Believer turned skeptic. Help a bored dude out.

Couple things.

Phoenix Lights.
I was born in phoenix, and was there when the event happened tho I was young and didn't see it myself. I remember hearing about it all growing up and it was just another conspiracy story. Till I read an account from the ex-mayer in a UFO magazine years later. Learning the details of this massive sighting is what stirred my interest in Ufology.

Why do almost no documentaries mention that there were flares dropped by airplanes, and were videotaped as well? and why do most of them conveniently forget to mention that it was actually two events, two completely different descriptions, and no video exists of the huge triangular craft? What about the only person who saw the triangular craft with something other than his naked eye, a telescope, claim without a doubt it was airplanes flying in formation?

I invite you to contradict this info, I would love to learn more that could give the story more credit; tho this is not the main question im asking. im more looking for why documentaries leave out this type of information. I can safely say that most people in the professional science community would immediately be skeptical of all the info since some was left out, and in turn discredit anyone who was part of presenting the limited information. This is a major problem if you ever want full disclosure. Ufologists have to start presenting the information without bias even if it makes the story less interesting. In the long run, if there really is merit to all of this, it would be much more beneficial.
If they are just trying to play the governments game, and think its the only way to win the public over, I think they are wrong. To win the public, you gotta win the scientists. Or atleast a good portion of them. And it will be easy with real proof. No one wants to find out we have intelligent life with technology vastly superior to our own visting us all the time than scientists. Its like a ticket to the future.

reply to post by ubeenhad


The fact that this supposed proof isn't publicly available should tell you everything. If it isn't public access, it's dangerous. Why would it be dangerous? Because no matter what it is, it's a secret being kept from us.

It doesn't matter what the secret is; it means we're being lied to.

reply to post by ubeenhad




Trust me when I say, they're out there. Any specific "sighting" is not what should be focused on at this point, it's the paradigm of sentient/organic life originating from places other than planet Earth. It's simplistic.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What are you referring too?

reply to post by ubeenhad


All the secrets our government keeps from us. Duh.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


I had that kind of night last night, too. It wasn't pretty, but thankfully, I don't have a clear impression of it now. Still, this is the type of thread, I think, where every post must be taken with a lots of salt.

OP, it is my humble opinion that you should remain a skeptic, but not allow your reluctance to play a bigger role than a root in your path. Do not let it become a brick wall - just let it slow you down enough to take a good hard look at whatever evidence is being offered to you.

Originally posted by ubeenhad
Couple things.

Phoenix Lights.
I was born in phoenix, and was there when the event happened tho I was young and didn't see it myself. I remember hearing about it all growing up and it was just another conspiracy story. Till I read an account from the ex-mayer in a UFO magazine years later. Learning the details of this massive sighting is what stirred my interest in Ufology.

Why do almost no documentaries mention that there were flares dropped by airplanes, and were videotaped as well?

I watched a documentary that did mention the flares. And, even the governor (Fife Symington?) saw the lights.
Why would so many people lie, though?

Originally posted by ubeenhad
Why do almost no documentaries mention that there were flares dropped by airplanes, and were videotaped as well? and why do most of them conveniently forget to mention that it was actually two events, two completely different descriptions, and no video exists of the huge triangular craft? What about the only person who saw the triangular craft with something other than his naked eye, a telescope, claim without a doubt it was airplanes flying in formation?

I do agree with you that many or most documentaries seem to get their facts messed up on the "Phoenix Lights" incident(s). I am certainly no expert on it, but my understanding is that the video that is usually shown is the flares that were dropped by A-10 "warthogs" on an exercise out of Luke Air Force Base. This occurred about 10:00 PM.

The original sighting of the "boomerang UFO" flyover occurred earlier in the evening - about 8:15 to 8:45PM.

I think that one problem with documentaries is they are almost always made with the purpose of entertainment, and put very little emphasis on getting the facts right and doing any sort of thorough investigation.

I have no idea what was actually flying over that night as I wasn't there, but I agree with you that it gets very hard to have much confidence when there is so much poor information spread around.

This is a criticism that applies to both the "believers" and the "skeptics" who are putting together documentaries.

Originally posted by ubeenhad
Why do almost no documentaries mention that there were flares dropped by airplanes, and were videotaped as well? and why do most of them conveniently forget to mention that it was actually two events, two completely different descriptions, and no video exists of the huge triangular craft? What about the only person who saw the triangular craft with something other than his naked eye, a telescope, claim without a doubt it was airplanes flying in formation?

I could be wrong, but most people who actually care about this event already know this. There are a number of discussions of this very topic, and the details are pretty well-known.

But the ultimate upshot of the whole event was... nothing. Nothing worthwhile happened. Nothing was gained. We didn't learn anything more about anything, and the whole thing continues to drift back in time with no new information coming forth. Typical UFO nonsense. Time travelers going back and cleaning up anything of potential value, leaving us with exactly jack diddly squat.

reply to post by bluestreak53


It seems to me they deliberately distort the facts for "entertainment". But is that all Ufologists want? Shouldn't full disclosure be their mission if they are true to their cause?

does anyone know of any good, objective literature on the phoenix lights?

so called ufoligists will jump on any light and shout alien spacecraft
people saw flares in phoneix thats what the proof points to
if anyone else has proof of anything besides flares i would love to see that
i promise a 100 percent no one has proof to say otherwise

reply to post by itsnotme


uh oh. I might be new, but I already know thats asking for it haha.

Bah nvm.

Originally posted by Soloro
Bah nvm.

edit on 28-9-2012 by Soloro because: (no reason given)

well said

reply to post by ubeenhad

you have to ask
otherwise you are blindly following
most ufo believers still think greer is there saviour

Originally posted by ubeenhad
reply to post by bluestreak53

 

It seems to me they deliberately distort the facts for "entertainment". But is that all Ufologists want? Shouldn't full disclosure be their mission if they are true to their cause?

does anyone know of any good, objective literature on the phoenix lights?

It is very rare that ufologists make documentaries. Most of the time they have absolutely zero say on what gets put into the documentaries they are interviewed in.

I don't know of any good info sources for the Phoenix Lights.

Originally posted by itsnotme
so called ufoligists will jump on any light and shout alien spacecraft
people saw flares in phoneix thats what the proof points to
if anyone else has proof of anything besides flares i would love to see that
i promise a 100 percent no one has proof to say otherwise

You don't seem to have much of an attention span. If you had even read through this thread you would know that the flare drop was at 10:00 PM. The "main event" was a UFO flyover at 8:15 to 8:45 PM earlier the same night.

That wasn't a "flare drop" as the lights (and possibly "boomerang craft") flew over Phoenix.

reply to post by bluestreak53


Is that really the case?
Isn't there a few out there that were done directly by famous Ufologists? (im thinking of friedman specifically)

Most of our "big name" ufologists have let us down by their selective reporting of all known variables. Shame on them.

Dr. Jacques Vallee suggests staying away from the highly-promoted cases and study instead the less well-known cases that don't have as much hyperbole surrounding them. I think that's wise advice.

Once the less ethical ufologists and the media get hold of a case, the misinformation hopelessly and exponentially multiplies.

Because of the reality of the flares and the media field day, I too have to mostly disregard the Phoenix lights, although I do think it worthwhile to consider some of the witness testimony.

Intelligent and ethical skeptics are the best friend ufology has...they help us separate the wheat from the chaff.