, besides unless they think this country is made of completely of bankers, lawyers, and doctors they will screw themselves in the end, because half the people that would buy their product would now be with out a job to even buy new toys, so unless its going to move all the farm land to another country i really don't see the point, i don't know about most but i can certainly live with out internet/smart phone, ps3, games...plenty plenty to do with out a plug stuck in a wall of course it involves things outside so most of the fat/obese wont like those ideas

also i believe the underground black market type flea markets would pop up, could make many web site that mimic a craigslist, so really the only ones caught there will be people going after that" to good to be true add" like "free gold" lol and many ways to word a description to make it seem like its not a legit product, kind of like the reverse of people selling ripped off goods, you just say it "looks" like a sony walk man hehe scratch the plastic names off the outside and take all labels off. really many ways to thwart this even in its first month of becoming a reality.

but sadly even if it did pass, there would still be droves of those idiots that wait in line over night to buy a phone that has auto tracking from FBI installed right on it at purchase, because they are sad pathetic people with no real self worth so its filled with a phone, to screw it all up. then of course cannot forget companies paying people to continue to wait in lines after it passes to make sure people see that "OTHERS STILL WAIT FOR OUR AWESOME PRODUCT, SO SHOULD YOU!!' mentality , and paying people to write blogs and call in on radio stations, and cry that they need the new phones/toys, so they wont be joining the boycott blah blah.

plus not to mention the very people making this law would most likely be the ones to help shoot it back down when they realize they can no longer trade/sell their very precious antiques they have been saving for xyz years to turn a profit. not to mention art alone, allot of photos are mass produced after the original, and many famous painters back in the day would hire droves of young painters to copy their work, both examples could be considered "manufactured" so would not be able to sell/resell allot of the art work out there.

in the end this bill screws to many people from different facets of life so i highly doubt it would pass, and if it did , i would take a guess to say one year max it would last.

Originally posted by BlueAjah
People definitely have to speak up loudly about this.

Think of all of the poor college students who barely make it through college. They usually need to buy used texts on ebay or from fellow students. They then need to resell their books after a course just to be able to afford the next course. College is already beyond the reach of most students. If they need to only purchase new books, at the outrageous prices charged by publishers, some might never eat, or might not go to college at all. The books for one semester can cost hundreds or thousands when purchased new.

I can attest to this, as I had been in this situation.

Even at the community college level, you wouldn't believe how much books cost, and I'm already in debt.

reply to post by thebtheb

Are you kidding. If this did happen, companies would crop up immediately offering "yours to keep and do with as you please" and everyone would go to them, and the others would all die. Ain't gonna happen. This thing is just about the basic case of buying a ton of books from some other country and selling them here. The article just sensationalizes the "what if" aspect and everyone's biting.

No Companies wouldn't 'crop' up & do this, because if this bill becomes law-that would be illegal, and those Co.(s) would be closed down & fined.

Look, our Gov't controls us, and they want control of our stuff too. If this causes a cashless system they will have us exactly and entirely where they want us. Bartering underground won't be as easy as it seems, and certainly we won't be able to barter for everything that we might need.. but even if we could it still stands to reason that - we shouldn't have to!