For those who think it is irresponsible not to get vaccinated

reply to post by thebtheb


Well said. I find a lot of pro-vaccine people have an almost kind of hatred for those who don't get vaccinated. It seems they think we are a danger to the public. My response is if your vaccines are so safe and effective, then what are you so worried about? Since you are vaccinated that means you are protected, right? People that believe everyone should be vaccinated against their will and it should be mandatory are the real danger.

reply to post by thebtheb


There is a Whooping cough outbreak in the United States directly attributed to the lack of people getting vaccinated against it. Jenny McCarthy mislead a great deal of people coming out against vaccines and attempting to blame their usage on autism. While it is true that since the early 90's autism is on the rise, that was not the case in the 60's/70's and 80's when it was a given that you vaccinated your child.

Allowing the viruses that cause these outbreaks back into a general population also allows them to mutate, which renders the vaccine useless. We should have NEVER tried to fix what was not broken.

Originally posted by tim181
Just a thought if you have been injected why worry if some one has not been. you will not get it. (or will you)

Why are viruses so successful? Because they mutate. Introduce them BACK into a population where there were eradicated allows for the virus to once again succeed at thriving - by mutating. This renders the original vaccine useless.

It's not a question of morality. it's basic science.

The pharmeceutical industry lobbied for, and received, legislation giving them immunity from lawsuits resulting from the adverse effects of vaccines. If the vaccines are safe, why would they need immunity from lawsuits?

No vaccines for me.

reply to post by luciddream


Yeah you can get polio from the polio vaccine. I believe there was a horrible incident a few years ago in India where the vaccine caused worse damages then what the people were being treated for.

Polio Vaccine

reply to post by SilentE


If I were in the same situation, I would not want my wife to have it. They advise women not to drink. smoke, or do drugs, so why inject her with a vaccine. Many things can have an impact on the health of a fetus, I'd reduce that risk as much as possible. Just my .02

I stopped vaccinating my children years ago, since then I have not had to go to the hospital for ANY reason at all. No ear infections, sever coughs, respiratory infections, etc,. If for any reason I am asked when was the last time I have been or my children have been to the hospital I really have to think really hard, and people look at me strangely.

There is nothing really that can not be prevented. My neighbor disagrees with me, and her daughter came home with scarlet fever.... YES.. scarlet fever. Her kids are in and out of the hospital all the time, she still thinks its from children that are not vaccinated, and I let her know that a little bit of research never hurt anybody.

Peace, NRE.

Vaccines in general are not in my wheelhouse. I know there are some required and arguably trusted and effective vaccines that some folks swear by. I know our campaign agains Polio in Rotary is very effective worldwide. My big beef comes when they are "mandatory". That makes my tin foil hat glow.

reply to post by Merlin Lawndart


Its not an issue of invidual but the community as a whole news.health.com...

My kid developed diabetes type 1 after chicken pox, chicken pox vaccination is not mandatory in my country and believe me if i knew chicken pox is the one which triggered this i would have had him vaccinated to that.

As stated before if you are healthy and are vaccinated there is not much to be scared about of those unvaccinated, BUT if you have underlying disease like diabetes type 1 you are in great RISK. If you have a baby not vaccinated yet she/he is in RISK. Your elderly people are in RISK. There is bunch of people who are at RISK when you are not vaccinated and are ill.

I'm an RN working in administration. This morning I received "Why Hospital Workers Should Be Forced to Get Flu Shots" By Arthur L. Caplan, PhD, who is the head of the New York University Langone Medical Center in New York City Division of Medical Ethics.
He thinks, as the title indicates, that all medical professionals should get the flu vaccine. I'd post the link, but it takes a subscription to get the article.
What I find funny is that he wants to FORCE medical professionals to get the annual flu shot (which is proven to be ineffective in numerous studies. Just google it).
Why is that funny? He's the head of Ethics. And he wants to FORCE people to get the flu shot. Maybe it's just me, but I detect a lack of ethics in that plan.
Meanwhile, The Joint Commission on Healthcare is telling me I have to start tracking every employee who does and does not get the flu shot starting next year. We must improve our % each year. Now what could this be leading up to?
He states that flu shot compliance is just too low amongst us nurses and doctors. Gee, I wonder why? Maybe we know better. Maybe we've read the studies published in the British Journal of Medicine and many others, and the general population has not.
The day I'm told I must submit to ineffective gunpoint medicine is the day I quit my RN job.

Originally posted by flashtrum
reply to post by thebtheb

 

There is a Whooping cough outbreak in the United States directly attributed to the lack of people getting vaccinated against it. Jenny McCarthy mislead a great deal of people coming out against vaccines and attempting to blame their usage on autism. While it is true that since the early 90's autism is on the rise, that was not the case in the 60's/70's and 80's when it was a given that you vaccinated your child.

Allowing the viruses that cause these outbreaks back into a general population also allows them to mutate, which renders the vaccine useless. We should have NEVER tried to fix what was not broken.

Whooping cough did not fully disappear. There have been outbreaks of almost everything throughout the decades that people have been getting vaccinated for including measles, whooping cough, etc. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the outbreak in the US is because of people not vaccinating, only a suggestion that remains unproven.

Yes, autism was not the case in the 60s,70s and 80s, and children still got vaccinated. And yes, autism did explode in the early 90s, just a couple of short years after childhood vaccinations more than tripled. In the 70s, there were so many vaccinations, really just a couple. By the early 90s, kids were receiving, 4, 5, 6 times the amount of vaccines they did just a decade earlier. So it would be very easy to make a case that the problems started directly after the new recommendations for so many more vaccinations.

And your last statement is true - we should NOT have tried to fix what was never broken. Giving all newborns a hepatitis B shot is one of the stupidest things they could do. Hepatitis B is gotten from: a blood transfusion, unprotected sex, intravenous drugs, or passed on from the birth mother. Exactly how many babies fall into those categories. And by the time they're 10, the antibodies are gone, so they have to have another one - so the first one is essentially useless.

Originally posted by flashtrum

Originally posted by tim181
Just a thought if you have been injected why worry if some one has not been. you will not get it. (or will you)

Why are viruses so successful? Because they mutate. Introduce them BACK into a population where there were eradicated allows for the virus to once again succeed at thriving - by mutating. This renders the original vaccine useless.

It's not a question of morality. it's basic science.

Vaccines themselves can ostensibly make a virus mutate.

Originally posted by Lostmymarbles
reply to post by luciddream

 

Yeah you can get polio from the polio vaccine. I believe there was a horrible incident a few years ago in India where the vaccine caused worse damages then what the people were being treated for.

Polio Vaccine

Not just India, many third world countries got a version of Polio that is dubbed vaccine polio - derived FROM the vaccine, and it is a much more destructive version of polio than original polio. The virus mutated through the vaccine and was administered through the vaccine.

Originally posted by SilentE
This is something that has been causing me headaches lately.
There has been an outbreak of the whooping cough here in England. That is what the media has been spreading anyway. Now they want pregnant women to have this whooping cough vaccine and my missus is expecting our second child due in March. They want her to have it in a few weeks and i'm not ok with that.
We never had any with our first child and he's been healthy etc. I don't know what to do....
What troubles me is if she doesn't have the vaccine and our newborn comes down with this whooping cough I would feel terrible. I'm at a loss of what to do....

I really feel for you both. Having BTDT I can only give this wee piece of unsolicited advice: whatever you both decide, don't torture yourselves about the decision later. I did this after being pregnant with my first (agonized over the decision and then agonized after the fact) and the stress was probably worse for me than anything else.

Originally posted by dollukka
reply to post by Merlin Lawndart

 

Its not an issue of invidual but the community as a whole news.health.com...

My kid developed diabetes type 1 after chicken pox, chicken pox vaccination is not mandatory in my country and believe me if i knew chicken pox is the one which triggered this i would have had him vaccinated to that.

As stated before if you are healthy and are vaccinated there is not much to be scared about of those unvaccinated, BUT if you have underlying disease like diabetes type 1 you are in great RISK. If you have a baby not vaccinated yet she/he is in RISK. Your elderly people are in RISK. There is bunch of people who are at RISK when you are not vaccinated and are ill.

Again, you are ignoring the entire point of my OP: vaccinated people can pass on the disease! So vaccinated people are risking the health of others JUST AS EASILY!

Originally posted by RoyBatty

Originally posted by SilentE
This is something that has been causing me headaches lately.
There has been an outbreak of the whooping cough here in England. That is what the media has been spreading anyway. Now they want pregnant women to have this whooping cough vaccine and my missus is expecting our second child due in March. They want her to have it in a few weeks and i'm not ok with that.
We never had any with our first child and he's been healthy etc. I don't know what to do....
What troubles me is if she doesn't have the vaccine and our newborn comes down with this whooping cough I would feel terrible. I'm at a loss of what to do....

I really feel for you both. Having BTDT I can only give this wee piece of unsolicited advice: whatever you both decide, don't torture yourselves about the decision later. I did this after being pregnant with my first (agonized over the decision and then agonized after the fact) and the stress was probably worse for me than anything else.

I agree. It's a hard decision, but either one carries whichever risks. You have to decide what you think is best, and go with it.

Originally posted by Lostmymarbles
reply to post by luciddream

 

Yeah you can get polio from the polio vaccine. I believe there was a horrible incident a few years ago in India where the vaccine caused worse damages then what the people were being treated for.

Polio Vaccine

That happened here with the oral polio BS they floated. Yeah, lets squirt some polio in infants mouths.. doesnt matter if it was weakened, still was live and there was risk even to parents changing diapers.

My cousin had polio.. then again I wonder what grade of vaccine they give rez kids. Maybe the ones no one else will take. Given that was in the late 60's.. but wow. It was all supposed to be NO live poliovirus.. yet he got polio? Coincidence?? WHo knows. If you look enough, youll find contaminated batches caught in the 60's.. some simian virus contaminated it all. Then you have in australia them testing vaccines in orphanages. There is a really nefarious dabbling in vaccines.. when they SHOULD be a wonderful thing for us. All about money and BS I guess, like everything else these days. Youll never know if youre getting a contaminated batch until youre sick.. or dead.. and then you cant sue even for money to cover your or your childs medical care.

I personally don't get the flu vaccine, and my work offers it for free. Most other employees end up sick in the following months, im usually fine, except for colds that my kids bring home from school. For those that say you cause harm to others is bs, even if you are vaccinated you can still carry the virus. I wouldn't allow my kids to get the swine flu vaccine back when that whole things started taking off and we are all fine. I allowed the necessary vaccine that the state requires for school but other then that now thanks.

reply to post by thebtheb


I believe the amount of vaccinated people to do so is extremely minimal. In my country we have about 98% of our people vaccinated and we have no serious outbreaks of measles or anything in such a scale as there is in US.

Last year there was 9 people who got measles in my country , unvaccinated kid got measles from another country all of those 9 patients had either no vaccines against measles or had only one shot ( vaccine program gives two ) and all these people got this from this unvaccinated kid. No one who had been vaccinated got that.

This is not US we still mostly eat healthy home cooked meals and lots of fresh vegetables and not a trash food like ppl do in US. I have lived in US so i basicly know what kind of crap you have on your dinner plates. If you have that size of outbreaks of measles as i linked before there must be something seriously wrong in your vaccination programs. maybe you should eat healthier too.

Originally posted by MadQuacker
I personally don't get the flu vaccine, and my work offers it for free. Most other employees end up sick in the following months, im usually fine, except for colds that my kids bring home from school. For those that say you cause harm to others is bs, even if you are vaccinated you can still carry the virus. I wouldn't allow my kids to get the swine flu vaccine back when that whole things started taking off and we are all fine. I allowed the necessary vaccine that the state requires for school but other then that now thanks.

My husband wont either.. I just pump him full of fresh Elderberry juice and Sambucol... hasnt had the flu since. WHen I worked in healthcare.. flu shots were demanded. I figured that since they cant immunize EVERY strain of the flu Id take my chances as I was going to get exposed to more strains than Id be covered for. Where I worked its a wonder I didnt wind up with Ebola.

I misspoke.. not exactly "fresh". I pick and can the juice and use it later in the year. You can buy the concentrate from a healthfood store or online, but me picking it and doing it myself just seemed the right way to go.