Lets invade all the middle east and get it over with.

Im full of Irony.

However, everyones arguments are simply void. Old hat. Heard it all before...yardy yardy yardy.

I've come to realise you just can't argue with stupid...you just have to invade stupid ....and help the stupid out of the stupidity that they have been forced into.

As for fat kids. Im all for healthy eating. However, recent studies prove without a doubt being fat does not reduce your life expectancy ...go figure. You won't find me eating Mac D's but if you want to be a 40 stone cheese ball...be my guest.

....but you still wont find me strapping kids to my car and using them as bullet shields.

...Well, peace and love has got us no where so far....maybe a few more joints being smoked and a few more self help books that we all need. No, I think the only thing that will work is all out war with the east. Its being going on now for soooooo long its just silly. Just fight it out. As one guys said millions have died already.

Being Human....Its like being part of a giant joke. Listening to all the #e.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Yeah....i've been an advocate of Peace and Intelligence now for many years......

.....never seems to work though... I struggle finding either quality in 99% of people.

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus
Am I buying into the propaganda? I dont know: www.euronews.com...


So....yes I think we should just get this thing over with...lets have a flipin war!!!. I'm tired of the retarded shisters running these African and Arabian states... Your all mental. And , after watching any news station...you all commit so much pain and murder...you deserve to be cleaned off the face of earth.

Lets have a flipin war and get this thing over with....

...or has the Propaganda got to me......

OP

I'm with you

I think realistically as a society we live in a a place where we are free to be enlightened, most of the posters are on the attack against what you had to say because they know the reasons our govt gives to go to war are nonsense, because tolerance of others is the best way to live and that is for the most part absolutely true because in war innocents die and that is a deplorable aspect and a reason to eliminate war.

None the less you are correct.

One way or another this will happen, this is where we become a globe, this is where the Earth becomes small, this is where the last great epoch of religious thought will die and...

well change, it comes via chaos and as much as we abhor chaos it is the nature of things.

It simply wont work, freedom of speech and thought and expression can't coexist with religious doctrine, you can't have gay marriage when Millions and Millions of people will give their lives to stop such a thing. Stem cell research gives man the capacity to live for hundreds of years, God says that is an abomination for all intents and purposes. etc, etc et al

The best we can hope for without intervention is a portion of the globe permanently marginalized if they hold these beliefs, a Billion women left for all intents and purposes in shackles, people that die decades younger than we do generation after generation a wealth disparity across a 3rd of the world that is abominable when you see it.

Truth be told if the mideast didn't have oil it would be as bad off as Africa by belief and culture (most of it at least) when... not if we remove our dependence on oil the region is done as it is right now the rest of the world shackled to provision of food and endless division.

No matter how we go about this, a lot of people will die.

Is WAR the answer?

Realistically we should just get aggro about ending our oil dependency BUT, we'd still be killing a lot of people

We could also walk away from Israel (seems to be an Obama move) BUT, Israel will still be put one way or another in a situation to nuke the region,I do NOT take sides or think the Israelis are wonderful, they are not... but 7 invasions says to me it will happen again, Israel can attack and maybe, maybe survive (doubtful) or it can wait and launch the attack post it's destruction from silo and sub

either way without intervention the region is doomed.

Only the USA can CONTROL the level of destruction and that destruction is coming, it's coming by War, Famine, Pestilence. A cultures last breaths are never good.

Many would say America faces the same...

No, we have food and water, we are...changing too, our economic system needs work, our social changes are at the least tumultuous... be we are a nation in the end of science, revolution, chaos... sure, but we have food and water, our adolescence wont end in suicide

In the West we are not by % attached to a set of beliefs that will no longer work, our puberty was slow and controlled, The ME honestly is that region that dropped out of HS started doing drugs got a girl pregnant and has an arrest record.

No matter what it does it's going to commit suicide, over dose or end up incarcerated

The oil is the equivalent of a parent who keeps giving their troubled child money in hopes it straightens out, our little wars have been the fights where you get the child to make promises it then doesn't keep, the Nuclear issue IS absolutely adults arguing with a teen in regards to having a gun, we let one child Israel have one and say no to the other hypocritical... left alone Israel probably is the kid who can be trusted, but Israel happens to be the kid who lives in gang territory and will screw up because it's threatened.

This doesn't end well.

Controlling who and how many get hurt is our best option, if we don't people through out the neighborhood will take some stray bullets

It should be the LAST time the citizens of neighborhood Earth call the cops (America) in and BOTH sides need to be dealt with, Some members of the Islam crips need to go to jail, Israel needs to loose it's gun rights

But this is a job for the cops

left alone there will be a gang war, a lot more innocents will die that way.

You cant fix the world.

Attempting to instantaneously resolve something that can only happen in its own time is a recipe for disaster. There is no fast forward button on cultures.

The middle east has many problems but meddling by the west wont make any of them better. It has already probably made it all a good deal worse. Inviting a conflict so ruinous it would lead to a total collapse of our own freedoms and probably nuclear genocide isn't really the way to go.

These issues will still be rumbling away in one form or another when you are old. Given the toxic mixture of sectarianism, racism and territorial dispute in the region a continued low intensity conflict is best case.

India needs no help from anybody. In time they will address their poverty issues in the same way Britain did. Life of the offspring of the lower classes on the streets of Georgian and later Victorian Britain wasn't much fun either. The 'aid' we provide india is as much a sign of our grovelling fear for our future prospects as anything. A pathetic attempt to buy favours with a future superpower, very sad.

We should help where asked, defend our strategic interests (because principles wont keep the lights on) but otherwise just let rest of the world get on with it.

Originally posted by justwokeup
You cant fix the world.

Attempting to instantaneously resolve something that can only happen in its own time is a recipe for disaster. There is no fast forward button on cultures.

The middle east has many problems but meddling by the west wont make any of them better. It has already probably made it all a good deal worse. Inviting a conflict so ruinous it would lead to a total collapse of our own freedoms and probably nuclear genocide isn't really the way to go.

These issues will still be rumbling away in one form or another when you are old. Given the toxic mixture of sectarianism, racism and territorial dispute in the region a continued low intensity conflict is best case.

India needs no help from anybody. In time they will address their poverty issues in the same way Britain did. Life of the offspring of the lower classes on the streets of Georgian and later Victorian Britain wasn't much fun either. The 'aid' we provide india is as much a sign of our grovelling fear for our future prospects as anything. A pathetic attempt to buy favours with a future superpower, very sad.

We should help where asked, defend our strategic interests (because principles wont keep the lights on) but otherwise just let rest of the world get on with it.

edit on 25-9-2012 by justwokeup because: typo

Sure you can fix the world

But the West has failed as a parent

For better or worse we came of age sooner than much of the world, we had our moronic disputes in a time when the harm we could do was limited.

You could call the cold war...the Divorce for all intents and purposes

Mom and Dad US and Russia split, they argued over how to raise the kids, how to handle money, who got to keep what property...

and the kids are now screwed up, some weren't fed properly, several have guns, and they are close to making serious mistakes...

We had a responsibility, so do some of the East Asian Nations...

We failed and we are in fact causative in all this

It has to be fixed if we don't the results will be tragic

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Yeah....i've been an advocate of Peace and Intelligence now for many years......

.....never seems to work though... I struggle finding either quality in 99% of people.

But you are full of peace and intelligence....right??

Got it.



Peace

Even this conversation is just...

Mom and Dad arguing and doing NOTHING while the kids are out doing dope and getting ready to get in huge Felony trouble...

Which sibling gets in trouble?

Who is right and who is wrong?

Keep giving allowance cut them off?

We suck, we suck so bad it isn't even funny... TOUGH LOVE for ALL SIDES all ADULTS involved in agreement so that the kids UNDERSTAND Mom and Dad will not be divided on the important issues.

Know what i'm saying?

When the kids fight over what to watch on tv some parents take sides to win the childrens favor... those kids ALWAYS grow up to be real jerk offs.

Other parents take away the Tv and lock them in their room until they agree to shut up and behave.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Yeah....i've been an advocate of Peace and Intelligence now for many years......

.....never seems to work though... I struggle finding either quality in 99% of people.

But you are full of peace and intelligence....right??

Got it.

Peace

edit on 25-9-2012 by operation mindcrime because: (no reason given)

Look, as per the example i'm using

You can "be peaceful" but still need to use force.

How exactly do you get a gun from an enraged teen... you might have to be sneaky and steal it, likely it wont work, you might have to call the cops and your kid will get stun gunned, maybe shot... (in this case I refer to Israel) (just to be fair)

Is it hypocritical (but dad has a gun) yeah but dad almost got himself killed more than once and now more mature is working that out... you, your a paranoid kid and we don't want to repeat our mistakes...

Sometimes you have to kick doors in, one of your kids is part of a cult the other one wants to kill him... you better do something

reply to post by penninja


Dude...seriously...what hell are you talking about?

I'm really trying to understand your equation here.... Are you saying that the "mom" and "dad" of this world are Russia and the good ol' USofA?

They have the right to step in and "spank" every other country that doesn't behave?

Is that it?

Peace

reply to post by penninja


Mum and dad have a history of child abuse and of putting each other in the hospital. Not to mention their own health is far from looking Rosy due to old age and addictions.

While acknowledging our responsibility for some of the damage (some of it inflicted through pillage, some as collateral damage in conflict and some accidentally despite pure intentions) we have neither the wisdom, moral authority or capacity to impose a fix.

I dont enjoy the situation, i just realise it for what it is.

I think none have understood the real problem and how deep it is:
The problem is everyone thinks to be right, everyone thinks to be the owner of the truth and try to impose this "truth" into others that think the same and are trying to do the same. Its one of the biggest paradoxes I ever came across with.
I don't know the solution, I only know that this is the problem. And this "truth" can be applied to anything: they way one live, the way one think, the god one prays to, the way one pray to such a god...

I also know that a WWIII its inevitable at this point. Toby(that's how I call "the men behind the courtains, ruling the world), as done his homework, the pieces are almost all positioned, only a very very few to be positioned and then all of these pieces will move at once, and you guess what happens? Yup TS is gonna HTF. In a couple months we all will be dead or dying.

Hang on to your chairs.
You think you know what horror is?
You think you know how much one can suffer?
You think you know how cruel an evil man can be?
You think you know the real meaning of suffering?

Think twice buddy... think twice...
I live in a country where children dying of starvation is already a routine, where justice is a joke and corruption is upon us in every single point of our "government". Even so, I have no idea how tough these coming times will be.
Then a smart a$$ come around and puke out:
"I've been in anything-kistan, fighting, I saw war!"
Well buddy, where I live, there's a non-declared civil war going on for decades now. Drug dealers rule this country and its not uncommon to see burnt bodies in the top of the hills, fire fights in a daily basis, so I know what war is too.

Of course I'm relativelly confortable, living a mid-class life a little bit distant from this reality. Even so, things are gonna get BAD, and I mean REAL BAD

"Lets invade all the middle east and get it over with"?

Let's not. Let's instead teach everyone in the world how to bake bread. Time better spent.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by penninja

 

Dude...seriously...what hell are you talking about?

I'm really trying to understand your equation here.... Are you saying that the "mom" and "dad" of this world are Russia and the good ol' USofA?

They have the right to step in and "spank" every other country that doesn't behave?

Is that it?

Peace

YES. Why not..

My Grandad was bought up in India where they had this practice called Sutti. Basically, if the husband dies the wife would be tied to his dead body and burnt to death...as was her penance for being married. The crowd around the death fire used to scream and wail to stop the English hearing the screams of the wife being burned alive.

So HELL YEAH....What was that...Oh...you have some really evil wierd practice in your society....you burn the wife while shes alive....Serious???....Well take some of that BLAM....and a little of that SLAP!!! and a few of these AGGGHHHH!!!.. Thats right...now sort yourselves out.

English Empire MK2 is whats needed

Originally posted by penninja
You can "be peaceful" but still need to use force.

peace (ps)
n.
1. The absence of war or other hostilities.

Look, I have nothing better to do right now I'm going go with your little equation game....

How exactly do you get a gun from an enraged teen...

If you have lost contact with your kid to such an extend that you find yourself in this situation you really should be questioning your parenting skills.

you might have to be sneaky and steal it, likely it wont work, you might have to call the cops and your kid will get stun gunned, maybe shot... (in this case I refer to Israel) (just to be fair)

Not sure what you mean here. Is Israel the enraged kid or the cop?

Is it hypocritical (but dad has a gun) yeah but dad almost got himself killed more than once and now more mature is working that out... you, your a paranoid kid and we don't want to repeat our mistakes...

So....because America has had soooo much experience with war the last 236 years you want to tell the middle east not to repeat the same mistakes..... (a region that has been civilised for over 5500 years now). Okay, just checking.

Sometimes you have to kick doors in

And sometimes you don't.

one of your kids is part of a cult the other one wants to kill him... you better do something

So we should invade America and spank them?!? Or Israel?? Or.....??

This a confusing comparison dude. Can't we pick something else?

Peace (pax)

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by penninja

 

Dude...seriously...what hell are you talking about?

I'm really trying to understand your equation here.... Are you saying that the "mom" and "dad" of this world are Russia and the good ol' USofA?

They have the right to step in and "spank" every other country that doesn't behave?

Is that it?

Peace

I would relate USA and RUSSIA as the worlds parents for the last 60 or more years yes.

WE divided the world, virtually every nation was under the control/dominance/ economic DEPENDENCE of those 2 Nations, you could say there were a handful of other adults.... (Nations that Modernized/matured first) China is at least now an Adult, England, France, japan, Germany

And the rest of the world is playing by the lessons we taught and we squabbled, and we were petty and we were NOT as a 1st world... UNITED in raising children, nations that are socially and technologically in many cases hundreds of years behind us

Neither Israel or Iran should ever have a gun (nukes) we are DIVIDED so they learn division is okay, we take sides so now they play one parent against the other

Okay, we have a RESPONSIBILITY

We gave Israel nukes, Russia and china help the other side...

As we now adults... have suffered Chernobyl, Fukushima, used those bombs, we now... Germany and Japan are eliminating Nuclear power, Russia and America are reducing stockpiles, our economies are moving TOGETHER

Iran and Nukes? WHY? Are we being good leaders to allow that, is it safe?

It is a perfect Analogy

Mom and Dad smoke so you let your kids smoke even after or as you try to quit?

Mom says it's okay dad says it's not... so the kid will smoke.

The first world needs to be completely UNITED in not allowing the same mistakes to be made...

Why? Maturity of culture

Us and Russia fought over philosophy it would have been easy for things to go hot...but our debates were mature they were over Money and Social systems of governance. VERY Analogous to parents fighting in a home in regards to how things will be done.

THIS

Is religion and territory

The equivalent of... Who gets the bigger bedroom and you stepped on my sneakers and they take is too seriously, like children, they IMITATE us and take sides but over nonsense, it is a moment every parent faces when you see the reflection of yourself in your children

and YES...WE MADE THEM BOTH

We funded them, we advised them, we played sides between us, we bought the Oil and gave them the power, we taught them how to use guns

ON EVERY LEVEL ISRAEL AND ISLAM ARE THE SCREWED UP CHILDREN OF THE USA AND RUSSIA

Originally posted by penninja
I would relate USA and RUSSIA as the worlds parents for the last 60 or more years yes.

You do realise it wasn't Russia (mind the caps!!) but the Soviet Union, right?

And where are they now?

America is doing a pretty good job at running itself into the ground at the moment.

So where does that leave us helpless children?

I think we'll manage, thank you very much.

Peace

How exactly do you get a gun from an enraged teen...

If you have lost contact with your kid to such an extend that you find yourself in this situation you really should be questioning your parenting skills.

Amen brother... we should, but then what walk away or fix it somehow?

Not sure what you mean here. Is Israel the enraged kid or the cop?

LOL Thought that point wld be clear, child, spoiled privileged pissed off child

Is it hypocritical (but dad has a gun) yeah but dad almost got himself killed more than once and now more mature is working that out... you, your a paranoid kid and we don't want to repeat our mistakes...

So....because America has had soooo much experience with war the last 236 years you want to tell the middle east not to repeat the same mistakes..... (a region that has been civilised for over 5500 years now). Okay, just checking.

NO... not alone, what i'm saying is.... Russia and The USA are playing the same exact game... screwing with the kids to get at one another, The World should be UNITED on this issue, but to me it's just like a divorce the kids got dragged into... America going it alone is one parent saying yes and another no and that can never work

And sometimes you don't.

agreed, but these are seriously troubled youths so to speak, they are in severe danger

So we should invade America and spank them?!? Or Israel?? Or.....??

Ahhhhh... well the problem here is in real life when parents are abusive there is something higher than them LAW to intervene... in our world there is the UN but it is... feeble. That is the REAL, mom and dad are not very good examples.... should us and Russia perhaps be spanked? For even playing this game with the kids... YES, we suck... as "adults" we wouldn't need war, sanctions... the world should sanction Us and Russia. None of this would be happening if we weren't making the kids take sides...

Unfortunatley since there is no body to punish us... we need to Grow the hell up and fast

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

Originally posted by penninja
I would relate USA and RUSSIA as the worlds parents for the last 60 or more years yes.

You do realise it wasn't Russia (mind the caps!!) but the Soviet Union, right?

And where are they now?

America is doing a pretty good job at running itself into the ground at the moment.

So where does that leave us helpless children?

I think we'll manage, thank you very much.

Peace

edit on 25-9-2012 by operation mindcrime because: (no reason given)

LOL again I have to use the Analogy

So Mom moved on and got a new life

and so did Dad...

and now the kids THEY CREATED should just "deal with it"

This is why our society sucks too, why kids die every day in America...

Higher species raise their young, it seems the Modern world has abandoned the concept across the spectrum from micro (individual parents) to macro (Nation States)

In the end when it goes down... who will be held accountable in regards to who bought them the guns?... "It wasn't us...we restructured" lol

All i'm saying when said and done is:

"WE created these monsters" WE being us and "the ex Soviet Union"

There will be a price to be paid one way or another

reply to post by penninja


Maybe you should try and leave them alone for a while....you know...let them figure it out for themselfs. Who knows??

Maybe America should take a long vacation from saving the world and focus on it's own problems.

Experience has tought us not all invasions are for the better.

just saying..

Peace