Revisiting a Jim Morrison Conspiracy...

Continued from last post:

Dionysus Link (from above post)

- SO much in that link!
- especially THIS:
"Later images show him as a beardless, sensuous, naked or half-naked androgynous youth: the literature describes him as womanly or "man-womanish."[8] In its fully developed form, his central cult imagery shows his triumphant, disorderly arrival or return, as if from some place beyond the borders of the known and civilized. His procession (thiasus) is made up of wild female followers (maenads) and ithyphallic, bearded satyrs. Some are armed with the thyrsus, some dance or play music. The god himself is drawn in a chariot, usually by exotic beasts such as lions or tigers, and is sometimes attended by a bearded, drunken Silenus. This procession is presumed to be the cult model for the human followers of his Dionysian Mysteries. In his Thracian mysteries, he wears the bassaris or fox-skin, symbolizing a new life. Dionysus is represented by city religions as the protector of those who do not belong to conventional society and thus symbolizes everything which is chaotic, dangerous and unexpected, everything which escapes human reason and which can only be attributed to the unforeseeable action of the gods"

- Silenus??? - en.wikipedia.org...
Read that real quick, and think:

- When all else fails
We can whip the horse's eyes
And make them sleep
And cry

LOL! SO deep into the rabbit hole!

reply to post by openyourmind1262


lol son you crack me up. dont know why either of us are bothering but...
the doors are considered by most one of the best bands of the sixties (of course we cant let the majority persuade us).
in the what 6 or so years they were together they put out about that many albums which 1 a year seems to be an industry average. and i am not counting all the poetry stuff that jim also recorded (which are very good if you havent heard them).
"out here, we are all stoned, immaculate."
the doors were very influential which makes them worthy of discussion in and of itself. and it is this point imho that makes for some very good conspiracy talk.
let us say that in fact jim morrison was an agent of tptb, and did influence the sixties in all its turbulence; then as tptb have their way and self destruct the things they had brought about, it might in fact make perfect sense to have one of their stars immolate himself and fake his death.
morrison is now a kind of cult figure to the darker side of stardom and human existence in general.

now if considering these things you still find the whole point of this op meaningless, then i say that you should change your nickname because you will have proven yourself to not have a very open mind.

reply to post by The Benevolent Adversary


1st off, morrison was not really a musician. he was a lyricist, a front man, and singer. YES, he was dam MUSICAL ..but he really didn't play an instrument other than his voice. i don't think he was second rate on anything other than his lack of playing a physical instrument.

he was still phenomenal and will always be remembered in history..AND SO will his band. in fact his BAND was better than him. real musicians know what i'm talking about here. without that SOUND behind him ...would it even be the same?

perfect group of guys backing him with an original sound no one will compare too.


this band was one of the best rock bands in history. anyone who bashes the doors music is clueless IMO

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by SonoftheSun

 

Answer me this. Why would a second rate musician ( my opinion) I'm sure I aint the only one. Why would he fake his own death? It's not as if he transended anything. He was'nt an extremley rich 2nd rate singer. They put out very few albums. So I don't see the point of such an elaborate hoax such as faking a death.

Just a nice way to put a spin an yet another drug addicted talent killing themselves with drugs.He was'nt that big, he was'nt that good. So, and to address your statement about other threads for me to visit, yea there is. But as far as I know there's zero rules stateing I can't join this one. Other than you taking offense to my post. Did you think everybody was gonna agree with this OP? It's ATS for crying out loud.

Hi again openyourmind,

At least you're giving more details for your opinion, rather than sarcasm...

I don't take offense for different opinions when they have more meat around the bone compared to your first reply. Asking you to find other threads was just to incite a better response, asking you why you would bother to give a sarcastic reply as there are hundreds of threads to choose from, where you could find something of interest to reply to...so I hope you understand that I appreciate that you took the time to expand, this time around...

I do take offense when a different opinion is given as if this site was youtube or facebook or twitter. It isn't. You said it yourself, this is ATS. And we're better than that.

Speaks for itself: (I think.) From album L.A. Woman.

I live uptown
I live downtown
I live all around

I had money, and I had none
I had money, and I had none
But I never been so broke
That I couldn't leave town

I'm a Changeling
See me change
I'm a Changeling
See me change

I'm the air you breath
Food you eat
Friends your greet
In the sullen street

See me change
See me change

I live uptown
I live downtown
I live all around

I had money, yeah, and I had none
I had money, yeah, and I had none
But I never been so broke
That I couldn't leave town

Well, I'm the air you breath
Food you eat
Friends your greet
In the sullen street, wow

You gotta see me change
See me change
Yeah, I'm leavin' town
On a midnight train
Gotta see me change

- I purposely picked this from the last album, and here's a snippet from another song, same album, "Cars Hiss by My Window":

A cold girl'll kill you
In a darkened room
Yeah, woo
Ride
Ride on

Finally, from the same L.A. Woman album (and the Album of the same name):

L.A. Woman (song)

Never saw a woman...
So alone, so alone
So alone, so alone

Motel Money Murder Madness
Let's change the mood from glad to sadness

Mr. Mojo Risin', Mr. Mojo Risin'
Mr. Mojo Risin', Mr. Mojo Risin'
Got to keep on risin'
Mr. Mojo Risin', Mr. Mojo Risin'
Mojo Risin', gotta Mojo Risin'
Mr. Mojo Risin', gotta keep on risin'
Risin', risin'
Gone risin', risin'
I'm gone risin', risin'
I gotta risin', risin'
Well, risin', risin'
I gotta, wooo, yeah, risin'
Woah, ohh yeah

Mr Mojo Risin was an anagram for his name, Jim Morrison... Interesting that:

The Doors only performed the song live in its entirety once, at their penultimate concert in Dallas.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I did say he was alive & well living in Gary Indiana. I guess i sh

ould have said, PUN INTENDED as some of us on here all all business all the time. Sorry if I disrupted your thread about a 2nd rate musician that died over 30 years ago. MY bad.

Come on, your just looking for attention. If someone made a thread
about a band or singer i dont like, or not in too, i would simply not
bother with the thread. Unless i wanted a bit of attention, hence,
annoying the fans.

First things first. Jim was not a musician, he was a singer. He did not
play any instrument. Second, if he was so "second rate".why is he regarded
highly by many artists and bands? You think the doors woild have been as good
without morrison? No chance! His voice, lyrics and presence made the doors
such a great band.

Before arriving at a certain conclusion either side, I think that we should first know that Jim Morrison was a great singer of The Doors and had an inflence on them…with his own poetry influenced by some authors of that time... l

Like Jay_Morris said :

“First things first. Jim was not a musician, he was a singer. He did not
play any instrument. Second, if he was so "second rate".why is he regarded
highly by many artists and bands? You think the doors woild have been as good
without morrison? No chance! His voice, lyrics and presence made the doors
such a great band.”

And then, after reading and reading about Jim Morrison, I discoverd a man without a mask…his true nature…

Now, I could say that he could faked his own death as a singer of the Doors for many reasons… and pursue a carrier as a poet elsewhere.

« Several times during the last two years of his life, Jim Morrsion said to close friends he hoped to be remembered as a poet rather than a rock singer.”

Like “Dogdish” said :

“LOL! SO deep into the rabbit hole!”

and continued with some very interesting words from the Album…

Surya ☼

reply to post by The Benevolent Adversary


I doubt your old enough to call me son, He's dead. Let him stay dead. We all have our opinions. Mine is he and a whole bunch of others from that era, get credit...where it's not due. I contend he was simply a drug addict who died a drug attic and the hangers on, just want to hang on.

IMHO, The mans not part of TPTB. He did'nt change the world. He was poet/singer . That's it. It's obvious I have stepped on the toes of the Doors fans of ATS. I offer my humble apology to you all. I have simply tried to see where and why and for the life of me I can't. I will bow out now.

I'm disappointed that the thread has already degenerated into a "he was or wasn't", rather than the "he is or isn't" thread that it started out to be.

There's really so much to discuss, especially with his background, the times, his poetry, his music...

Yes, his music. According to what I've read, Ray (Manzarek) said that he was convinced to join up with Morrison when he sang Moonlight Drive to him at Venice Beach... My memory may fail me as to the exact words and I no longer have access to the book, but I'm quite sure that was the exchange.

Morrison 'sang' the song to him. In my mind; that makes him a musician, and the voice is considered an instrument as well, and he handled his quite well.

I don't think it could be argued that there could have been a Doors without Morrison, and more than there could have been without Manzarek, or Krieger, or Densmore. Why even bother with the argument?

I'm old. I'm a fan. I thought it was great that newer generations seemed to "find" The Doors at various times since their hayday, but now I'm not quite so sure. There must be more to it than meets the ear, and I guess that some can't feel it.

Most enjoyable thread I have devoured in some time. I spent several years in my twenties living and working at a ski resort...actually living at the lodge. I was fascinated and excited by his poetry and music. We spent many evenings at altitude in a snow blown frigid landscape searching for something through his writings. It forced us to explore many things about ourselves and society. Many truths can be found and many more mysteries.

Thanks for taking me back 20+ years.

Star/flag/applaud/points and thanks to you for reopening that "door",
kinglizard


Jim Morrison poem that may hold some truth regarding his disappearance:

France is 1st, Nogales round-up
cross over the border...
land of eternal adolescence
quality of despair unmatched
anywhere on the perimeter
Message from the outskirts
calling us home
This is the private space of a
new order. We need saviors.
To help us survive the journey.
Now who will come?
Now hear this:
We have started the crossing
Who knows? it may end badly.

The actors are assembled;
immediately they become
enchanted
I, for one, am in ecstasy
enthralled.
Can I convince you to smile?

No wise men now.
Each on his own
grab your daughter & run.

To really comprehend the fact that Morrison could have faked his death, one has to look at the man and not the singer from the Doors. I might be repeating myself here, but Morrison had valid reasons to cheat death.

I don't believe that comparing a faked Morrison death with other celebrities such as Elvis, or MJ, or John Lennon for instance, gives this conspiracy justice. Morrison was a writer, first and foremost. He had a passion for reading and a passion for writing, he never had a passion for singing. He did exceptionally well (my opinion) but it wasn't his primary path.

Morrison was reading Ginsberg books in his 8th grade !! How many people do that? He had a passion for poetry. Whether he was a good poet or not is irrelevant. It was his passion.

Some folks still think that he was this drug addict when he died. That he was at the end of the roll and his health was failing. That is untrue. He always had a strict policy against hard drugs. He was in perfect health when he left for Paris. He had started to write again. He felt alive again. He felt free again.

And he dies of a heart attack?

Just that, is enough to raise questions.

But then the conflicting testimonies, the badly handled paperwork, the change of manager - from Siddons to Sugerman (which happened to co author a biography with Hopkins (who happened to travel back and forth from Thailand from 71 to 80 when he released his book)) - the greek epitaph from his father...(do I need to mention that Jim and his father were at the extreme ends of the spectrum relation wise)...the innuendos from Manzarek - who also happened to write a novel about a guy faking his death - the false story from Courson that she killed him...and it goes on and on and on...

My goodness. 2+2=10 in this case.

The only way to debunk this conspiracy would be to exhume his body. He knew that and chose the Pere Lachaise cemetery. So THAT, will never happen.

The perfect plot.

Or, as I said in the OP, he really did die, on july 3rd 1971, in Paris, of a heart attack. But I wouldn't bet my life on that...

Originally posted by HabiruThorstein
Jim was a drunk. So was Van Gogh (who is also dead). The romanticizing of the 'Forever Young' types happens all the time and certainly gave the Doors a post-mortem boost. But Jim's drinking habit was legendarily excessive by all accounts of those around him-and on public display for all to see during their final act

Nobody would disagree however drugs and alcohol are used as an escape from a particular reality. His drunkenness only shows to me how hard he was trying to escape from the cage in which he found himself.

I broke down his writing to show his intent to fake his own death in a desperate attempt to find happiness. NOBODY WILL TAKE THE TIME BUT....Compare line by line as indicated by the comparative numbering.


Jim Morrison's POEM


1) France is 1st, Nogales round-up
2) cross over the border...
3) land of eternal adolescence
4) quality of despair unmatched
5) anywhere on the perimeter
6) Message from the outskirts
7) calling us home
8) This is the private space of a
9) new order. We need saviors.
10) To help us survive the journey.
11) Now who will come?
12) Now hear this:
13) We have started the crossing
14) Who knows? it may end badly.

15) The actors are assembled;
16) immediately they become
17) enchanted
18) I, for one, am in ecstasy
19) enthralled.
20) Can I convince you to smile?

21) No wise men now.
22) Each on his own
23) grab your daughter & run.



MY INTERPRETATION



1) France is a place to reconvene
2) I just need to to leave this place....
3) France is a place where I can feel like myself again
4,5) The life I am living is unbearable, france is the only place free from despair
6,7) I am being called to relive/regain a lost time
8,9,10,11) I can find the solitude & privacy in Paris France, I need to survive and someone to save me (dr. Death)...who will support me?
12,13,14) I have started to put things in order by leaving the US, I hope things go my way.
15) I have people in place to facilitate my freedom
16,17) They feel important because of their connection to me
18,19) I am beyond happy that they will play along
20) Is there any way you can understand my position and approve of my decision with gayness
21) I need to escape the people controlling my life
22) I will find my own way and follow it
23) I need to take what is dear to me and disappear from sight.

reply to post by kinglizard


A well worth reading contribution!!

If I may...

1 - 3 could also mean Thailand.

4 - 5 His American Fame way of life.

6 - 7 could be a reference to Death calling.

8 - 11 could be choosing who would be in on the plot.

12 - 14 It's all in the works but it could fail.

15 - (8 - 11) confirmed.

16 - 19 They understand and he's overwhelmed.

20 - That could be written for Manzarek and/or Courson

21 - He got rid of the power controlling his life.

22 - "True to his spirit".

23 - No looking back.



My sister has sent me tons of information to look at regarding testimonies and inconsistencies. They are all in french - a lot from France - and it takes time to read and translate the hot points. But I will get back on here with additional info in the days to come.



KingLizard, I have to ask. Your handle was chosen having Morrison in mind, wasn't it?

Nice interpretation. Because Jim was a writer I believe with the proper perspective we can through his poetry see his belief, theory and intent. I don't profess to be an expert in JM and his life but like most things I try to boil down the words to the simplest expression without inserting my own leanings..however difficult that may be at times.

No doubt my ATS name (kinglizard) cane from Mr. Mojo Risin (anagram of Jim Morrison). I didn't use the lizard king out of respect.

reply to post by kinglizard


Very interesting interpretation!

Certainly nothing to disagree with, that's one of the best things about the poetry/music of that era. Many deep meanings for many deep people. Probably hundreds that the artist themselves didn't even think of.

The one thing that sticks out to me in your interpretation was (and I guess you're waiting for someone to comment on this, lol) was "his gayness".

I never gave that much thought, assuming "love your neighbor til his wife gets home" was a play on the "love your neighbor" attitude of the times, Jesus Freaks (as they were called) and also a method to shock and twist the brain of the listener... which it kinda did!
I suppose his androgynous act could have been more than an act, he certainly 'walked the walk' in all his other interests, if all I've read is to be believed. I suppose that would be a good reason to get away, if he didn't want to "shame" his father or something... Would explain why he "died" on the same day his father "Admiral Morrison, was the keynote speaker at the decommissioning ceremony for Bon Homme Richard".
Perhaps this was a good time to start over for both of them.

France is 1st, Nogales round-up
cross over the border...
land of eternal adolescence
quality of despair unmatched
anywhere on the perimeter
Message from the outskirts
calling us home
This is the private space of a
new order. We need saviors.
To help us survive the journey.
Now who will come?
Now hear this:
We have started the crossing
Who knows? it may end badly.

The actors are assembled;
immediately they become
enchanted
I, for one, am in ecstasy
enthralled.
Can I convince you to smile?

No wise men now.
Each on his own
grab your daughter & run.

Here's mine:

Leaving France for Nogales, Sonoran Desert, where he had his traumatic adolescent experience with the dying Indian, who he said possessed his body from then on.
"Quality of despair unmatched"
He feels a calling "home", and is looking for those like-minded to join him. He already gets the message.

I think this part talks about all of us, as we're entering this earthly existence. He sees us as anxious to fulfill a destiny, and as soon as we get here we lose sight of that, enamored of the world and "enchanted" by it.
He for one, is awake, and aware of his own mission. He wants you to go for it as well. ("Can I convince you to smile?")
"Grab your daughter and run"? That one's got me, maybe it's a reference to Myrrha:

Myrrha appears in the Divine Comedy poem Inferno by Dante Alighieri, where Dante sees her soul being punished in the eighth circle of Hell, in the tenth bolgia (ditch). Here she and other falsifiers such as the alchemists and the counterfeiters suffer dreadful diseases, Myrrha's being madness.[45][46] Myrrha's suffering in the tenth bolgia indicates her most serious sin was not incest[nb 16] but deceit.[48] Diana Glenn interprets the symbolism in Myrrha's contrapasso as being that her sin is so unnatural and unlawful that she is forced to abandon human society and simultaneously she loses her identity. Her madness in Hell prevents even basic communication which attests to her being contemptuous of the social order in life.

(Emphasis Mine)

What I remember most easily of the "An American Prayer" album was Jim shouting "Awake!", and the others from "The Crystal Ship" through "The Soft Parade" all strung together seem to lead to my interpretation, and beg us to "Break On Through to The Other Side"!

Is this Jim?? What do you think?
IMHO there's some resemblance, except the singing

I'd like to know exactly when that poem was written...could shed some light on it's true meaning. As we know poets spill out their soul in words so it is his words that must lead us to the conclusion. That's the beauty of a poet...

Unbelievable research happening here.

Dogdish, Thanks for posting that video.

I spent a night of insomnia listening to all his albums and poetry thanks to this thread.

I realize that it may lead us to different interpretations ...

Personally, I would say that Jim Morrison was a genius of poetry ...

I'd just like to add, before reaching a drastic conclusion like thoses :: "Jim Morrison is dead" or "he faked his death," I would say that we must read a lot before arriving at some conclusion ...

After readind his history, his life and his whole “career on the roads”... beyond "parrots of the Internet."

I think that we have to discover another side of Jim Morrison through his poems set in his songs ...

“The doors” are opened….

Surya ☼

First of all, I think that we have to discover another side of Jim Morrison. He studied in cinema and made a movie in 1969 “HWY-An Américan Pastoral” :

video.google.com...

Now, we have to understand why Jim Morrison was a good friend of Agnès Varda, Jacques Demy like in this scene :

www.youtube.com...

Jim Morrison made a brief appearance as an extra in Agnès Varda's film "Lions Love.".

In conclusion, I would like to say that Jim Morrison is much more… that we can read in internet.

Surya ☼