The Great Delusion: EVIDENCE of Babylon in America and Israel

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

Christianity IS pagan. A large amount of its traditions and rituals, its messages and its symbology, are pagan in origin. Take almost any symbol or ritual in Christianity and you'll find eerily similar, if not identical, versions in cultures that preceded Jesus by hundreds or thousands of years. I thought we settled this?

edit on 5-10-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Just because men have brought in dogma and pagan rituals into the churches of Christianity does not make faith in Christ Jesus pagan. Jesus asked His faithful to worship Our Father in spirit and truth whilst avoiding the doctrines of men. He couldn't have been more clear.

There are no sources of "eerily simila versionsr" of Christ Jesus that exist from a time before Christ Jesus. Repeating this oft used Internet droll is just repeating lies and deception. Every single "claim" out there on the net is unsubstantiated and arises from sources which date from a time period post Jesus. The only reason they exist, at all, is to deceive. Innocents questioning God's existence are instantly met with hundreds of sites claiming the same thing, yet just a little research shows that no "sources" of these supposed versions predate Jesus.

Go figure. Satan is a liar and a deceiver.

reply to post by Bleeeeep

I'm not sure you understand what I said so let me reiterate...

You are being fooled by Mystery Babylon.

I know what you're saying, and I'm telling you I have historical proof that everything you worship is not Christian in origin. The real contention, of course, is whether or not you'll listen. Chances are, you'll proclaim me possessed and refuse to consider another word I post.

The root word of ignorance is 'ignore'. Are you ignoring what I'm telling you? Are you ignoring what I can show you? Shall I gather members together and compile a complete history of pagan religion and draw all the massive parallels between those precedent religions that have been degraded by your supposedly flawless Christianity and the principles that your Christianity holds in such great esteem?

Perhaps it's about time that I spent a few days on such a project. Building a massive thesis in which every Christian tradition is taken back to its source, and Christianity revealed for the thieving plagiarism it was born of.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

Just because men have brought in dogma and pagan rituals into the churches of Christianity does not make faith in Christ Jesus pagan. Jesus asked His faithful to worship Our Father in spirit and truth whilst avoiding the doctrines of men. He couldn't have been more clear.

No? So you're going to practice a faith that demonizes witchcraft and all nature worship, despite the fact that a large percentage of its most valued principles come from faiths that revolved around nature?

Since men brought paganism into the picture, Christianity is no longer purely Christianity. If I were to take excerpts from a dozen books, write my own book, and tactfully inserted those excerpts without giving due credit, and when so far as to claim those snippets as my own, does that make me an author? Or a plagiarizer?

Because even your Jesus is a pagan symbol.

I haven't had a chance to fully read this thread, but I would like to offer my comments about your first point. The layout of Washington DC, from its inception, was meant to be NON-RELIGIOUS. That was the point. The founding fathers who planned the city and some of its buildings wanted to send the message that this would be a country ruled by reason, and not by religion. The designs that can be made out are not religious in nature at all, and just like many other symbols, can be spun any way one wishes. The swastika for example...?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Or, one could say that any intersection of similarity between Christianity and various pagans of antiquity is merely due to what the pagans got right in the grand scheme of things. The other side of that argument can also be that some things the pagans believed were a perversion of the truth to take away worship from the true God.

Either way it doesn't matter. Paganism is not considered stagnant. It is constantly evolving and modern forms are different from the ancient forms.

However, they do have their reconstructionist elements. Those folks can claim whatever they like, but it does not diminish the fact that neopagans in general (and wiccans in particular) are very often guilty of historical revisionism to suit their purposes. It is essentially nauseating to continually encounter the unfounded claims of the perfect pre-Christian peaceful pagan utopia mythos that permeates all of these neopagan groups.

The Christians didn't steal anything from them. Earlier peoples tended to give up their old ways to become Christians. They destroyed their own temples to build churches in their places, etcetera. It worked that way in Greece.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

The only reason they exist, at all, is to deceive.

That statement is the deception. Everything is the devil, except the devil. Or, only define God as you define it.

The world is flat, and at the center of everything. Don't sail to far or you'll fall off.

Stuck in the Middle Ages.

reply to post by LeSigh

Or, one could say that any intersection of similarity between Christianity and various pagans of antiquity is merely due to what the pagans got right in the grand scheme of things.

This line of logic is utterly worthless. I would explain it, but I'd have to do it through the blinding agony of a concussion from beating my head against the nearest unyielding surface. It's like talking to a child. A stubborn child.

"Because I said so!" Right. 'Kay.

It is essentially nauseating to continually encounter the unfounded claims of the perfect pre-Christian peaceful pagan utopia mythos that permeates all of these neopagan groups.

Sounds like Christianity. "Our god is bigger and badder than your god!"

The Christians didn't steal anything from them. Earlier peoples tended to give up their old ways to become Christians. They destroyed their own temples to build churches in their places, etcetera. It worked that way in Greece.

Oh, like the Crusades? Because of the "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"? Yeah.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You still do not understand.

You are telling me that you will disprove Christianity with Mystery Babylon.

This is like saying you will prove OJ Simpson never existed by showing me a tiny leather glove.

I know some Christians do practice pagan rituals but that is not what Christianity is - that is what Mystery Babylon is.

Originally posted by DarkKnight21

Originally posted by renegadeloser
It's too bad that you have most of your information completely wrong. The myth you recounted is actually the myth of Osiris, Isis, and Horus. Basically you took that myth, and through in some descriptions given of nimrod in the bible. I looked into the actual mythology of Tammuz, his mother isn't even semiramus, instead her name was Ishtar (as you mentioned), or known to the babylonians as Innan.

renegadeloser,

You can trace Osiris, Isis and Horus back to Babylon. They are depicted just the same as Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz, respectively. This is not only biblical but there is an overwhelming amount of archeological evidence to support it as well.

From muzzleflash's Babylon topic:

Cush, (son of Ham, or grandson of Noah) was married to Semiramis. They became rulers of the original great city. Cush died but his wife Semiramis gave birth to their son, Nimrod. Semiramis then married Nimrod her son.

Shem, son of Noah and founder of the Semite lineage, killed Nimrod and cut his body into (12?) pieces. Semiramis told her followers that in order to bring him back to life, she needed to recover these pieces and reconstruct his body. They found all pieces except for one, his genitals.

Therefore Semiramis told the people that Nimrod had ascended to the Sun and became the "Sun God" named "Ba'al". She then became pregnant with a son, and claimed that the 'rays of the sun god' had impregnated her, and declared she was a virgin. This son's name was Tammuz.

Semiramis declared that she was born from an Egg (the Ishtar Egg) which fell from the Moon which she declared was the Goddess, and it fell into the Euphrates River and hatched. She was also referred to as the 'Golden Dove'.

An interesting video also from that thread:

Ishtar and Semiramis are one in the same. In fact, Easter derives its name from "Ishtar", also known as the moon god. This is a good example of how pagan traditions were incorporated into Roman Catholicism to pollute the teachings of Christ.

Hope that helps.

Peace,
DK

edit on 10/5/2012 by DarkKnight21 because: (no reason given)

Yes, but, in no part of the Babylonian myth does Ishtar (or semiramis), collect the twelve body parts of tammuz, with the member missing. Nor does Ishtar claim to have been born from an egg, this is again Isis. Shem doesn't chop Tammuz into 12 pieces, rather Set cuts Horus into 12 pieces. These story elements are unique to the Egyptian versions. Of course there are parallels, however, some of the information quoted here is blatantly false.

It's easy to say that Tammuz and Horus are one in the same, and then just tell the Egyptian myth, replacing it with biblical versions of Babylonian names. But, you don't provide any sources for these specific story elements in actual babylonian accounts that have been recovered archeologically. Yes the Horus, Isis, Osiris myth is another rendition of these other myths, but to state that the myths are Identical is misleading.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The fact that you gloss over the fact that these pagans were far from peaceful and were often the aggressors speaks volumes. Of course I consider my God to be superior to other gods (who were/are often nothing more than beings that were created by Him in the first place). If you think any pagan influences are supposed to bother Christians, it really doesn't. Anything we kept was consecrated to Christ long ago.

And- lest you forget- who were the victims of one of the Crusades? Ah- the West victimizing the Christian East. And the other Crusades were due to Muslim aggression. Yeah- not a good example.

Oh, and do lay off the ad hom attacks, if you will. That seems to be a common affliction here at ATS.

reply to post by Bleeeeep

This is like saying you will prove OJ Simpson never existed by showing me a tiny leather glove.

NO, but I can tell you that nations wage war in the name of peace.

What does that tell you about the written record? The written record as written by men. As written by the victors. In the name of God?

In light of all this occultic symbolism, we can infer that America was built on pagan ideals.

The cities and architecture, yes, but who moved us all here? Was it not Our God who brought our ancestors here? Millions of Christians built this land and raised their children, who lived safely and freely worshipped - all led by and built by Our Lord and King, Christ Jesus. And now their descendants, unnknowingly swayed to worship the golden calf and golden statue instead of the Creator of Heaven and Earth, cannot see that the builders of those Masonic and occultic pagan structures have completely done the very same thing that the leaders and teachers of the Jews did to their own populace 2,000 years ago - made them the children of hell by convincing them to want the devil instead of the Son of God. There truly is nothing new under the sun. What was, will be again.

reply to post by LeSigh

The fact that you gloss over the fact that these pagans were far from peaceful and were often the aggressors speaks volumes.

They were human. Such things go without saying. There is, however, a difference between using violence as a medium, and using violence as a righteous act. Many pagans never pretended their violence was righteous, they simply used it as a means to an end. Christianity uses violence as tool of righteousness. More simply put, pagans didn't pretend that they were doing the right thing when they hurt people. Christians do. And if it is brought to their attention, they use the fabricated demons they see in others as justification for their own foul deeds.

Of course I consider my God to be superior to other gods (who were/are often nothing more than beings that were created by Him in the first place).

Makes sense, considering many gods were worshipped before his name was ever invented. The term 'god' is not Christian. Should we check the etymology?

Oddly, the exact history of the word God is unknown. The word God is a relatively new European invention, which was never used in any of the ancient Judaeo-Christian scripture manuscripts that were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin.

According to the best efforts of linguists and researchers, the root of the present word God is the Sanskrit word hu which means to call upon, invoke, implore.

Oh, my...would you look at that? It just so happens that my personal belief, which is NOT based on dogma, is that the creator - or Source, as I call it - is an ethereal entity composed of energies that we have not yet entirely isolated. Noetics delves rather deeply into the subject, should you care to actually research these things. What I find interesting is the phrase "to call upon". What exactly are we calling upon?

Why, the ether, which exists both outside and within us. The realm of 'thought'. So when we call upon this "God", we actually call upon energies that surround and pervade our beings, which then has a physical impact upon our reality because that energy pervades all of our reality as well.

Now isn't THAT interesting?

And- lest you forget- who were the victims of one of the Crusades? Ah- the West victimizing the Christian East. And the other Crusades were due to Muslim aggression. Yeah- not a good example.

How many examples can you provide of people executing Christians for refusing to convert, besides Islam?

Oh, and do lay off the ad hom attacks, if you will. That seems to be a common affliction here at ATS.

That wouldn't be a problem if you weren't so bent on dissociating the negative repercussions and methods of the Christian past. Additionally, all of this is interrelated, so if you're trying to establish a zone of relevancy, I can connect the dots for everyone keeping track of our discussion. Just point it out and I'll clarify.

reply to post by intrptr


Are you trying to say no wars end conflicts?

Are you trying to say some records are false thus no record is ever to be trusted?

Are you trying to say all wars waged in the name of God were either appointed by God or else none were?

reply to post by Bleeeeep

Are you trying to say all wars waged in the name of God were either appointed by God or else none were?

Anything done in the name of this deity had to have been approved by this deity, or all the soldiers would have been swallowed up by the earth or something. That's what we're taught, right? You can't do anything in the name of "God" without "God"s approval or you'll pay dearly for it.

What a way to look at it, eh? Think of all the atrocities committed in the name of "God". Wow. You seem to be implying that someone can claim "God"s favor but not have it, and still be able to rain death and destruction on anyone he doesn't like, and give "God" all the credit? Even while "God" exists?

reply to post by DarkKnight21


The stars above the eagle in the dollar bill forms a "Magen David", which in reality had nothing to do with David, but in actuality is really the Seal of Saturn, later called the Seal of Solomon and is the "star of your gods" spoken of in Amos 5:26.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

The stars above the eagle in the dollar bill forms a "Magen David", which in reality had nothing to do with David, but in actuality is really the Seal of Saturn, later called the Seal of Solomon and is the "star of your gods" spoken of in Amos 5:26.

edit on 5-10-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

It represents 666

reply to post by Bleeeeep

Are you trying to say no wars end conflicts?

I prefer the peace of the bargaining table to the peace of the grave. I think JFK said that. They killed him and started the Vietnam war.

Are you trying to say some records are false thus no record is ever to be trusted?

Especially "historical" records.

Are you trying to say all wars waged in the name of God were either appointed by God or else none were?

I say this. Every side claims to have God on their side. And every side uses that excuse as the primary justification for wars. Governments are quick to make any call to arms sound like duty to God and Country. Right?

And the enemy is usually the heathen or infidel... evil. Right?

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Since our religion is the only good religion and our god the one true god, then all others are the devil, right? And since they are following the devil they are going to hell, right? And that gives us the right to kill all the heathens. Since they are going to hell anyway we might as well send them there. Right?

People don't realize that conditioning thru religion begins at an early age to accept dogma that later serves the government when they declare war and need people to fight it for them. They just invoke symbols like the flag and words like God, duty and country. Its that simple. Its right in front of every ones eyes and yet they are blinded by the other religious edict they were taught... never question your belief . All efforts to get you to question your belief system are the evil ones trying to lead you "astray".

Wars are started by governments. What happened to turn the other cheek?

Why do we have to kill them back? Instead, lets try and set an example of forgiveness. It stops the call for war dead. There is no war if nations practice forgiveness. The US has been taking advantage of that Muslim principle for some time now. The warmongers see it as weakness. So be it. What goes around, comes around. There will be a reckoning. And not by men.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

Was it not Our God who brought our ancestors here? Millions of Christians built this land and raised their children, who lived safely and freely worshipped -

Yah, once they exterminated the Indians, killed the Mexicans and drove them south. Then they enslaved peoples from Africa and when they ran out of humans or "savages" to victimize, they killed all the buffalo and cut down all the forests to make wooden spittoons and sawdust the streets to soak up the urine and blood. When they got bored and ran out of victims they killed each other in the American Civil War. Then they went right back to killing Indians and conquering even more nations like Hawaii, Cuba, Panama, the Phillipines, Alaska.

Grrr... I hate it when people say we used to be civilized. Being "civilized" has nothing to do with being Civil. "Civilization" is dead. Its a lie.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

Was it not Our God who brought our ancestors here? Millions of Christians built this land and raised their children, who lived safely and freely worshipped -

Yah, once they exterminated the Indians, killed the Mexicans and drove them south. Then they enslaved peoples from Africa and when they ran out of humans or "savages" to victimize, they killed all the buffalo and cut down all the forests to make wooden spittoons and sawdust the streets to soak up the urine and blood. When they got bored and ran out of victims they killed each other in the American Civil War. Then they went right back to killing Indians and conquering even more nations like Hawaii, Cuba, Panama, the Phillipines, Alaska.

Grrr... I hate it when people say we used to be civilized. Being "civilized" has nothing to do with being Civil. "Civilization" is dead. Its a lie.

Im still lmao with this post...... its not funny.... its true... and boy is the truth hard to swallow sometimes.

You nailed it though....