Paranormal Witness on SyFy: Travis Walton case

Originally posted by ProfessorT
What people need to learn, especially in this thread is that the people doubting this story and the question of whether Aliens and UFO's exist will always try to get rid of the facts, not opinions, the actual facts of what happened. In this case there is more evidence to prove what happened to Travis Walton rather than disprove. I love the way people resort to going through the background of Walton and his friends/family as if to discredit him and the story. I'm no psychologist but watching that documentary last night opened my eyes to this phenomena. Whether Walton was abducted (which the polygraph tests and hypnosis suggest did happen) or not its clear something took place during that evening. I feel so sorry for Walton and those that witnessed what happened because of all of the critique they have received.

Exactly, I feel that I must rant a little more on this subject and discussion at hand. This is directed at no person in particular. I for one am not concerned with opinions but the facts and it would be nice if most people were concerned with fact finding. Not everyone is ready to accept the prospect of aliens for a variety of inherit issues. Here the naysayer assassinates Walton's character and paints a picture of the man as a huckster. And if someone is interested in a topic like UFO's and if one was to ever abduct him then he can no longer be considered credible. Or if you are financially in debt and witness something unexplained you better not talk about it because there is a cash cow waiting for you at the end of the rainbow.

I just have to shake my head at the failed logic behind this concept, we are all contaminated with images of science fiction. And would be aliens being shown on the tube yet if something unexplained that resembles what we have seen on the tube to make some comparison cant be considered in to question. And who's to say the little green guys in our tubes were something that was depicted out of urban myth before abductions. Or that it was drawn on a wall in a cave in Australia. And if I watched Star Trek as a kid and Star Wars and one day seen a UFO then well.. its because Gene Roddenberry or Lucas implanted that image before hand according to the logic of said proclaimed skeptic. That is not skepticism that is projecting closed mindedness. Constructing walls to disbelief to protect thyself from the prospect of alien abduction ever occurring in reality. But yeah I agree


just my 2 cents

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Polygraph Reliability 'Little Better Than Chance' Operators Can Easily Affect Results

Polygraphs Are Not Reliable in Detecting Lies

Et cetera. Then you come up with:

Travis Walton wiki

"Based on his reaction on all charts, it is the opinion of this examiner that Walton, in concert with others, is attempting to perpetrate a UFO hoax, and that he has not been on any spacecraft"

John J McCarthy, of the Arizona Polygraph Laboratory

Wow, just wow. I fell backwards from my chair due to the gush of stupidity. First you make a small effort to illustrate the unreliability of polygraph tests. But then you cite McCarthy who administers such tests and who feels that a certain polygraph result shows Walton lying. Now, which is it? Reliable, or not? If the latter, then McCarthy's opinion is equally worthless. Either way, your poor reasoning skills are obvious.

"The best-known and most influential of all UFO skeptics was Philip J. Klass (1919-2005), longtime Senior Avionics editor of Aviation Week and Space Technology magazine in Washington, DC, and one of the founding fellows of CSICOP. Klass wrote many letters and made many phone calls to people involved in the story, including Travis' family, the local Sheriff's office, polygraph examiners, etc. He found strong reasons to brand the entire story a hoax. His conclusions were written up in great detail in chapters 18-23 of his book UFOs The Public Deceived (Prometheus, 1983)."

Once you read what Klass went through, any other source pro-abduction will pale in comparison. And Klass is not alone, of course, as a Google search will show. This case is kept alive by believers who do not require nor demand evidence and they're a satisfied bunch.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Well, one thing's for sure. We just don't get cases like this anymore. We really haven't had a good, high-profile abduction case with an interesting story about creepy aliens for at least 20 years. Yeah, you get the occasional individual who gets spirited out of their bed at night and has a crazy story to tell, but nothing so public or detailed or newsworthy involving multiple people.

I guess the aliens found out everything they needed to know from us and haven't really been bothering us much since.

Maybe...

This is all assuming that some of these cases are genuine.

I often wonder if a 20-30 year observation and sampling took place.

And then it stopped. Maybe we started defending ourselves? Maybe they were done.

Or maybe none of it was real and human irrationality is at work.

Who knows.

But even if you discount the abduction cases, there's still a lot of cases.

Nick Pope recently said, in response to skeptics, "The believers only have to be right once." He's right, but what if he had been saying this in response to atheists??

Bottom line, lets stick to the evidence. We can't count on eyewitnesses. The evidence thus far seems to tell us something has happened, but I don't think anything is certain.

In my view, our knowledge of the cosmos is more significant than the evidence we have about UFOs to argue that there're intelligence civilizations out there somewhere.

Look here:
io9.com - A Game-Changer in the Search for Alien Life: “All stars have planets”...
www.skymania.com - Billions of Earth-like worlds in Milky Way...
www.space.com - New Estimate for Alien Earths: 2 Billion in Our Galaxy Alone...
www.spacedaily.com -
Free-floating planets in the Milky Way outnumber stars by factors of thousands...
www.foxnews.com - Was a Giant Planet Ejected From Our Solar System?...
www.newscientist.com - Tough Earth bug may be from Mars...

This makes for interesting reading:
www.dailygalaxy.com - Did DNA-Based Life Begin in Nebula & Interstellar Clouds?...
questional.com - Dr. Chandra Wickramasinghe - Physicist, Poet, and Science Legend...

Those links say more than I could ever say in a single post and more clearly.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
snip
Nick Pope recently said, in response to skeptics, "The believers only have to be right once." He's right, but what if he had been saying this in response to atheists??
snip

You are mixing religion with clear thinking. Atheism has nothing to do with UFOs or alleged aliens and claims of alien abductions. Atheism is the non-acceptance of religious beliefs which is void of evidence. I think you meant to say skeptics for skepticism is the result of claims not supported by evidence.

Sounds like a few things were left out and some things inserted to throw us off.
Granted after an FBI briefing aliens were involved.
So forget the alien part.
I have seen this discussed and the incident may have went like this:

Travis was most likely lifted up and knocked down to the ground by getting too
close to the ship. The crew ran off and the ship crew had to take him to the
Arizona ship base for a medical report. Most likely being drugged to disable
is ability to function well, awoke and went through the base seeing some UFO
ships. He was tackle and drugged. All he saw were humans at the base.
Since he was now OK and drugged he was sent back to the area of the mishap.
Both times on the ship he was unconscious and saw no aliens.

The ship crew could not go off with Travis lying on the ground and his crew ran
off with no one to help him. One of the easiest sightings to determine because
it actually happened.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


Does it not make sense to you that Travis and his family are "UFO buffs" because of where they live? Sightings are quite common in that part of the country, and subsequently many of those who reside within the southwest are interested in all the stories and what they are actually seeing. What you equate to wild fantasies, I, along with the Wlaton family see as a quest for answers.

Could it not just be that one of those many who is interested in the sightings, was abducted?
It isn't right to see the situation from reverse only. From abduction to UFO books etc.....
Look at it from another view. Himself and loved ones were curious about the skies, and later he not only saw something matching those stories, but had a close encounter of the 4th kind.

There are many angles at work here, and to use the fact that he was into UFOs, as a tool for debunking the story is not sufficient. Millions of people are interested in UFOs.
If ET visitation is a real thing........do they have a rule which dictates they only abduct skeptics?
Think about what you're saying.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Well, one thing's for sure. We just don't get cases like this anymore. We really haven't had a good, high-profile abduction case with an interesting story about creepy aliens for at least 20 years. Yeah, you get the occasional individual who gets spirited out of their bed at night and has a crazy story to tell, but nothing so public or detailed or newsworthy involving multiple people.

I guess the aliens found out everything they needed to know from us and haven't really been bothering us much since.

I have to agree that these sort of incidents seem to have decreased considerably in frequency. I might go further and say that "interesting UFO incidents" have gone into a steep decrease and have been basically declining for decades.

I doubt that this is due to a decrease in reporting. But there seems to have been a substantial increase in reporting of very typical LITS (Lights In The Sky) incidents - planets, stars, airplanes, satellites, fire lanterns.

I don't mean to imply there are no good sightings, but I think that people just seem to be in total awe when they see anything out of the ordinary. And most people come from cities where there is so much light pollution, they probably are very unacquainted with normal night astronomical phenomena. Plus there are many craft with unusual lighting, toy remotes with LEDs, etc.

The "golden age" of ufology has probably passed decades ago.


But I'll add a link to one possible abduction that wasn't from a bedroom. It is similar to the Allagash abduction in some ways.
Jacko Lake Encounter

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by kerazeesicko

 

There are many angles at work here, and to use the fact that he was into UFOs, as a tool for debunking the story is not sufficient. Millions of people are interested in UFOs.
If ET visitation is a real thing........do they have a rule which dictates they only abduct skeptics?
Think about what you're saying.

Its not only unsuffcient but stupid and the folks that dream up this sort of answer are just stupid fools. I dont care what sort of papers they have.

Originally posted by The Shrike
"The best-known and most influential of all UFO skeptics was Philip J. Klass (1919-2005), longtime Senior Avionics editor of Aviation Week and Space Technology magazine in Washington, DC, and one of the founding fellows of CSICOP. Klass wrote many letters and made many phone calls to people involved in the story, including Travis' family, the local Sheriff's office, polygraph examiners, etc. He found strong reasons to brand the entire story a hoax. His conclusions were written up in great detail in chapters 18-23 of his book UFOs The Public Deceived (Prometheus, 1983)."

Once you read what Klass went through, any other source pro-abduction will pale in comparison. And Klass is not alone, of course, as a Google search will show. This case is kept alive by believers who do not require nor demand evidence and they're a satisfied bunch.

Did Klass ever get on the ground out there and try to talk to folks face to face? I can think of many reasons this type of phone and letter exam would fail to impress Klass himself or anyone involved. And I can tell you from personal knowlege that the larger deception of the UFO issue is in the coverup not in the hoax.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by The Shrike
"The best-known and most influential of all UFO skeptics was Philip J. Klass (1919-2005), longtime Senior Avionics editor of Aviation Week and Space Technology magazine in Washington, DC, and one of the founding fellows of CSICOP. Klass wrote many letters and made many phone calls to people involved in the story, including Travis' family, the local Sheriff's office, polygraph examiners, etc. He found strong reasons to brand the entire story a hoax. His conclusions were written up in great detail in chapters 18-23 of his book UFOs The Public Deceived (Prometheus, 1983)."

Once you read what Klass went through, any other source pro-abduction will pale in comparison. And Klass is not alone, of course, as a Google search will show. This case is kept alive by believers who do not require nor demand evidence and they're a satisfied bunch.

Did Klass ever get on the ground out there and try to talk to folks face to face? I can think of many reasons this type of phone and letter exam would fail to impress Klass himself or anyone involved. And I can tell you from personal knowlege that the larger deception of the UFO issue is in the coverup not in the hoax.

In claims of alleged alien abductions you have to ask yourself, not anyone else, if you accept the claim as real or imagined. On the one hand you have claimants whose behavior is ultimately questionable. The main claimant's reasons for perpetuating a hoax are clear and the bottom line is that it's easier to prove a hoax than it is to sustain an inacceptable claim.

Is it necessary to talk to folks face to face? No. Once you have variying reports, then the claim is questionable. Once you have sworn to documentation, people are put on the spot. When sources show reason for wanting certain statements, after offering money, those statements are suspect.

I think Klass dug in deeper than others but those others came up with the same results plus additional details.

Anyway, look at photos of Travis Walton. Does he look like an honest person? To me he doesn't. Was Whitley Strieber abducted? I do not accept such an author's claims. Both Walton and Strieber share one factor: Walton smelled money and Strieber knows how to make it.

reply to post by The Shrike


Its funny that police put a lot of stock in body language but a well know UFO investigator can come to conclusions without it. Even MUFON records interviews to have experts read face and tone. To me a long distance investigation like this smacks of a certain contempt for the whole process.

And yes I have watched Walton and the others faces when they talk and get no clear signals that they are lieing or are bad people.

As far as money in this case, money is money and you start waving it around in front of the faces of folks trying to make ends meet and you get what you get. These guys didnt understand the pittfalls anyway that were ahead for them. I would be more suspect if everthing went clean and pat all the way down the line on this. I suppose that half broke wood cutters should suddenly act like monks after the sighting. Some guy with a broke truck and a crying baby, bitching wife is not going to me tempted? UFO or not? Thats human nature. Maybe they should have had some UFO pro run up there and coach them on what to do to and how to act to protect the truth. The pro nay sayers were having a field day with these rustics and suddenly some backwoods law inforcement is equal to an FBI investigator.