Population Reduction, What is the right amount of people and why?

When the population of the Earth accept that things like genetic-mutations in Humans may be the way to go, we could see a better world to live in.

We could make our species smaller.

We could make our bodies more efficient when it comes to it's energy consumption and waste.

We could integrate electronics and mechanics into our bodies to take over certain parts of it's functions, to take the strain off it's natural way of working.



Not only do we have to look at managing the Earth and our interaction with it, but we have to seriously think about the possibility that we have out-lived the bodies that nature has given us.

If we want to continue living amongst the wonders that we have created, and if we wish to keep creating a more technological world, perhaps we should look at re-designing better, more efficient Humans.





Let's consider these things.


Are we so afraid to sacrifice our out-dated bodies for a chance to have more people, more chances for ideas and a better Planet?



Most people would say 'yes.'

Originally posted by dayve
Get rid of Canada and From Texas on over, save Chicago, but the rest can go.

How old are you? Are you still on dippers?

Every human on this earth is born and dies the same. We should have equal opportunity to share and exploit its resources on equal ground. In some ways we do already. TPTB have taught us to despise all economical templates that encourage the responsibility and sharing of the resources in an equal manner. This is why we generally hate the idea of communism etc. It may be right to a degree that we are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of population control let alone just taking care of the Mother Earth, but it is not beyond us to try and create a comfortable living condition for all the children of earth. It has been proven that with a comfortable lifestyle population stabilizes within a culture. It is true, nobody has to die at this point, but the 1% has to sacrifice their dowries to the rest of the population if a good standard of living is ever to be accomplished. If advertising is abolished and we create laws that STRICTLY enforce pollution by the masses as well as the corporations, we would be fine. The masses would consume only what they need to survive and our path would weigh less upon the earth. We will all suffer the consequences of the few if we do not get our # together quick. We have not choice in the matter to be frank. It is a simple fix really, all we need to do is step up to the plate and take responsibility as a whole. It is our responsibility as the little guys to wrestle control from those who abuse it, and we must do it soon for our children's sake.

The right amount of people would maybe be 1 billion, even though that's still a staggering amount. I understand the idiotic view point that there is enough room on this planet to house X billion number of people, but people aren't the only living thing on this planet. Simply put, you can't secure that much land for human civilization without extreme habitat destruction and species extinction.

With that being said, why are humans more entitled to this planet than, say, pandas or houseflies? Life is life. To kill off species and destroy habitats so some unappreciative, ignorant people can better populate the earth is blasphemous; we're talking about ecosystems being destroyed here.

Why should population be reduced? It's not so much about resources as it is pollution and respect for other species. We share this earth, and our planet can house life because of various other lifeforms, especially trees which recycle carbon dioxide into oxygen. Turn paradise into concrete so we can build an apartment complex? No thanks.

The Ants pick the food, the Ants eat the Food and The Grasshoppers leave!

If we stopped supporting the 1%(The Grasshoppers) maybe we could get past all of this?

At what point does someone who created a multi-billion dollar corporation need all that money? Doesn’t his worker actually make the product he/she came up with? Why is the worth of a CEO more than the person that cleans up their crap?
Do Actors/Sports Professionals need all that money? How about the owners WHO DO NOTHING but own the team? Don't even get me started on the education of our youth and what we pay those poor people...

Population reduction is not the problem the number 1 Universal problem humans have is GREED!

The absolute most important issue, in my opinion, with human population is everything living that is not human. What amount of space and right do we offer everything else that is living?

reply to post by AQuestion


It isn't businesses that cause pollution. It is when people desire what they don't need that causes pollution. Having fifty choices for something to drink, all in either plastic or aluminum containers, is what causes problems. Throwing away food causes destruction of the environment. buying a tool for a one time use instead of doing it manually causes pollution. Cutting trees because you want new furniture is hard on the environment also. Businesses are just the tool we use to get what we want, by buying food full of chemicals we are responsible for the havoc it creates on the world. I put the blame on society itself. We want cheap gas, that causes a lessening of regulations. We want powerful cars to get places fast, that causes fuel waste. (I understand there are good and bad businesses but it would be suicide for a big business that employs many people to try to do things enviro friendly if everyone else is following laws that allow pollution. This reality sucks.

reply to post by rickymouse


You are 100% right, we must all share the responsibility, but it is also true that we hold those above us accountable for their mistakes. Human nature is to create as many opportunities as we can for our children but unfortunately this gets us in trouble inevitably with today's possibilities. It is noones fault, but now that we see the truth we have more responsibility to fix our indiscretions.

Surface of the earth - 510,072,000 km2
Expected human accomodation level can be created from bottom sea depth of up to 10km high building - 500 storey high.
Reserve for wilderness and food generation - 148,940,000 km2 (entire land surface area dedicated for food)
200 person per square km x 500 level = 100,000 people per square km (European cities density x 500 level high)

Human living space under, on and above the sea - 261,132,000 km2 x 500 level

Theoretical total ocean faring humans can be supported - 1.30566e+16 nuttyheads.
13 Quadrillion people ?

Assumption and points:
- Food generation is at the max efficiency and sustainable (all automated, climatic control, pest resistive, multi output etc etc). Algae perhaps ?
Space is sort of a bit cramped cities but will use less petrol.
Total clean energy generation preferred. Recycling and telecommuting of course
Outer space faring and colonies is not taken into consideration.

However sustainability is more preferred and possible will achieve more on advance era.

So, in short, you got an earth with 500 layers of houses in, on and over the sea. Also layers in the land surface providing food, water etc. Oxygen is important, so have to reserve space for planton and algae to produce it, hence the reserved sea. Both poles also occupied.
Hope this might resolve some issues and show why people go for sustainability instead of quantity.
Further reading

reply to post by NullVoid


You just beat me too it, I was just going to inform how grossly wrong the OP was in stating Australia's land area as being 7.5 billion. It must have been a mere misplacement of a comma or decimal would be my assumption. I remember when ATS was more factual than speculation. I agree with the OP's 1 km2 but that should be per family of four or five not per person. You need that much flat area to grow your vegetables, fruits, grains and raise livestock. The solution is to build up like in cities. If the Burj Khalifa was converted to an aqua farm it could feed 9.5 million people. That's taking into account the average american consumes 2000 lbs of food a year and that aqua farming can produce 250,000lbs/acre of land.

One thing i dont understand is why people choose to live in overpopulated cities and suburbs. We need to spread out so we can be comfortable....dont understand at alllllll

reply to post by NullVoid


"algae".......soylent green?

The truth is our species knows no limits and we put all our eggs in a few baskets that we can never know about involving genetic manipulation and space colonization.

We are creating outlets for the pressure and the US gov is the leader in this effort.

Need a ride home?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
There's a simple fact here which you can't seem to comprehend. The Earth is a finite size and at some point our population will reach a point where it's causing serious concerns. "The more the merrier" will not always hold true. There is a line in the sand at some point... whether you want to accept that or not. There is no "right amount" but there is an "excessive amount". If I had to guess I would say that limit is some where close to 50 billion...

Well written, C.O., but I'm afraid we've already reached a highly dangerous amount of people. Not because the planet can't support us all, but because if (when) the global economy collapses, billions of people will revert to hunting for food. We could EAT every other species right out of existence.

In the U.S. there is an overpopulation of deer right now. The count is twenty-five million. That sounds like a lot, but imagine the U.S. economy going totally bust, with 350 MILLION Americans resorting to hunting for meat. The deer would be gone in one day! Deer population

255,000 American moose - GONE in one day. U.S. Moose

286,600 - 328,000 Black Bear Gone in one day. Bear

Even in just the U.S. we really are overpopulated right now.

sadly this man is right in his calculations.

It can end only one way or a few ways that are unlikely.

Vat meat or chaos

Originally posted by phroziac
reply to post by NullVoid

 

"algae".......soylent green?

As in spirulina taste differ person to person

The keyword to population is "resource management", lets turn Sahara into farmland shall we ? Can feed entire country easily.

Why people flock to cities ? - Resource and technology

I heard in cities you can get hotdogs without the need to own cows and pigs, plus they got electric and cars and free wifi..

I forgot this part as well and even if you believe in a NWO and this has nothing to do with it...so be it.


I have to say I'm growing tired of atheists attacking god of the old testament the more they speak about the bible...though I can see why, but the new testament is infinitely worse. you cannot compare temporary suffering to infinite suffering as the new testament says. think of it like this.....after 9,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 years, I have no clue what that number is, you will be no closer to the end of your miserable suffering then the second you got there, endless howls of screams, eternal hopelessness, endless sorrow, endless misery and agony, endless physical torment that you know you never get out of it, to be aware of the countless billions others being tortured by agonizing fires of hell that neither quench and rage everlasting, for you'll wish for annihilation will never be heard nor your pleads be read, your most worse time on earth will seem like a joy ride down memory lane as you sit in a pit of fire for all eternity of agonizing suffering, all because you did not believe or where not the true Christian as some say, or if you take it a step further, you were once saved but you back slide back into sin or forfeited your salvation, or if you take it the ultimate way, your were ordained by god to be damned to show the few elect how lucky they are that god choose to show his mercy on them instead of you as the few elect watch your soul be set ablaze forever, and according to Christianity we all deserve such a fate, hell is consider just by god, by god not giving you your just punishment he is being a eternally bad judge and immoral, yet if he tortures anyone forever he is a monster worthy of eternal contempt and evil incarnated, this is the god both Christians and Muslims worship... a sick bastard indeed, but there lies the paradox just as this one does...can god kill himself? can god make us equal to his power? can god make something so small even he can't see it? this is the mental junk one has to go through by believing in this rubbish, for a child can write better stuff then this junk filled with internal inconsistencies, yet this stuff in believed by billions, people with high IQ's and many walks of life.

I do not know whether to be sad or to have pity on people who believe.

The idea that Christians await their god so he can bring the 4 horse men to the world, the seals of judgment, to unleash hell on earth that makes all the worse of human histories look like a orgasm, to think we humans not only deserve such a treatment for such a small finite crimes let alone eternal suffering shows you how this stuff is false in every-way, yet the end times # is still being preached...something I once held dear to myself. how can good people be poisoned to believe in this junk? what will it take for people to be shown this # for what it is? why let such ideas poison the mind? hell, original sin, blood sacrifices, the idea god needs constant worship and praise, the idea people fearing such a being so very much, the idea of invisible forces can cause spiritual pain.....psychological terrorism as I like to call it, and on and on we can go, yet many remain silent, do people realize this stuff is more harmful then good? this stuff makes me sick, yet, only a few I've seen call this stuff for what it really is, for it's because people are afraid to stand up when billions are for such ideas.The idea we should suspend all logic and rationality to believe in magic...god forsaken magic, magic and supernatural are not different....they are one in the same. when people see this alone this make them leave their magic fantasy based religions like Christianity and Islam.Yes, I'm angry, I'm angry that everywhere I go I'm reminded of this man made up god and everywhere I go people believe in the supernatural or magic instead of looking for real answers to real questions, real explanations, but many people take the lazy and coward way out, they want answers that are not real answers yet explain nothing but educe more questions, yet, I'm the one who is looked at as the odd one for not believing in the supernatural, but unlike many out there I'm willingly to say I do not know or will look for real answers with real explanations even if I myself cannot understand the answers with a not so great IQ I have, because it's my thirst for curiosity that wants real explanations and not to just say magic or magic man is behind it.I'm angry though I can easily hide it, but deep down I'm laughing at all people who think real magic exists....or what they call the supernatural exists......I see no difference.

Part 1

I advise all people of this world to not rely on your non existent gods or goddess or other magical creatures to aid us, if you continue to do you will watch the world burn asunder because these beings are never coming.....and if I were a intelligent race watching humans I be crying at how gullible people are or that they cling to all sorts of junk that makes no sense or would trade science for the illusion that prayer does something.....time to awake from thy dream state and see reality......because if humans continue to be so divided as they are I see a world with much more pain for them, time to fix what can be fixed and not worry about magical stuff anymore...time have thy eyes opened to see fantasy as it is.

A few people once told me I would never go back and they are right.....and after watching many youtube videos in the last mouth alone relating to this stuff not only it shows you religion and gods people describe do not stand up at all to testing, but answers people seek may be out there, but there could be things that are simply the human brain capacity will never grasp....but that is speculation on my part, but the supernatural has never been the answer nor will it ever be an answer to anything.

It's People who will change the world and perhaps one day we will realize we are not alone in the universe one day, but for now, NO gods of any kind are going to do crap...deal with it....accept it. live life and enjoy it


Take Care.

Part 2

What if we have no choice? What if we are being bred and dont even know it?

Nobody who counts or has power wants a population reduction. Look into how the fallout of the black death was linked to the Magna Carta and the rise of the middle class as we know it today and the concept of human rights and the decline of feudalism.

Many people means a large supply of easily replaceable workers. Imagine if China and India as we know it today never existed or were ravaged by war deasease and famine to the extend Europe was hit. The workers there wouldnt be so cheap or so easily replaced.