4 girls dragged kicking/screaming onto aircraft after Australian judge rules they return to father

who the hell WRITES these threads???
look at this member's past posts.. www.abovetopsecret.com...

seems like he's told to do so.

seriously.. I don't have any clue why someone in their right mind would actively go about.. searching the web.. and find stories like the ones you find and post..

unless you're just BEGGING people to begin infighting about miniscule arbitrary topics... and getting PAID to do so.. or you are just bent on some pathological urge to reproduce scenarios you've experienced in your past... which is just.. beyond ridiculous.

You don't add to the discussion on ATS about seriously profound concepts.. just benign socio-political- almost.. Jersey-Shore-Ish -Jerry-Springer-Ish material...

Get some real material and maybe i'll take a listen... until then, take your BS elsewhere.. it's just fodder for mental discourse.

Originally posted by prevenge
who the hell WRITES these threads???
look at this member's past posts.. www.abovetopsecret.com...

seems like he's told to do so.

seriously.. I don't have any clue why someone in their right mind would actively go about.. searching the web.. and find stories like the ones you find and post..

unless you're just BEGGING people to begin infighting about miniscule arbitrary topics... and getting PAID to do so.. or you are just bent on some pathological urge to reproduce scenarios you've experienced in your past... which is just.. beyond ridiculous.

You don't add to the discussion on ATS about seriously profound concepts.. just benign socio-political- almost.. Jersey-Shore-Ish material...

Get some real material and maybe i'll take a listen... until then, take your BS elsewhere.. it's just fodder for mental discourse.

Well, I'm terribly sorry that my thread history does not please you.

Could I kindly suggest that you just ignore my threads?

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Gridrebel

It appears you might have been wronged in a domestic dispute. You can't take it out on these girls.

No, I have not been. I have no axe to grind.

Originally posted by Gridrebel

I loved my dad to pieces. I did NOT want to live with him. He was a drunk and a pervert. I STILL LOVED HIM.

I am sorry to hear that your father was a drunk and a pervert.

Nonetheless, no one has accused the father in this case of being a drunk and a pervert.

The Australian court found that the girls had originally expressed the desire to return to their father after being abducted, but only after being influenced by their mother and those around them (including the maternal grandmother who hid them from the Australian authorities) did they prefer to stay with their mother.

No, they have only accused him of being cruel and mean. What was momma's "influence"? She didn't physically abuse them. Was it mental or psychological abuse? But, we do have this:

The eldest daughter, 14, said her father had broken her thumb when she tried to protect her head during a beating.

Broken thumb, beating .....move along. I wouldn't want to live with this man. Would you? This is clearly a case where the children should choose with which parent they want to live.

Originally posted by Gridrebel
Broken thumb, beating .....move along. I wouldn't want to live with this man.

The Australian judge stated that she had not heard evidence to support allegations he was abusive.

abc.net.au

I would be interested to hear where the broken thumb and beating stories had originated from. The mother or the children.

Certainly, the judge condemned the mother for courting publicity in this case.

Nonetheless, an American new outlet GlobalPost reports that the Courier-Mail newspaper and 4BC Radio have reported that one child stated she had her thumb broken and another that she remembered being hit by her father when she was young and seeing her father hit her mother.

Interestingly, of the two links provided by the American outlet one has been removed and the other one consists of a radio interview by the maternal grandmother who does not repeat those allegations.

That would suggest that there is perhaps much smoke but little substance to such allegations.

Certainly, the Australian judge appears to have been that opinion. The Judge also stated that the the girls had been significantly influenced by the mother and those around her, including "extremely inappropriate and bizarre" views of their maternal great grandmother.


The fact that the judge found the girls did want to return home originally, that they love their father and that she had heard no evidence to substantiate the abuse accusations, would suggest that the father is not abusive.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

The judge made a direction based on the law.I believe as a father of children the judge made a wise direction.

The father has rights too and the mother disregarded these rights and will learn the lessons she needs to learn

In the long term the children will understand what has transpired

Yes the kids will understand and they will hate the Dad for life. I am in the same situation as an ex-guardian. Dad took the kids back and they hate him with a passion. He has no time for them and mentally, if not physically, abuses them. Truthfully he's the Dad so not much we can do.

Originally posted by ollncasino


This case is about the interests of the children and the consequent right of the father to enforce his right of custody as awarded by the original Italian family law court.

I thought it was about law.

The sex of the judge is not relevant - yet you tried to make it so.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by ollncasino

It isn't about sexism.

I really wish I could believe you, but your words speak differently.

It seems some are blind to their own posts.

Originally posted by ladyteeny
i think the point that most people are seeing here is that the girls choice, obvious choice, is to remain with their mother. they are all old enough to express their wishes. the fact that they've been clearly against going back to their father should be of paramount importance.

personally, after reading the little that's available to read, i would order the parents to find a way to get along for their girls sake. i realise this can be difficult for a lot of couples, but if they were TRULY thinking about their children, this is what they'd do.

selfish parents, manipulative parents, ... they have no place in the interests of these children.

Most of the posts seem to ignore the most glaring point there is in this case. The judge made a grave error in not honoring the children's wishes. And apparently there was physical signs of abuse.

reply to post by ollncasino

The court found that the girls did express their wish to return to their father after they were abducted and that they did and still do love their father.

The courts found this, ie, by proxy, without asking them? Interesting. They would be the ones to express this, not a stranger. You can't speak for me, and they can't speak for the children.

Here's the bottom line, for whatever reason, 4 GIRLS DON'T WANT TO LIVE WITH THEIR FATHER. Why force them?

Originally posted by Unity_99

And apparently there was physical signs of abuse.

Can you prove any of that?

The problem is the mother broke the law kidnapping the girls. International law - no less.

Plus - - it is unknown what kind of "country to country" agreement there is between Australia and Italy.

This is not about what is morally right - - this is about what is legal.

Originally posted by Annee

You're the woman hater blaming everything on the woman.

I fear that you assume too readily that men are Misogynous.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy your posts. I just feel that you do show an anti-male bias at times.

Originally posted by Annee

It seems some are blind to their own posts.

I think I know what you mean.

Originally posted by Annee

I thought it was about law.

Far be it for me to educate you about family law, as I know you have a deep interest in family matters, however one common principle of family law in respect of custody battles, is that the best interest of a child is the paramount factor.

Originally posted by Annee

The sex of the judge is not relevant - yet you tried to make it so.

It is relevant if you accuse me of being a 'woman hater blaming everything on the woman', yet I hold the same views on the case as the female Australian judge.

I take it the female judge is also a women hater who blames everything on women?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Annee

You're the woman hater blaming everything on the woman.

I fear that you assume too readily that men are Misogynous.

I did not assume anything.

My original post was in direct response to your actual words.

Originally posted by Annee

I did not assume anything.

My original post was in direct response to your actual words.

Which were (you quoted them in that post)

Originally posted by ollncasino

Maybe the mother just made it up (the accusations of abuse) in a desperate attempt to keep the children she abducted?

The horror.

reply to post by Annee


The thing is, I would too. She went the legal route. It didn't work. Courts do not empower anyone, they are but servants of the people and corrupt servants at that. You play the game as long as criminals aren't running things, but when injustice happens, SERVE AND PROTECT THE CHILDREN.

The abuse was brought up. It's an issue in this case. One can also tell it's an issue in this case, and that the father is psychotic. He went to court to take away a woman's biological children, treating her as a surrogate womb for him. In 99% of the cases, she was the one who spent round clock childcare, nursing, waking in the night and bonding to the girls, for years. I was pregnant and nursed for nearly 11 years of my life with my 5 boys. I would hand them over to NO ONE. I would protect with my life from any JUDGE, POLTICIAN, ETC.

Now, most decent fathers do not force children to leave their mothers. That is always a bad sign. It means a BULLY.

Decent men do not do this. He did this to hurt her and the children. So I take the abuse charges seriously.

Now here is the point, THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH LEGALLY TO CHOOSE ON THEIR OWN. THIS IS AN UNLAWFUL DECISION.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Unity_99

And apparently there was physical signs of abuse.

Can you prove any of that?

The problem is the mother broke the law kidnapping the girls. International law - no less.

Plus - - it is unknown what kind of "country to country" agreement there is between Australia and Italy.

This is not about what is morally right - - this is about what is legal.

NO, this is about what is right. Legal sometimes sucks. What is right doesn't suck.

Natural and legal rights are two types of rights theoretically distinct according to philosophers and political scientists. Natural rights are rights not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable. In contrast, legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by the law of a particular political and legal system, and therefore relative to specific cultures and governments

What is right is not happening. The "legal" rules.....yeah, maybe. If I were those kids, I would be applying for emancipation and get the heck out of the forced family. These are not babies for crying out loud. They are people who can express their desires and opinions AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

Originally posted by Unity_99

Now here is the point, THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH LEGALLY TO CHOOSE ON THEIR OWN. THIS IS AN UNLAWFUL DECISION.

I'm not going to argue emotions - - when the subject is Legality. International Legality between 2 countries.

Who brought up abuse? Where is the proof? You are believing what you want to believe.

As far as them old enough to Choose - - - yeah - - I think its age 13 in America.

We are not talking America. We do not know what the Australian and Italian laws are.

reply to post by Annee


Its normally 12 here in Canada, with leeway, in other words, good luck in forcing a 11 year old where they don't want to go, its a waste of money, since they're going to tell the parent without custody, to go back to court within 1 or 2 years.

With a range of ages, they have to do a general thing, because they keep families together.

No, the legal thing, is that judges don't normally wrench a bunch of children who want to be with mom away, and there is something really wrong about this case! Legally. I feel the judge and all associated with her need a thorough investigation done, by top notch private investigators.

I would never let her get away this.