Jesus was a "Muslim"

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Well, 8 and 8 are not two "infinite" numbers.

And the belief that God is all things is "Pantheism". Universalism would be the belief that all people go to heaven when they die physically.

8 is a symbol that represents infinity...

Thus... 8....... 8 represents two seperate infinite symbols

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

As for the part about Allah being a "pagan moon god"...its only the fundamentalist Christians who keep rambling on about it. So one can safely dismiss those claims as hogwash.

There is no way that Jesus, Who was God incarnate, would call out to a pagan moon god.

Let's see what the Quran says....
It was not Fundamental Christians who wrote the Quran...but you know what it says, you know I am going to post it, there may be others who have not heard about it yet.

Let's start at

Surah 53:1 By the star when it descends,

What is the star that descends???

Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

Whose companion? The companion of Allah? The star? Whose companion? He did not say Abu Bakr, Uthman, Abu Haraira or Umar, so who's companion is he? Remember, Allah takes no partners, right? Because Mohammed does not say here who his companion is, then we must assume it is either Allah or the star.

Surah 53:3Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

Does he speak by the companion? Either he is speaking by the star or Allah and since the star is descending at the beginning, one has to assume Allah. And notice here, he does not say Shaytan either, he does not say Jinn, because Shaytan is a jinn, therefore made of smoke and not a star.

Surah 53:4 It is not but a revelation revealed,

Ah, so the star gives revelation.

Surah 53:5 Taught to him by one intense in strength -

Allah teaches Mohammed, right? So the star is giving revelation and teaching, interesting.

Surah 53:5 One of soundness. And he rose to [his] true form

Surah 53:6 While he was in the higher [part of the] horizon.

Wait, you mean Mohammed was looking at a visible object in the sky? The one who revealed, rose and taught...was visible, in the sky?

Surah 53:7 Then he approached and descended

So far, Mohammed has not said he was in a vision or a dream, he is saying that he really saw a visible object descending.

Surah 53:8 And was at a distance of two bow lengths or nearer.

Pretty close there.

Surah 53:9 And he revealed to His Servant what he revealed.

Sure this was not Allah?

Surah 53:10 The heart did not lie [about] what it saw.

He wants you to believe him.

Surah 53:11 So will you dispute with him over what he saw?

It occurred to me here that this is not Mohammed speaking, but one of the Companions. Wait, I thought every verse in the Quran was supposed to be the words of Mohammed, but here, clearly it is not. And I have not even gotten to the daughters of Allah yet.

Surah 53: 12 And he certainly saw him in another descent

Oh, this visible object has been seen more than once, so why dispute Mohammed's claim?

Surah 53:13 At the Lote Tree of the Utmost Boundary -

In paradise, where all the houris are (houri was originally found in Zoroastrianism along with jinns)

Surah 53:14 Near it is the Garden of Refuge -

Exactly what it was always called in Zoroastrianism.

Surah 53:15 When there covered the Lote Tree that which covered [it].

Stays on Zoroastrianism

Surah 53:16 The sight [of the Prophet] did not swerve, nor did it transgress [its limit].

He really saw it.

Surah 53:17 He certainly saw of the greatest signs of his Lord.

He saw a lot, believe the writer.

Surah 53:18 So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?

Two of the daughters of Allah

Surah 53: 19 And Manat, the third - the other one?

There she is, the third daughter of Allah

Surah 53:20 Is the male for you and for Him the female?

For who? Allah, Mohammed? Who is Him? Since it is capitalized, I am assuming this means for Allah. Is the writer complaining that someone else gets the male but Allah gets the female?

Surah 53:21 That, then, is an unjust division.

It's unfair that who gets what? You mean Mohammed is upset that Allah got the females?

Because I am running out of room here, I will continue this in a following post. I want to dissect this Surah and posting the whole thing to stay in context.

To be continued.....

reply to post by WarminIndy


Continuation....

Surah 53:23 They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.

So the pagans did indeed worship Allah with three daughters. You mean for a thousand years, Allah had daughters that the Quraysh tribe worshipped until Mohammed saw a star that told him differently?

Surah 53:24 Or is there for man whatever he wishes?

Kind of like Mohammed getting permission to rape, plunder, steal and kill?

Surah 53:25 Rather, to Allah belongs the Hereafter and the first [life].

What is the first life? Did Mohammed reincarnate? Actually, all religions believe in a hereafter, including Zoroastrianism that was ripped off in the first part of the Surah.

Surah 53:26 And how many angels there are in the heavens whose intercession will not avail at all except [only] after Allah has permitted [it] to whom He wills and approves.

This is not a Biblical concept, angels do not intercede, but Zoroastrian angels do. Jesus is the intercessor for the Christian, and the Bible does not call Jesus an angel.

Surah 53:27Indeed, those who do not believe in the Hereafter name the angels female names,

Actually, all religions that believe in angels name them male and female.

Surah 53:28And they have thereof no knowledge. They follow not except assumption, and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all.

Kind of like assuming Mohammed said he saw a star that revealed things to him, just because he said it, does not make it so.

Surah 53: 29 So turn away from whoever turns his back on Our message and desires not except the worldly life.

Whose message? Allah was never named once in this Surah, so we know it is not Allah speaking, and since the writer is not Mohammed speaking because the writer continually says "his"...then whose message? The star?

Surah 53:30 That is their sum of knowledge. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who strays from His way, and He is most knowing of who is guided.

So the star is Lord?

Surah 53:31 And to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth - that He may recompense those who do evil with [the penalty of] what they have done and recompense those who do good with the best [reward] -

OH, so the star is indeed Allah, good to know. So Allah was a visible object seen in the sky at the horizon line.

Surah 53:32 Those who avoid the major sins and immoralities, only [committing] slight ones. Indeed, your Lord is vast in forgiveness. He was most knowing of you when He produced you from the earth and when you were fetuses in the wombs of your mothers. So do not claim yourselves to be pure; He is most knowing of who fears Him.

So you can commit sins? The star says morality is relative.

OK skip forward because there are too many to post.

Surah 53: 62 So prostrate to Allah and worship [Him].

Yes, the star demands you prostrate to it.

The star is Astarte, the wife of Sin or Nannar, the same as Ba'al also known as Allah, historically. She is associated with Venus, the most visible star that rises.


This is a coin minted, 'Abd al-Malik b. Marwan, AH 65-86/AD 685-705 one of the companions of Mohammed.
Notice on the coin the ancient symbol of Ishtar and Allah? The Ottomans did not invent the use. The obverse is actually, and you should know this, Afzut'/Fire altar and attendants. The fire altar is found in Zoroastrianism.


Ancient Coins

It is a little disingenuous now to say the Islamic religion has no pagan influences and do not venerate pagan deities. Islam came 600+ years AFTER Christianity. If Christianity had pagan influences, then Islam has no excuse. If your prophet received the revelations that he was the last prophet, and that he says the Bible is corrupt, then why still venerate the old pagan religion. Nothing changed with Mohammed.

reply to post by WarminIndy


After more careful reading of the same Surah, the star seen was Sirius...

Surah 53:49 And that it is He who is the Lord of Sirius

This explains now the problem with the male and female. The symbols of Ishtar are on the Islamic flag, as it was on the ancient coins. Sirius is also the symbol of Ishtar along with Venus....

Assurbanipal, in the seventh pre-Christian century, celebrated a festival for Venus when Sirius was rising heliacally: “In the month of Abu, the month of the heliacal rising of the Bow Star, the festival of the honored queen, the daughter [Ishtar] of Enlil, while, to render homage to her great godhead, I sojourned in Arbela, her beloved city. . .”10 This statement of Assurbanipal is interpreted as meaning that the king “considered Ištar of Arbela the divine impersonator of Sirius.”11 Ištar of Elam and Ištar of Babylon are also defined as the Bow Star, or Sirius. This link of the Venus festival with Sirius persisted until the Middle Ages among the Harranians.12 The celebration of the Assyrian and Harranian festivals to Venus when Sirius was rising heliacally should not be neglected by students of the Canopus Decree, and of Sothic chronology.

Not only that, the verse posted says "it was within two bows distance"...Sirius is also known as the Bow Star.
So Mohammed got his revelation from Sirius, and says so in the first ayat.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Well, go on.
Are you going to comment on Surah 53:53?

And He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah).

What? Now Im really confused. I thought it was the God of the old testament who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. But since we read that in the Koran as well, it settles that Allah is the God of the Old Testament.

Theres a whole lot of other things in the Koran which matches what God did in the Old Testament.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Surah 53:31 And to Allah BELONGS whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth - that He may recompense those who do evil with [the penalty of] what they have done and recompense those who do good with the best [reward] -

OH, so the star is indeed Allah, good to know. So Allah was a visible object seen in the sky at the horizon line.

If a car belongs to you, are you a car yourself?

Tell me, where does it say anything about being Allah being a visible object in the sky? Instead that Surah teaches all stars BELONG to Allah.

I dont know if you are coming up with this yourself or if you are just taking random shots at Islam without even realizing what you are talking about. Either way, you are making yourself look bad.

reply to post by WarminIndy


And please stop with the crescent moon nonsense.

Its just a drawing of an object in the sky. Like the sun, several cultures around the world have used the crescent moon motif in symbolism. Doesn't mean they are moon worshippers.

In hinduism


In Sikhism

reply to post by WarminIndy


the surah at the start is addressed to companions of prophet and talking about Muhammad(pbuh)
maybe nw it will make sense.
And the "mighty one" is angel Jibrael(Gabriel) and ya angels are visible. Now the surah makes more sense right?
Now re-read it ane see how stupid your conclusions sound.
And i'l post the remaining surah in next post, which you conviniently skipped. Maybe you should read it and give it some thought

reply to post by WarminIndy


(53:33) (O Prophet), did you see him who turned away (from the Path of Allah),
(53:34) who gave a little, and then stopped?
(53:35) Does he have any knowledge of the world beyond the ken of sense-perception, and therefore, clearly sees (the Truth)?
(53:36) Has he not been informed of what is in the Scrolls of Moses,
(53:37) and of Abraham, who lived up to the trust?
(53:38) “That no bearer of a burden shall bear the burden of another,
(53:39) and that man shall have nothing but what he has striven for,
(53:40) and that (the result of) his striving shall soon be seen,
(53:41) and that he shall then be fully recompensed,
(53:42) and that the final end is with your Lord,
(53:43) and that He it is Who causes people to laugh and to cry,
(53:44) and that He it is Who causes death and grants life,
(53:45) and He it is Who created the two kinds, the male and the female,
(53:46) from a drop of sperm when it was emitted,
(53:47) and that it is for Him to grant the second life, (53:48) that He it is Who bestowed wealth and riches, (53:49) that He is the Lord of Sirius, (53:50) that He it is Who destroyed the ancient 'Ad, (53:51) and Thamud, leaving no trace of them, (53:52) and that He it is Who destroyed the people of Noah before for they were much given to iniquity and transgression. (53:53) And He brought perdition upon the subverted cities (53:54) and caused them to be covered with that which He covered them with. (53:55) So, which of your Lord's bounties will you doubt?” (53:56) This is a warning among the warnings of yore. (53:57) The imminent Hour has drawn near, (53:58) and none but Allah can avert it. (53:59) Will you, then, wonder at this? (53:60) Will you laugh at it rather than weep? (53:61) Will you occupy yourselves simply in merriment? (53:62) Prostrate yourselves before Allah, and serve Him.

reply to post by logical7

(53:52) and that He it is Who destroyed the people of Noah before for they were much given to iniquity and transgression.

The Koran repeats many of the bibles stories.
The fundamentalists will never acknowledge all that, instead they'd just say "Oh but Mohammad just copied it all from the bible"... which is a pretty weak argument.... and go on and on about the moon god.

I am NOT muslim by birth...so I am in a pretty neutral position to read the Bible and the Koran and decide. From what I have read, the God of the Koran is THE SAME as the God of the bible.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by logical7

 

(53:52) and that He it is Who destroyed the people of Noah before for they were much given to iniquity and transgression.

The Koran repeats many of the bibles stories.
The fundamentalists will never acknowledge all that, instead they'd just say "Oh but Mohammad just copied it all from the bible"... which is a pretty weak argument.... and go on and on about the moon god.

I am NOT muslim by birth...so I am in a pretty neutral position to read the Bible and the Koran and decide. From what I have read, the God of the Koran is THE SAME as the God of the bible.

Exactly!!
The problem here is that if its acknowledged that the God of Bible and Quran is same, then Islam stops appearing alien and scary and possibility of it being authentic increase, thats DANGEROUS!!
The christians(not all) dont give the same courtesy to muslims about it as they give to jews, yet the jews also reject divinity of christ.
I remember a few verses from Quran
.
(2:113) The Jews say: “The Christians have no basis for their beliefs,” and the Christians say: “The Jews have no basis for their beliefs.” They say so even though they read the Scripture. The claim of those who have no knowledge (of the Scripture) is similar. Allah will judge between them concerning their differences on the Day of Resurrection.
.
(2:120) Never will the Jews be pleased with you, (O Prophet), nor the Christians until you follow their way. Say: “Surely Allah’s guidance, is the true guidance.” Should you follow their desires disregarding the knowledge which has come to you, you shall have no protector or helper against Allah.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by nenothtu

 

i am impressed by your broad minded approach.
So did u find the 3 books similar?

Apologies for the delay in replying. I only work weekends, 15 to 16 hours a day, and had not enough free time.

Yes, I found them similar in that they appear to have a similar undercurrent or framework. I find them different in character and delivery, however, which I chalk up to probably the difference in the peoples they were delivered to, the times they were delivered for, and the messengers they were delivered through.

Even within the same book, different sections will sometimes have a different character, which is probably a function of the messenger they were delivered through and specifics of the time they were sent, even though they were sent for the same basic people. I find the writings attributed to Moses to have a different character than the writings attributed to, for example, Jeremiah..That to me makes sense, because I believe that God relates to people differently, according to what they will grasp best, and Moses and Jeremiah were of course different people at different times, with different experiences of life.

Still, the undercurrent and framework between the two, the basic message, remains unchanged.

Another example that you may have noticed is the difference in character of the Qur'anic verses between those delivered at Mecca and those delivered at Medina. Same sort of thing, they were delivered at different times, for different circumstances.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Theres a whole lot of other things in the Koran which matches what God did in the Old Testament.

That's because Muhammed, when he invented his new religion, PLAGIARIZED from the Jews and Christians. Muhammed took what he knew from the other religions (Jews, Christianity and Zoroastrianism) and tried to transpose it to the new one he was inventing. But he didn't do a good job of it.

God didn't write the Qu'ran. Muslims made it up. So some of the same stories will be in it. They are twisted from the original sources and added to in order to fit into the political asperations of Muhammed and his followers. The 'god' of the Qu'ran isn't the same God of the Old Testament. The Qu'ran god is a twisted version of the original.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
The fundamentalists will never acknowledge all that, instead they'd just say "Oh but Mohammad just copied it all from the bible"... which is a pretty weak argument.... and go on and on about the moon god..

- I'm not a christian fundamentalist .. so lets not go there.
- Muhammed DID copy it from the bible. (and did a poor job of it) That's a fact.
- The truth isn't a 'weak argument'. It's just the truth.
- There IS a pre-Islamic moon good named Allah. It was still worshipped during the time Muhammad was a kid. That's a fact as well. So when people go 'on and on' about the moon god, they are just stating truth.

Originally posted by logical7
The problem here is that if its acknowledged that the God of Bible and Quran is same, then Islam stops appearing alien and scary and possibility of it being authentic increase, thats DANGEROUS!!

The problem here is that the god of the Qu'ran is NOT the same God of the bible or of the Jewish writings.

The two are completely different, even though Muhammed plagiarized some of what is in the Qu'ran from the Christians and Jews. The god of the Qu'ran comes up with things that are contradictory to what the God of the bible says. All those verses about killing non-Muslims for example ... :shk: OBVIOUSLY the two books are not from the same source.

The God of the bible is a Trinity God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. There is NO WAY that Muslims believe that Jesus is God incarnate. Therefore, the God of the bible is NOT the god of the Qu'ran.

Oh .. and there is no way that the god of the Qu'ran is 'authentic' (to use your word). Suggested reading - Why I am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warriq. Very educational on the errors and contradictions in the Qu'ran and problems with Islam in general. And here ya go .. should keep you busy on a rainy afternoon ... 1000 errors and mistakes in the Qu'ran The god of the Qu'ran is a confused mess and rather petty. Not the kind of god I'd want to have to deal with for eternity.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

the surah at the start is addressed to companions of prophet and talking about Muhammad(pbuh)
maybe nw it will make sense.
And the "mighty one" is angel Jibrael(Gabriel) and ya angels are visible. Now the surah makes more sense right?
Now re-read it ane see how stupid your conclusions sound.
And i'l post the remaining surah in next post, which you conviniently skipped. Maybe you should read it and give it some thought

Yeah, uh huh.
Which came first? The Torah or the Quran? If the Torah came first, then don't you think it is possible maybe the writers of the Quran was simply implanting things they already knew about? How does that confirm the books that came before? It does not, it merely recycles information. And much of the information is not even correct.

Surah 28:2These are the verses of the clear Book.

If it's clear, it should be correct, right?

Surah 28:6 And establish them in the land and show Pharaoh and [his minister] Haman and their soldiers through them that which they had feared.

Even though this is supposed to be about the birth of Moses and his life, what the writer here clearly did, and it is very clear, clearly WRONG. Haman and the Pharaoh of Moses' time did not live at the same time, and neither did Haman work for Pharaoh.

Clearly the Quran is WRONG.

Surah 28:38 And Pharaoh said, "O eminent ones, I have not known you to have a god other than me. Then ignite for me, O Haman, [a fire] upon the clay and make for me a tower that I may look at the God of Moses. And indeed, I do think he is among the liars."

HAMAN THE AGAGITE. Son of Hammedatha; chief minister of King Ahasuerus (Esth.iii.1-2). As his name indicates, Haman was a descendant of Agag, the king of the Amalekites. On account of his attempt to exterminate the Jews in the kingdom of Ahasuerus, he is frequently called "the persecutor of the Jews" ( ; Esth. iii. 10; viii. 1; ix. 10, 24). His machinations against the Jews and his downfall are remembered during the Feast of Purim.

AHASUERUS. Persian king, identical with Xerxes (486-465 B.C.). The Book of Esther deals only with one period of his reign. It tells us that he ruled over one hundred and twenty-seven provinces—"from India, even unto Ethiopia" (Esth. i. 1)

Is this inaccuracy clear yet that the Quran is clearly inaccurate?

All you have done is show a surah written several thousand years later than the Torah and said "see, the Bible says it too"...the Bible said it first, your Quran said it wrong. The Quran is supposed to confirm, but yet this is one verse out of many that is inaccurate, therefore wrong.

BTW, the tower that Haman was supposed to build for Pharaoh was the Tower of Babel, which was made by Nimrod, who lived a long time before Moses.

Will you care to say this surah confirms the Bible? It does not even confirm history.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
... the fact that Jesus had to call out to God means he was NOT God incarnate.

God the Father. God the Son. God the Holy Spirit. Jesus was God incarnate.
John 1 - 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'
Christian scripture states very clearly ... Jesus is God incarnate.

St. Patrick taught children this way - God is like a clover leaf. It is one leaf, but it is also three leaves. This is how the bible describes God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. ONE God but THREE divine persons. Just like a clover leaf ... one leaf but also it is three leaves.

Christian Belief of the Trinity

Tertullian

"We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. . . . This rule of faith has been present since the beginning of the gospel, before even the earlier heretics" (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).

"And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (ibid.).

"Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are inseparable from each other, and then you will understand what is meant by it. Observe now that I say the Father is other [distinct], the Son is other, and the Spirit is other. This statement is wrongly understood by every uneducated or perversely disposed individual, as if it meant diversity and implied by that diversity a separation of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (ibid., 9).

"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are, one essence, not one person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ [John 10:30], in respect of unity of being not singularity of number" (ibid., 25)

Originally posted by FlyersFan
That's because Muhammed, when he invented his new religion, PLAGIARIZED from the Jews and Christians. Muhammed took what he knew from the other religions (Jews, Christianity and Zoroastrianism) and tried to transpose it to the new one he was inventing. But he didn't do a good job of it.

God didn't write the Qu'ran. Muslims made it up. So some of the same stories will be in it. They are twisted from the original sources and added to in order to fit into the political asperations of Muhammed and his followers. The 'god' of the Qu'ran isn't the same God of the Old Testament. The Qu'ran god is a twisted version of the original.

EXACTLY the same could be said of Christianity. The jews would say the Christians "PLAGIARIZED" their religion, mixed it up with paganism, twisted it about to fit their own needs, etc. etc.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
And here ya go .. should keep you busy on a rainy afternoon ... 1000 errors and mistakes in the Qu'ran The god of the Qu'ran is a confused mess and rather petty. Not the kind of god I'd want to have to deal with for eternity.

Again, EXACTLY the same can be levelled at Christianity and Judaism. In fact, in the eyes of an atheist, who misunderstands all three religions equally, they'd say that it is the same god because it is all a "confused mess and rather petty".

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The God of the bible is a Trinity God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. There is NO WAY that Muslims believe that Jesus is God incarnate. Therefore, the God of the bible is NOT the god of the Qu'ran.

Hahaha....if that were true, there seem to be a huuuuge number of christians who are doing it wrong. I suppose only you are correct?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
- There IS a pre-Islamic moon good named Allah. It was still worshipped during the time Muhammad was a kid. That's a fact as well. So when people go 'on and on' about the moon god, they are just stating truth.

I ignored your other points because they were all subjective (this was worse than that, he did a bad job, etc.), but this one is objectively false.
The moon god at the time of the Prophet Muhammad was "Wadd", who is also mentioned pretty disparagingly in the Quran, and Muhammad was recorded as having destroyed on of the temples dedicated to Wadd (not to mention having destroyed his idol in the ka'aba, along with all the other idols).

PS: And you're actually giving Ibn Warraq as suggested reading?!
That guy's stuff's been disproven more times than the Protocols of Zion...

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. There is no other.

The pre-muslim gods had names. Allah was the name of the moon god. It was one name among many. So no .. Allah isn't 'simpy the Arabic word for God'. TODAY it may be the common word for the supreme being god, but at one time it literally was the name of the moon god.

As for the part about Allah being a "pagan moon god"...its only the fundamentalist Christians who keep rambling on about it. So one can safely dismiss those claims as hogwash.

Um .. no. It's not the 'fundamentalist Christians who keep rambling on about it'. It's just historical truth. The 'allah' nowadays is the name of the supreme being god, but back in the pre-muslim world it was the actual name given to a pagan diety. You are applying the langauge of today with things that happened 1500 years ago. The language has changed.

Originally posted by babloyi
EXACTLY the same could be said of Christianity. The jews would say the Christians "PLAGIARIZED" their religion, mixed it up with paganism, twisted it about to fit their own needs, etc. etc.

The Christians took the Old Testament from the Jews. The Christians separated themselves from the Jews by adding the New Testament and having their own religion. That's different then what Muhammad did. He took the writings of the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians and (poorly) rewrote it. He added to the writings his own musings, and he took out and changed other things to fit his claims, and then claimed it was all from God.

The moon god at the time of the Prophet Muhammad was "Wadd",

My information has that WADD was the god of love and friendship (and snakes was his symbol)

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The Christians took the Old Testament from the Jews. The Christians separated themselves from the Jews by adding the New Testament and having their own religion. That's different then what Muhammad did. He took the writings of the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians and (poorly) rewrote it. He added to the writings his own musings, and he took out and changed other things to fit his claims, and then claimed it was all from God.

Exactly. Yes, just like the Christians did with Judaism and Paganism.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
My information has that WADD was the god of love and friendship (and snakes was his symbol)

Since your information seems to be wikipedia, if you read a little further, you'll see he was a moon god.
And having something as your symbol, doesn't make you the god of it. Otherwise Christians would be worshipping the god of wooden torture and execution devices.