Do we know which side of the edge of the universe is nearest to us?

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
I think our only real evidence of an expanding universe is the Big Bang theory that ties in with how most objects appear to be moving away from us. It's a premature assumption that may very well turn out to be seasonal rather than expansive. Plus, we've only been observing space for a very short while.

I don't see an "edge" of the universe. I see our place in the observable universe as more like sitting on the tangent of a circle where every point that touches that circle feels like the middle, giving the impression that there is an edge to it, like viewing the horizon while sitting in a boat on the ocean.

"Expanding universe" may very well be our "flat earth."

Sorry for edit.
But that is ONE MAGIC sentence...
We can observe OBJECTS moving,
but how do one observe space moving?

its to the left,over that way!!!!!!!

Originally posted by reficul
its to the left,over that way!!!!!!!

Yep!
Your left is my up! Earth rotate in last few hours...so..

Actually, we are lost in the universe and are pretty useless

The universe is, theoretically, infinitely large. Therefore, all sides are equidistant, no matter where you are. Which means we are all the center of the universe.

Better learn to share.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
The universe is, theoretically, infinitely large. Therefore, all sides are equidistant, no matter where you are. Which means we are all the center of the universe.

Better learn to share.

edit on 2-10-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I hate that statement more then anything.,,.,.., we are the center .,,.,..,.,.,. even in the way you intend it....

im in the center of my town.,,.,. im in the center of my state,..., im in the center of the world,,.,. im in the center of the solar system.,,.,.,.,..,

all of those statements are meaningless and wrong,.,.,,.,.

for anyone saying the universe is infinite what does that mean?

does that mean right now it is the largest anything can ever be?

if so wouldnt that mean a million years ago the universe wasnt infinite because it wasnt the largest it could be?

does it mean it goes on forever?

isnt that not true because the most believed theories believe it had a begging,,,, it has a finite amount f energy,,, and will at one point in time cease to exist in the manner it currently exists in?

if i were to observe a 1 year old rabbit........ can i say that rabbit is infinite,,, because it exists right now,, and will potentially exist later in time,,, and it is a certain size right now,, and will potentially get larger,,,, so right now it is not finite,,, simply because it is changing? is this the definition of infinite we are using?

Originally posted by randomname
apparently according to science the universe is expanding outwards from a single point.

they say all matter exploded from a single source and this occurred 15 billion years ago.

how can they tell that if according to their theory the earth didn't exist back then.

we measure one year as one complete rotation of the earth around the sun.

how do you measure a year before the earth existed.

the truth is science has no ****ing clue about anything.

13.7 (plus/minus 0.1), not 15 billion years ago. As for the rest, the exact length of a year changes over time. Nowadays, a common year is 31,536,000 seconds. I really do not understand your logic stating that time can't be measured before this was established, as if time did not exist before the Earth was formed some 4.5 billions years ago (and no, it didn't take 365 days for Earth to rotate around the Sun back then). Back to the age of the Universe, two methods give the same estimate independently. First, you can extrapolate backwards from the expansion rate. Second, you can measure cosmic background radiation temperature. For more info, you could for example visit wikipedia

so the universe is expanding into something that doesn't exist yet. how does that even make sense, unless the universe creates it's own existence ahead of itself.

How does "the Universe creating its own existence ahead of itself" make any sense? We laymen think that the Universe is expanding into something, but that's only because a 3-dimensional (plus time) world defines our thinking/logic.

this is why God creating the universe is the only thing that makes sense. all the other explanations, contradict reality and bring in the supernatural, so all signs point to God.

so God was right, the universe for us is 6-7000 years old because that's when we first became aware of it.

i can't say i'm 500 years old because i didn't exist, therefore the world didn't exist for me, nor the universe.

for me the universe is as old as my age, and for you as old as you have been alive.

deal with it.

God creating the Universe doesn't make any sense, because it makes the origin of reality infinitely more difficult to explain, i.e. where do you get that magic being to begin with? As for the rest, are you kidding? In just 7,000 years what was once clearly the bottom of an ocean become a mountain top with fossilized sea life? In just 7,000 years for example Africa and South America drifted apart (it's obvious that they were once connected since you find identical fossils from the coasts)? That's just two observations among millions.. seriously. Deny ignorance, they said..


As to which edge of the Universe is nearest to us. IANAP but I don't think the Universe has edges.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe it's like the pic below. As far as I understand, our current 3-dimensional Universe exists on the far-right edge, and not in the "empty space" inside the horn. Thus, our Universe is flat.. sort of.

Originally posted by Miccey

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
I think our only real evidence of an expanding universe is the Big Bang theory that ties in with how most objects appear to be moving away from us. It's a premature assumption that may very well turn out to be seasonal rather than expansive. Plus, we've only been observing space for a very short while.

I don't see an "edge" of the universe. I see our place in the observable universe as more like sitting on the tangent of a circle where every point that touches that circle feels like the middle, giving the impression that there is an edge to it, like viewing the horizon while sitting in a boat on the ocean.

"Expanding universe" may very well be our "flat earth."

Sorry for edit.
But that is ONE MAGIC sentence...
We can observe OBJECTS moving,
but how do one observe space moving?

Kind of confused with the question. lol The void of space (if that's what you mean) is invisible to us (no redshift or blueshift) except in how it interacts with objects, which is the only evidence of dark matter that we have I think. The rotation of the galaxy is steady on the edge as it is in the middle, even though it should technically be going more slowly since it's further away from the centre (where objects rotate more quickly around because of the black hole). The theory is that the mass of dark matter outside and inside of the galaxy, and it's subsequent gravitational force, is what keeps the galaxy's rotation steady on it's outskirts. If it has mass, then I guess it's probably moving considering everything else in the universe is moving.

If you mean the entirety of the universe moving, like galaxies and so on, and how we can tell if they're moving away from or towards us, then look into these aspects of the Doppler effect: redshift and blueshift. Basically, light from distant objects appear "blue" as it approaches, and red as it moves further away.

I apologize if this didn't answer the question.

Originally posted by rhinoceros



As to which edge of the Universe is nearest to us. IANAP but I don't think the Universe has edges.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe it's like the pic below. As far as I understand, our current 3-dimensional Universe exists on the far-right edge, and not in the "empty space" inside the horn. Thus, our Universe is flat.. sort of.

edit on 2-10-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

do the scientists who make those images fail to realize that the universe is not traveling in one direction? I know it is attempting to express the passage of time,,,, but space-time is space-time.,,,.. the theories of going in one direction and heading back where you started are foolish... they are hypothetical and insinuate an edge, an edge you dont believe exists,..,., they are birthed from the idea of a spherical universe in which you traveled straight you would loop around, there fore looping around the inside edge of a sphere,.,.,. or if it is saying you travel one direction pass an edge and you are now at the beginning of time,, that is equally stupid,, some times smart scientists think they are really smart, and dont realize how stupid they are... how can you know all that you are failing to know? how can one consider what they are not considering..

The spiritual side... that's which is of the fourth dimension, not the three the universe exists in.

It's ironic that those that still believe the theory of the big bang as all existing from nothing forget there had to be something else before hand. All we see is a puny slice of the real existence and man has the audacity to say only what he sees is real?

What we see is actually created. Now whether you believe it was by accident (a big bang of matter that didn't exist beforehand) or by someone or something, you have to ask the question....what or who was there beforehand.

I think those that believe in a creator show more intelligence than those that don't based on belief in a big bang of nothing originally and 'still' suggested as a theory.

If we think only what we see, feel and understand is real, then as humans we really are pathetically narrow minded, arrogant and even ignorant.

Our observable edge of the viable universe is over 45 billion light years away, however it is highly likely that is not 'the' edge of the universe, and that galaxies beyond the sight of our observable universe do exist - yet their light has yet to reached us.

"According to calculations, the comoving distance (current proper distance) to particles from the CMBR, which represent the radius of the visible universe, is about 14.0 billion parsecs (about 45.7 billion light years), while the comoving distance to the edge of the observable universe is about 14.3 billion parsecs (about 46.6 billion light years),[1] about 2% larger."
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ImaFungi
do the scientists who make those images fail to realize that the universe is not traveling in one direction?

I believe the edge represents the current space-time at any given moment. In the pic the edges are connected although it's not shown.

I would expect the Universe to be the shape of a ring donut with the so called Big Bang happening in the middle. I think that matter has an edge but space is infinate, eventually the energy of motion from the big bang will run out and matter will stop spreading out. When that point occurs, Gravity will become significant and start drawing matter back together, until we end up again with a super hot, super dense singularity of matter and an explosion, whalla another big bang.

Originally posted by pacifier2012
It's ironic that those that still believe the theory of the big bang as all existing from nothing forget there had to be something else before hand. All we see is a puny slice of the real existence and man has the audacity to say only what he sees is real?

What we see is actually created. Now whether you believe it was by accident (a big bang of matter that didn't exist beforehand) or by someone or something, you have to ask the question....what or who was there beforehand.

I think those that believe in a creator show more intelligence than those that don't based on belief in a big bang of nothing originally and 'still' suggested as a theory.

And what was there before of that, etc. Either way, thinking it was something simple makes far more sense than believing that there was something incredibly complex there (like a God), as.. how did that come to be. Apply Occam's razor.. The least sensible option is to think that there was some specific myth God there who also happens to be especially interested in our species, which undeniable evolved in this planet that formed some 9 billion years after whatever caused the coming of our Universe..

reply to post by blobby


Makes you wonder, if there is a "center" where that may be. Is the Universe symmetric?

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by ImaFungi
do the scientists who make those images fail to realize that the universe is not traveling in one direction?

I believe the edge represents the current space-time at any given moment. In the pic the edges are connected although it's not shown.

the edge represents the current space time at any given moment?

what does "the current space-time" equal in that statement?

in an expanding - accelerating universe .... the edges will always be expanding,, making the material universe compose a greater and greater area....

if our galaxy is not near the edge,,,,not on the forefront of universal expansion,, then even if we were to hypothetically travel twice the speed of light towards the edge,, judging by the size of the universe,, i doubt we would ever reach the edge...

If the universe is infinite , there is no edge and there is no middle.....infinity cannot be measured.

Originally posted by randomname
how can they tell that if according to their theory the earth didn't exist back then.

we measure one year as one complete rotation of the earth around the sun.

how do you measure a year before the earth existed.

the truth is science has no ****ing clue about anything.

We can measure the distance light travels in a year. This unit of measurement is called a light year. Earth's existence and rotation is arbitrary because when we observe the first expansion of the universe - light that is roughly 14 billion years old - we are essentially looking back 14 billion years in time.

I agree with your statement that "God did it", but there's no need to fear or hate science. Einstein has been right about a lot of stuff.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

Originally posted by Miccey

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
I think our only real evidence of an expanding universe is the Big Bang theory that ties in with how most objects appear to be moving away from us. It's a premature assumption that may very well turn out to be seasonal rather than expansive. Plus, we've only been observing space for a very short while.

I don't see an "edge" of the universe. I see our place in the observable universe as more like sitting on the tangent of a circle where every point that touches that circle feels like the middle, giving the impression that there is an edge to it, like viewing the horizon while sitting in a boat on the ocean.

"Expanding universe" may very well be our "flat earth."

Sorry for edit.
But that is ONE MAGIC sentence...
We can observe OBJECTS moving,
but how do one observe space moving?

Kind of confused with the question. lol The void of space (if that's what you mean) is invisible to us (no redshift or blueshift) except in how it interacts with objects, which is the only evidence of dark matter that we have I think. The rotation of the galaxy is steady on the edge as it is in the middle, even though it should technically be going more slowly since it's further away from the centre (where objects rotate more quickly around because of the black hole). The theory is that the mass of dark matter outside and inside of the galaxy, and it's subsequent gravitational force, is what keeps the galaxy's rotation steady on it's outskirts. If it has mass, then I guess it's probably moving considering everything else in the universe is moving.

If you mean the entirety of the universe moving, like galaxies and so on, and how we can tell if they're moving away from or towards us, then look into these aspects of the Doppler effect: redshift and blueshift. Basically, light from distant objects appear "blue" as it approaches, and red as it moves further away.

I apologize if this didn't answer the question.

edit on 2/10/12 by AdamsMurmur because: (no reason given)

Well, i mean the ACTUAL space BETWEEN any kind of matter..
Even the space between ANY kind of "string" if you are in to
the STRINGTHEORY...Can that SPACE be observed....

It is times like this that I wish I had a better GPS

Then I could really provide some input

It appears that we are not even sure where the edge of our own solar system is so I doubt anyone has any clue as to our true position in the universe.

This is uncharted territory, and no one really knows just what the boundary with interstellar space is like. So Stone can't say how long it will be before Voyager passes through it.

www.npr.org...

"No matter where your at...there you are!"