A Disciple's Journey Into the Essence of the Way - How Mystery is Revealed by Harsh Circumstance

A Disciple's Journey Into the Essence of the Way - How Mystery is Revealed by Harsh Circumstance

Occasionally, I read something so profound that it speaks deeply to my inner nature. The link I provide below is such a document. I stumbled upon this document as I was searching a related topic. What I find in this article is a goldmine of related context that reveals how God speaks through scripture. Although I knew most of this by parts and pieces, having it all here in one place allows me to construct a larger framework for seeing how God is working in my own life. Like all events in my life, the synchronicity around finding this emerald among the pegmatite is a profound testimony to what it reveals. If you are not a believer in God and not a lover of truth, this document will say nothing to you except foolishness. Each day, I understand more fully why this is so. All I can offer to you is this advice: Love God and others. Seek and knock and God opens the door that blocks your understanding.

Although I do not agree with 100% of what is stated by implication, I do value the perspective. For instance, when it draws the implication that historical facts may be allegory, I disagree that the historical context is not accurate. The linguistics is always stated in such a way to provide an accurate path if read as intended. Most of what is stated here falls into alignment with my own experiences and we could make points either way. I would be interested in other opinions so I am posting it here.

...What Origen states is not only true, but is of the utmost importance for us to comprehend in our present day: If the scriptures were historically accurate, then we would believe, and never move beyond the written word. In never moving beyond the written word, we would fail to develop those parts of our mind that relate to our soul and spiritual natures and reality -- and in our failure to mature, we would remain lost in this carnal world, and never open the door to the Kingdom within our being. From a scriptural perspective, the prodigal son would never return home to his Father.

God is capable of both historical accuracy and linguistic depth. I disagree with the author on this point. If we define Adam as one man, we might miss the true meaning of Adam as God's first image of mankind. The same holds true for Eve as the archetype for woman. It all depends on how the words are defined and if they are defined accurately. God reveals these things and the true meaning is not one reflection, but many. I think the author means to bring this point out.

Origen and many of the other early Church Fathers comprehended this design and higher purpose of the Gospel. They understood that the scriptures are written in such a way that our reading them would be interrupted by the many instances where what we read literally is not true -- and in coming to this scriptural roadblock, the intention was for us to seek to understand the deeper meaning -- a meaning that can only be perceived by drawing closer to our own spiritual nature.

The quote above is another example. I disagree with this, but I do see that there may be places in scripture for this to be true. The example of Lazarus is a parable. In this case, the author would be correct. How do we know? Does it matter?

Simply put: When you are ready for more light, it shines. God designed His Creation to reveal itself to the heart that is ready at the time it is ready and not before. At the moment you are most frustrated, your own history is revealing the light to you. Faith makes things possible, not easy.

The rest of the article goes on to show the same weakness in places. I value this article for other aspects, especially the opening set of quotes and exposition. As for the author's doubts of scriptural and historical accuracy, I think God tells it the way it is. We may not have enough faith to believe. In the end, it's all faith and the obvious working of the Holy Spirit in the believer's heart. Only God can confirm your faith with fact.

The Disciple's Journey Into the Essence of the Way

Galatians 4:24

These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.

2 Corinthians 3:6

6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Mark 4:11-12

11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,

“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’

Romans 16:25-27

25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

reply to post by EnochWasRight



Why is it so hard for people to let go of these silly Abrahamic religions and see that its all completely foolish?

If there is a conciousness that can fulfill an act of true creation and create the cosmos and everything in it, why do anything so lowly as impose rules on human society. Creating something of nothing has only been done one single time in our cosmos. If there is an entity capable of such a feat, why would it use this awesome power only once and then speak in riddles and through people's pens?

Scripture will never be the language of a being such as god. If god wanted to talk to us, it would do so directly, and not through other people.

Excellent thread OP thanks for sharing.

reply to post by fedeykin


That is like saying you will only accept communiques that are in the format of messages in bottles.

Originally posted by fedeykin
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Why is it so hard for people to let go of these silly Abrahamic religions and see that its all completely foolish?

If there is a conciousness that can fulfill an act of true creation and create the cosmos and everything in it, why do anything so lowly as impose rules on human society. Creating something of nothing has only been done one single time in our cosmos. If there is an entity capable of such a feat, why would it use this awesome power only once and then speak in riddles and through people's pens?

Scripture will never be the language of a being such as god. If god wanted to talk to us, it would do so directly, and not through other people.

If you take the time to read the linked article, you will see why this may not be so. If you cannot see it, then I would agree that the document states the reason why accurately. I see this continuously on ATS. Such profound truths and spiritual insights are trampled by those who lack the ability to see. As 1 Corinthians accurately states, there is the wisdom of the world and the wisdom of the spirit. Anyone who is locked in the material can never understand the spiritual and will only see foolishness. Those who do understand see a much different reality. You can't know apart from the bridge that gets you there. It starts with seeking and knocking from the realization of how empty the material world is. Someone who is locked in this material state also lacks a further quality to cross the bridge. Virtue and love must be present. Faith is where it starts, but virtue is what keeps faith from being dead.

I cannot explain it to you apart from saying that there is a switch that must be flipped to see, otherwise you remain blind. The article does an outstanding job of stating this from the words of many past authorities and sources.

Most things in life require that we earn them. I assume God sets truth in motion this way for this very reason.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Most things in life require that we earn them. I assume God sets truth in motion this way for this very reason.

Other believers will argue that we need not earn anything from God; it is already granted.

You really confuse, me, EWR.

Your beliefs such jump all over the place.

Originally posted by fedeykin
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Why is it so hard for people to let go of these silly Abrahamic religions and see that its all completely foolish?

If there is a conciousness that can fulfill an act of true creation and create the cosmos and everything in it, why do anything so lowly as impose rules on human society. Creating something of nothing has only been done one single time in our cosmos. If there is an entity capable of such a feat, why would it use this awesome power only once and then speak in riddles and through people's pens?

Scripture will never be the language of a being such as god. If god wanted to talk to us, it would do so directly, and not through other people.

edit on 5-10-2012 by fedeykin because: (no reason given)

There is yet another way to consider this.

Genesis 3

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Food in the Bible is symbolic of truth and the reception of knowledge and wisdom. As mankind sinned by trying to steal the fruit of knowledge, the toil we have in receiving this from God becomes the toil we have in finding the fruit of knowledge. If context is used to consider the truth, then Genesis 3 is that context. In Revelation 13, the fruit of knowledge is described as the mark of the beast. Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons.

Revelation 13

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e-or of mankind] That number is 666.

We know that mankind is marked by being Carbon based lifeforms. What I have just shown you from scripture is a perfect example of what is stated in the article. Apart from the history and knowledge we have gained since John wrote this verse 2000 years ago, we cannot know the truth by reflection. God reveals it to us from history and from spiritual insight. Without crossing the bridge of love for God, this may pass you by entirely. For the seeker of truth and lover of God, this reveals itself uniquely to the individual. That light can then be shared.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

All I can offer to you is this advice: Love God and others. Seek and knock and God opens the door that blocks your understanding.

this one statement alone is very true, at least it was for me and my husband, we both genuinely asked God to show us the truth after a Christian friend of ours told us all we need to do was ask, neither of us told each other we had asked God for help, my reason for this was that i felt silly talking to a God that i didn't even know really existed, it turns out this was the same for my husband. but within a short space of time our eyes were opened and we both realised at the same moment that we knew God existed, there is absolutely no doubt about it in our minds at all, it was that easy!

the learning curve since then has been difficult but we now understand why we and other people act the way they do, and how innocent people are manipulated everyday without even realising it, life is much easier for us now as we can't be manipulated in the same way ever again, we know what is right and what is wrong, and we always stand up for ourselves and others around us, we feel really lucky to have finally seen the truth,

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Most things in life require that we earn them. I assume God sets truth in motion this way for this very reason.

Other believers will argue that we need not earn anything from God; it is already granted.

You really confuse, me, EWR.

Your beliefs such jump all over the place.

Salvation is not the same as seeking and knocking for truth. Grace is the free gift of God and mercy is offered to anyone who repents. What is repentance? It is turning away from sin. By earning, I am speaking of knowledge and wisdom, not salvation. Jesus stated that, "you must be born again." If scripture is gleaned for meaning by the very process outlined in the article, the inner meaning of this can be revealed within the mystery. I have an excellent article on this linked in my signature under water and spirit baptism. Mankind is walking a road of progress between Adam and the end of the Day of the Lord. Salvation comes at the end of this journey in the wilderness. 1000 years is yet to come for all those who wait for salvation.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Where are we waiting?

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Paul said it as well. The righteous and the wicked would be raised together before the second coming of Christ.

Acts 24

I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

There are 7 billion souls on earth now. Revelation 1:7 can happen now that Elijah has turned on the waters of baptism. To know why this verse below includes the generation that pierced Christ, you need to read the article I suggested.

Revelation 1:7

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[a]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

We are all here to see Christ return. The resurrection Paul spoke of has happened as far as I can see.

Earning salvation is not possible. Faith is required and Jesus paid the price. Wisdom and knowledge to see the day approaching is another matter.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Jesus stated that, "you must be born again."

And recently, reading a post/thread of yours, I am pretty sure I saw you agree with the concept of reincarnation.

You pull so many different schools of thought together, and then selectively vilify them.....

I have looked at your blog.
I have read some of the entries.

Nevertheless, when you are posting on ATS, why must you insist on people looking at your blog?
You espouse numerology, reincarnation, grace, doomsday, judgment,......
and as long as I've been reviewing your posts, I still get no solid idea of where you actually stand.

From this, I imagine I may conclude that you are growing and learning, as are many of us who wish not to clamp onto something with our fangs and never let go.

Originally posted by Minnie1985
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

All I can offer to you is this advice: Love God and others. Seek and knock and God opens the door that blocks your understanding.

this one statement alone is very true, at least it was for me and my husband, we both genuinely asked God to show us the truth after a Christian friend of ours told us all we need to do was ask, neither of us told each other we had asked God for help, my reason for this was that i felt silly talking to a God that i didn't even know really existed, it turns out this was the same for my husband. but within a short space of time our eyes were opened and we both realized at the same moment that we knew God existed, there is absolutely no doubt about it in our minds at all, it was that easy!

the learning curve since then has been difficult but we now understand why we and other people act the way they do, and how innocent people are manipulated everyday without even realizing it, life is much easier for us now as we can't be manipulated in the same way ever again, we know what is right and what is wrong, and we always stand up for ourselves and others around us, we feel really lucky to have finally seen the truth,

For those who are reading the OP and thinking there is nothing to the foolishness of God and the Bible, your testimony is evidence to the contrary. God is and does what he says. Examples like yours are why believers see the truth so easily. For all those who can't, simply seek and knock. Trust God and that seed of faith will be the harvest that God brings with the living water only He can provide. Along the way, the gardener must suffer the hoe.

I love this quote from the 5th dynasty Egypt:

PtahHotep (Some say this is Joseph)

"Be not arrogant because of that which you know; deal with the ignorant as with the learned; for the barriers of art are not closed, no artist being in possession of the perfection to which he should aspire. But good words are more difficult to find than the emerald, for it is by slaves that that is discovered among the rocks of pegmatite."

It's the slave that finds the emerald. The King never needed it. In this case, the Emerald is something God allows us to keep.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I cannot explain it to you apart from saying that there is a switch that must be flipped to see, otherwise you remain blind.

This is so true. And it is sad, truly sad, that you can't find the switch that awakens your common sense, that allows you to see the numerous contradictions and outright fabrications in your religion.

I am all about Ancient Aliens and alien technology used to build the great monuments of the past. And yet, I am in the middle of watching 'Ancient Aliens Debunked'. The evidence is right there - no aliens. No need for gods and aliens; we humans did it all.

I hope you find your switch, EWR.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Jesus stated that, "you must be born again."

And recently, reading a post/thread of yours, I am pretty sure I saw you agree with the concept of reincarnation.

You pull so many different schools of thought together, and then selectively vilify them.....

I have looked at your blog.
I have read some of the entries.

Nevertheless, when you are posting on ATS, why must you insist on people looking at your blog?
You espouse numerology, reincarnation, grace, doomsday, judgment,......
and as long as I've been reviewing your posts, I still get no solid idea of where you actually stand.

From this, I imagine I may conclude that you are growing and learning, as are many of us who wish not to clamp onto something with our fangs and never let go.

I keep going back to the content of the article I posted. The author does a profoundly good job of showing that truth is not simply one thing. This is where you are seeing the dichotomy between me and accepted theology. If you were to hear me speak of salvation, you would hear a fundamental Baptist theology come through. If you were to hear me speak of the mystery of what salvation signifies, you would hear 1 Kings 17 where Elijah takes the dead child from the widow, carries him UP STAIRS and restores his life. After, he brings him back down to the mother alive. In the NT, we know Elijah as John the Baptist baptizing. Baptism is the symbol of our repentance. TRUE. But that symbol has a root meaning. The root meaning is our immersion into the water of life.

In 1 Kings, before Elijah meets the widow, he tells Ahab that the water will be shut off at his command. The DEW does not reach the Earth. What is Dew a symbol of:

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Just ask yourself this question. How does Elijah prepare the way of the Lord? He turns the water back on and the dead live again. Isaiah is clear on this and the context is within the revelation of the Day of the Lord.

Dew is the droplets of water that give life to the morning, just before the sun comes up. Again, God hides this wisdom in the linguistics and the related context.

Reincarnation is not the correct term. Resurrection is the right term and transmigration of the soul is also accurate. God promised to raise BOTH the righteous and wicked on the last day.

Paul confirms.

Acts 24

I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

"You must be born again." This does not change salvation. It confirms that we are waiting on it.

Hebrews 9

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The person is not the soul. The soul cannot die and Job and others confirm that the soul will live again.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

You are correct. We do live and learn each day. Today, my knowledge was yet again expanded and all that came before is confirmed. The Holy Spirit does not lie, yet we can often misunderstand at times. We are all blind men describing fire. Legally speaking, our salvation depends on it.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

"You must be born again." This does not change salvation. It confirms that we are waiting on it.

Okay, which is it? You DO believe in reincarnation (Elijah, John the B., Jesus, etc), or you DO NOT?

I have never denied "salvation." I steadfastly maintain that we continue to recycle back to a physical realm (somewhere, if not Earth) until we are ready to "graduate" to the Divine Realm; and that it takes many, many lifetimes to do so.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

"You must be born again." This does not change salvation. It confirms that we are waiting on it.

Okay, which is it? You DO believe in reincarnation (Elijah, John the B., Jesus, etc), or you DO NOT?

I have never denied "salvation." I steadfastly maintain that we continue to recycle back to a physical realm (somewhere, if not Earth) until we are ready to "graduate" to the Divine Realm; and that it takes many, many lifetimes to do so.

Your answer has already been provided. Scripture confirms that we return. It's a mystery. I prefer to leave it at the fact that scripture shows us that we have likely been here many times.

What do you read in these words:

Job 2

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied.

Job's children had been killed by Satan. What does a snake do? He sheds skin for skin, yet the snake is still the same. In other words, the children will return.

Extend this to Adam. When Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," what was he saying? Not just one thing. The LORD is Christ in the OT. Adam was the Father, yet so was Abraham. Issac was the Son, yet so was Jesus. Can we confirm this mystery? I believe we can, yet the only teacher is Jesus. We can only look.

What was Job saying here?

Job 19

23 “Oh, that my words were recorded,
that they were written on a scroll,
24 that they were inscribed with an iron tool on lead,
or engraved in rock forever!
25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

He was saying what he knew. He would return to see the redeemer. He knew this to be so. He also says something else profound next.

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

Who is HIM? The redeemer. Adam fell. Jesus was the last Adam. Is the root of the trouble we face in Adam? Sure. He sinned and fell. He was the first man created. Should we hound him for the error? No. He is also our salvation and all of this is God's plan for mankind. Love is what I would say and all of what I just revealed in my own thinking is yet a mystery. We will not know until Christ reveals all things.

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The Hebrews say that Adam Kadmon was the first soul broken up to make all other souls. When Christ told Peter to fish on the right side of the boat, he was telling him how to view truth. Peter then caught 153 fish. 153 is the 17th triangular number and the ratio of 1:1.415 (Square root of 2). It is the ratio that makes the fish of the vesica pisces and what Pythagoras called the measure of the fish. Why does it matter?

Earlier, you told me that I dabbled in numerology. This is not true. God said, "Let him who has wisdom calculate the number of the beast." Let him is the operative term. God leaves these things for us to find. In the case of 153, it is the difference between unity and multiplicity. When Adam was broken into humanity, unity is the direction he returns after fulfilling the law that was impossible for us to fulfill alone.

How will we know if we don't seek?

Originally posted by fedeykin
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Why is it so hard for people to let go of these silly Abrahamic religions and see that its all completely foolish?

If there is a conciousness that can fulfill an act of true creation and create the cosmos and everything in it, why do anything so lowly as impose rules on human society. Creating something of nothing has only been done one single time in our cosmos. If there is an entity capable of such a feat, why would it use this awesome power only once and then speak in riddles and through people's pens?

Scripture will never be the language of a being such as god. If god wanted to talk to us, it would do so directly, and not through other people.

edit on 5-10-2012 by fedeykin because: (no reason given)

It wasn't imposing rules on human society. It was telling you that according to your own nature if you break the commandments you'll hurt yourself.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You can't use scripture to prove scripture is the word of god.

It just doesn't work that way. I really don't care what Corinthians in any chapter says, cause I know it was written by a human being a long time ago, that had no where near the knowledge that any random person has today. I also highly doubt any divine communication that was only targeted to this person.

Why does god not talk through people anymore? Why did he stop?

What if I told you, that god is talking through me right now, in order to make you stop believing this foolishness out of our past?

Originally posted by fedeykin
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You can't use scripture to prove scripture is the word of god.

It just doesn't work that way. I really don't care what Corinthians in any chapter says, cause I know it was written by a human being a long time ago, that had no where near the knowledge that any random person has today. I also highly doubt any divine communication that was only targeted to this person.

Why does god not talk through people anymore? Why did he stop?

What if I told you, that god is talking through me right now, in order to make you stop believing this foolishness out of our past?

Can a science textbook be used to demonstrate science? God speaks through the mind that is focused on Him. the Words that are used are not nearly as important as the impression that God gives through the words. He speaks directly to the soul of the person reading His Word. Although you and I can speak through words, unless we are speaking from that heart that God molds, then the words are just words, words, words. God can speak to us through any number of sources because the His word is etched on our hearts. The Bible is merely a reflecting point to bring the true word to the mind. As Aristotle eluded, all truth is within you waiting to be revealed.

Isaiah 59:21

“And as for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit that is upon you, and my words that I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your offspring, or out of the mouth of your children's offspring,” says the Lord, “from this time forth and forevermore.”

Hebrews 10:16

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”

John 4:14 Helpful? Yes No

but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

The water is Living Water and this is the living word of God that is within us all. It is also possible to shut this word out completely. It is etched into nature as well.

Originally posted by fedeykin
Scripture will never be the language of a being such as god. If god wanted to talk to us, it would do so directly, and not through other people.

Two things. One, God communicates through the Spirit. But I'm sure God had the Bible in mind all throughout creation.

Second, what makes you think the creator of the universe would want to do something with such little tact as to just go in front of everyone and say "Hi guys, I'm God?" I would be disappointed with something so brash, but then, I have come to love His Subtlety.

Originally posted by Minnie1985

me and my husband, we both genuinely asked God to show us the truth
within a short space of time our eyes were opened and we both realised at the same moment that we knew God existed, there is absolutely no doubt about it in our minds at all, it was that easy!

please would you explain how it happened? what did you see was gods response to you asking for truth, what did god show you? that convinced you

homepage for a mass of essenes articles www.thenazareneway.com...

more than enough material here to get lost in 'the way'!