Another Untold Military Aircraft At Area 51

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


Seems like there's something terribly wrong with the images...Agree

That doesn't look like groom lake to me in the second pic

All of the pictures are fake. I'm not sure what the second one was, but the one with the F-86 taking off, was I believe a pair of F-86s in formation.

The Avro Car was never flown at Groom Lake. Wind tunnel tests were performed at the Ames research facility, and "flight" tests were performed at the Avro facility.

like been said , clearly fake , lol.

No crap it's a fake. The "saucer craft" has no propulsion system.

2nd

reply to post by jacknast76


Only the pictures are fake. The saucer itself is quite real. Yes, it does have a propulsion system.

The Avro-Car was (depending on the source of the information) 18 or 25 feet in diameter, and weighed 3600 lb. It was powered by three centrally mounted gas turbine engines driving a 5 feet diam. central fan used for vertical takeoff. Once in the air the turbo-jet exhaust would be shifted to the rear giving the vehicle forward thrust to allow the aerodynamic body to generate lift.

www.unrealaircraft.com...

A.V. Roe (Avro) Aircraft Limited (later Avro Canada) based its design concept for the Avrocar on using the exhaust from turbojet engines to drive a circular "turborotor" which produced thrust. By directing this thrust downward, the turborotor would create a cushion of air (also known as "ground effect") upon which the aircraft would float at low altitude. When the thrust was directed toward the rear, the aircraft would accelerate and gain altitude.

TECHNICAL NOTES:
Crew: Two
Engines: Three Continental J69-T9 turbojets of 927 lbs. thrust each
Wingspan: 18 ft.
Height: 4 ft. 10 in.
Weight: 4,620 lbs. empty

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil...

reply to post by Zaphod58



The craft shown in the op picture does not have a propulsion system. You showed a different craft in your post. Nice try.

reply to post by jacknast76


Like I said, the PICTURES are fake, but they're based on a real craft, the Avrocar. It was designed in the 1950s, and flew a few feet off the ground. It was a hovercraft without the skirt around it.

The avro car has 2 cockpits on each side and it is even much smaller in diameter than the made up disk in the fake pictures.

reply to post by jacknast76


Ok, seriously, I'm agreeing with you that the pictures are fakes. The idea was taken from the Avrocar, and from projects related to the Avrocar, when the military thought that flying disk designs were the wave of the future.

Originally posted by redbarron626
This story has been around for a while now. This is an LRV Lenticular Re-Entry Vehicle used by the USAF for recon and spy missions. It was designed to go into low earth orbit and rain down nuclear destruction. There are several sizes of these from 40 feet to over 100 feet in diameter that were flown out of Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio and at Kirtland AFB in New Mexico. Undoubtedly these are the responsible for many flying saucer sightings throughout the 60's and 70's.

"many"? Such recon and spy mission planes would never have been used often enough to account for the numerous sightings of UFOs during the 60's and 70''s. Besides, such secret aircraft would never have been sighted flying over urban areas at a few hundred feet - as many UFOs have been. If they were responsible at all, a more accurate estimate would be the word "some".

reply to post by Zaphod58


roger that, sorry, just being a bit ornery.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
All of the pictures are fake. I'm not sure what the second one was, but the one with the F-86 taking off, was I believe a pair of F-86s in formation.

Look again. Actually an F-84F.

Judging by the canopy it's either the XF-96A or a very early production model.

reply to post by _Del_


Eh, I just glanced at the fake one, I had seen it so many times I automatically went to "fake" and didn't take a closer look at what the plane was.

But I stand corrected.

I think we can all agree that the pictures in the OP are fake; Here are links to some of the originals as they looked before Michael Schratt turned them into something bogus.


www.dfrc.nasa.gov...

www.dfrc.nasa.gov...


As far as I can tell from my research, Schratt's claims have no basis in reality. He did not base his images on the Avro disc or any other actual, known aircraft or concept. He based it on a story that some guy told him about jet-powered disc planes allegedly stored in the open at a base in Florida (I believe it was MacDill) during the 1960s. Even putting aside the fact that no aviation historian or aircraft manufacturer seems to have ever heard of this vehicle, the design as illustrated is absurd. Poor forward visibility and atrocious engine airflow problems at positive angles of attack, unstable configuration 9particularly for an era with no flight control computers), and the less said about the landing gear the better. Schratt's "forensic reconstructions" (i.e., fake pictures) lead the unsuspecting viewer to assume that the airplane was tested at Area 51 or was a NASA project, even though Schratt's source never made any such claims.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


I came across the story late last night about how he was let into the storage area to see these amazing aircraft. I read about five or six lines and my BS meter was pegged.

THEY DO EXIST: Jack and Harold learned that some experimental jet aircraft were being stored at the base salvage/scrap-yard. These particular aircraft had already been decommissioned/declassified, and were parked directly outside, and NOT in a hangar. In September of 1967, both Jack and Harold drove together to where these aircraft were being parked. Upon arriving at the chain link fence, which surrounded the perimeter of the base near the scrap-yard, Jack first saw the most awe-inspiring aircraft ever built. Jack's initial thought was: "My gosh! Those are Flying Saucers! Those things really do exist!". There, in outside parked storage, were four flying wing discs, measuring 20 to 108 feet in diameter. Because they were the last remaining of their model, the Master Sergeant of the Non-Commissioned Officer's Club telephoned the Adjutant General's Office for permission for polaroid photographs to be taken, even though all of the tires were completely flat down to their wheel rims. The General's Office (headed by base commander William M. Wilson) suggested that Jack use higher quality official Air Force photographs available at the Adjutant General's library at MacDill. Under armed guard, Jack was personally shown literally hundreds of official U.S.A.F. photographs of these aircraft in formation flight, on the tarmac, and was shown portions of motion picture footage of these aircraft in flight. Jack was allowed to select those photographs best suited for the up-coming NCO Club newsletter article, and obtain additional detailed information concerning the discs. It's important to note, that these four aircraft are NOT to be confused with the well known Avro VZ-9 Avrocar, Chance Vought V-173 "Flying Pancake", Project Silverbug, or the Chance Vought XF5U-1.

THE LARGE DISC: Measuring 108 feet in diameter, and standing 12' off of the ground, the largest of the four discs must have been a sight to behold. The O.I.C. permitted Jack to walk under and around this aircraft, and was actually allowed to kick the tires of the smaller 40' craft, while the O.I.C. stood nearby and snapped a photo in the process. Jack specifically noted that the port main landing gear was partially collapsed, causing the aircraft to lean to the left. Each main landing gear consisted of 6 wheels, measuring 5' in diameter. The nose gear had an incredible 32 wheels, each measuring 2-1/2 to 3 feet in diameter. A door was located on the port side of the craft, for access to the crew compartment. Immediately behind the door, were three windows that ran along both sides of the fuselage. These may have been stations for the flight engineer, navigator, and weapon systems operator. The large craft employed two air-intakes on both sides of the crew compartment, and four exhaust ports at the aft bottom end of the craft. The air intakes blended beautifully into the sides of the fuselage and upper portion of the disc. Jack specifically recalls that the unusually high vertical stabilizer was "higher than shopping mall parking lot lights". It was evident that the landing gear retracted inside the main body of the disc, with the gear moving up and away from the centerline of the aircraft. Flight control surfaces were located along the circumference of the disc, similar to the 20' model. Jack remembers seeing what may have been bomb bay doors located on the bottom surface of the disc. These may have been used for the release of 10' diameter in-flight radio controlled flying wing disc bomb drones. Indeed, Jack remembers seeing flying wing disc drones in various stages of disrepair at the scrap-yard, near the four discs. These bombs were capable of being delivered with "pin-point" accuracy decades before Lockheed F-117 Stealth Fighters dropped "smart bombs" on Iraq during the Gulf War. This indicates that the primary mission for this aircraft may have been that of a long range reconnaissance bomber. Jack was told that this aircraft regularly over-flew Russia after WWII, but was told: "you can't print that".

www.ufowisconsin.com...

Not sure if this was answered... I just kinda glanced at the whole post cause I swear these photos were covered on ATS years ago. But that is not Groom Lake (Area 51), It's Edwards AFB.

Additional note, if anyone is interested in trying to find it; These photos came up on a TV show, and were based off a man who claimed he had seen a similar craft at Edwards (as others have mentioned) and it was clearly pointed out that they were artistic composites. In fact I think I remember that the guy who had them made was part of the interviews. May have been a NatGeo/History Channel program.