Would would be the actual ramifications if everyone in the US stopped paying federal taxes?

I'm not even about to wrap my head around it because I don't know enough about the tax system or what would happen if the federal government all of a sudden had no money, hell, I think they already have no money, or tons of negative money right? But seriously, could the states get by without federal help (assuming you still paid state taxes). They certainly couldn't lock everyone up, sure they could impose fines, and some people may get locked up, but there is no way they could round up everybody.

I'm not trying to say that everyone should stop paying federal tax, certainly that would be impossible to convince EVERYONE to stop doing it, I'm just curious of what would happen.
Anyone with more knowledge of the situation?
Couldn't we as a people put a stop to the wars?

reply to post by gopher mines


Dear gopher mines,

Immediate effect, 6 million new unemployed. We would have no military and no federal government, the states would take over everything. There would be no food stamps or welfare effecting untold millions. The rich would get even richer and we 50, third world nations. There would be no organization or institution to enforce the constitution. Your bridges and highways would fall apart and states would start charging each other tariffs. That happened before, prior to the Constitution we had the Articles of Confederation, it failed miserably. Perhaps the better question is how do we fix the federal government. IMHO.

reply to post by AQuestion


I don't see that this would be a bad thing.
The only thing protecting the rich is the 6 million that would go unemployed.
We don't need a military.
I would gladly pay a fee to use the roads.
A fresh start would be great.

reply to post by AQuestion

Antifederalist No. 35 FEDERAL TAXING POWER MUST BE RESTRAINED (George Mason)

(excerpt)

Mr. Chairman, whether the Constitution be good or bad, the present clause [Article 1, Section 2] clearly discovers that it is a national government, and no longer a Confederation. I mean that clause which gives the first hint of the general government laying direct taxes. The assumption of this power of laying direct taxes does, of itself, entirely change the confederation of the states into one consolidated government. This power, being at discretion, unconfined, and without any kind of control, must carry every thing before it.The very idea of converting what was formerly a confederation to a consolidated government is totally subversive of every principle which has hitherto governed us. This power is calculated to annihilate totally the state governments. Will the people of this great community [Virginia] submit to be individually taxed by two different and distinct powers? Will they suffer themselves to be doubly harassed? These two concurrent powers cannot exist long together; the one will destroy the other. The general government being paramount to, and in every respect more powerful than the state governments, the latter must give way to the former....

www.wepin.com...

I have already stopped. I will no longer recognize the legitimacy or authority of the federal government until they return to Constitutional governance. I will not comply with bammy care. I will not support multiple wars. I will not support those who refuse to support themselves. I will not support the murder of millions of innocent babies.

You can`t really stop paying taxes can you? because the taxes are taken out of your pay before you even get it.

You can chose to have it taken out, or to pay it come tax time. You could send the extra money that would have gone to the federal government and give it to local government, that way our roads will still be taken care of, schools, etc...

reply to post by Tardacus


That is one of the main driving forces behind a cashless society.
Then all transactions would be accounted for.

Originally posted by Tardacus
You can`t really stop paying taxes can you? because the taxes are taken out of your pay before you even get it.

Yes you can. You can become self employed or work for cash like the illegals do.

The problem is that it can't be done. Most all employees are subject to employer withholding. The tax gets taken out before your paycheck is even printed. Sure, if you are self-employed you can take the risk, but most of us aren't, and that's just what they want. The trend toward online transactions and deposits, where you never even see a check, will pretty well seal the deal. I work(ed) for a firm that had about 250 employees. Three of them aren't on auto deposit and the pressure for them to get with the program is immense. I really do expect them to require it within a year or two.

Just for S&G's you can pretend it could happen. With no Federal Government, there are a whole lot of things that would not happen. The vacuum would be filled by enterprising petty tin pot dictators of, say, New Jersey. (The Mob would do nicely.) And I pretty much guarantee you wouldn't like how it all turned out. Be careful what you wish for.

reply to post by frazzle


Dear frazzle,

And your point is? I neither take a for or against position, the question was asked what would occur. What argument are you attempting to make? Do you think ending federal income tax will have no effect? Answer the OPs question, will the world suddenly be all flowers and wonderful, will there be no negative effects? What are you saying? Give us your position rather than posting what someone else said alone.

If we all stopped paying taxes, the US would default on its debt.
We would still have to pay it back, though possibly over a longer period at higher interest, but more importantly confidence in the US, the dollar, and our bonds would drop through the floor. It would throw the entire worlds economic system into a tailspin, and a depression like never seen before in history. We'd see mass unemployment, market crashes, protests, and very possibly wars break out over it. China, who holds massive amounts of our debt, would be exceptionally ticked off by this, and gawd only knows what they would do about it.

reply to post by defcon5


Dear defcon5,

Yep. That would also be the effects. What happens when you don't pay people back, they stop trusting you and stop loaning you anything. If you don't pay your debts it becomes a barter system world.

reply to post by defcon5


I don't see that as a definite outcome but more near the worst case scenario.
I think the world could find a way to keep the trade moving without a bunch of numbers in a computer.
We have never seen this so it is hard to imagine.
There would need to be some type of positive change like free energy.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by frazzle

 

Dear frazzle,

And your point is? I neither take a for or against position, the question was asked what would occur. What argument are you attempting to make? Do you think ending federal income tax will have no effect? Answer the OPs question, will the world suddenly be all flowers and wonderful, will there be no negative effects? What are you saying? Give us your position rather than posting what someone else said alone.

My point is that this isn't a new question and is one that was asked and answered by people who were delegates to the constitutional convention. The one that I referenced called it subversive.

Income tax has nothing to do with government needing money, its about power and control ~ and fear. Quantative easing proves that they can print all the money they need and simply tax us via the inflation it causes. Or they could institute a national sales tax. But neither of those will make people crazy with fear of the "tax man".

reply to post by deadeyedick

I don't see that this would be a bad thing. The only thing protecting the rich is the 6 million that would go unemployed.

Some may consider the famine and suffering of those people as a bad thing, not to mention the imminent deaths and anarchy that would ensue.
Is the suffering of many worth justice of a few?

We don't need a military.

Without it you would just end up paying taxes in another currency.

I would gladly pay a fee to use the roads.

Then keep paying it.

Originally posted by thatonedude
reply to post by deadeyedick

 

I don't see that this would be a bad thing. The only thing protecting the rich is the 6 million that would go unemployed.

Some may consider the famine and suffering of those people as a bad thing, not to mention the imminent deaths and anarchy that would ensue.
Is the suffering of many worth justice of a few?

We don't need a military.

Without it you would just end up paying taxes in another currency.

I would gladly pay a fee to use the roads.

Then keep paying it.

Oh it would be terrible if government employees had to join the real world.
A voluntary army would be enough protection.
A system of registering a vehicle is enough. We don't need all the extra unaccounted for taxes.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by frazzle

 

Dear frazzle,

And your point is? I neither take a for or against position, the question was asked what would occur. What argument are you attempting to make? Do you think ending federal income tax will have no effect? Answer the OPs question, will the world suddenly be all flowers and wonderful, will there be no negative effects? What are you saying? Give us your position rather than posting what someone else said alone.

My point is that this isn't a new question and is one that was asked and answered by people who were delegates to the constitutional convention. The one that I referenced called it subversive.

Income tax has nothing to do with government needing money, its about power and control ~ and fear. Quantative easing proves that they can print all the money they need and simply tax us via the inflation it causes. Or they could institute a national sales tax. But neither of those will make people crazy with fear of the "tax man".

Dear frazzle,

It seems you favor a use tax over an income tax. Give a tax based on what you buy rather than what you benefit from the system. The system is all of us. If I benefit the system, should I benefit more from the system? Define a "fair" economic system because we sure don't have one. Mitt Romney makes tens of millions and pay 15%, I make six figures (ignoring how much the ex gets) and pay 30+%. What am I missing?

A consumption tax makes the most sense. Consumption uses valuable resources. Punish consumption instead of productivity and work. When you punish a behavior, you generally get less of that behavior. This is illustrated by the huge class of non-workers we now have. I do not refer to those laid off who would like to get back to work, but those who choose not to work and instead vote democrat for a living.

reply to post by AQuestion

Dear frazzle,

It seems you favor a use tax over an income tax. Give a tax based on what you buy rather than what you benefit from the system. The system is all of us. If I benefit the system, should I benefit more from the system? Define a "fair" economic system because we sure don't have one. Mitt Romney makes tens of millions and pay 15%, I make six figures (ignoring how much the ex gets) and pay 30+%. What am I missing?

Everybody has their druthers. For me it would be import tariffs and duties on products made in other countries if for no other reason than it would cost the corporations who skedaddled with our jobs to countries where they could exploit cheap labor and sell the goods to us, duty free, for the same amount we'd have to pay if they were made in America. These corporations benefit from this skewed system more than either the foreign workers or US consumers, or even the government.